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10-05.-2008, 09:41 AM
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#1 |
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Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news
You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. -- Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
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10-05.-2008, 09:53 AM
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#2 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 9, 5:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. Old news. Look at the dateline on this SJ Merc article: http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295 |
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10-05.-2008, 09:56 AM
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#3 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 9, 5:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > > -- > Ryan Cousineau That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a premeditated type candidate. Tberk |
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10-05.-2008, 10:04 PM
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#4 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 9, 6:56*pm, TBerk <bayareab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 5:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > > > -- > > Ryan Cousineau > > That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a > premeditated type candidate. > > Tberk I do too but contrary to the report, I doubt he will do any time in jail. Why did he fall asleep? Any word on that? |
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10-05.-2008, 11:26 PM
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#5 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 10, 1:56*am, TBerk <bayareab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 9, 5:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > > > -- > > Ryan Cousineau > > That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a > premeditated type candidate. > > Tberk The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve any time... Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. Andre Jute http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/...%20CYCLING.html |
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11-05.-2008, 01:20 AM
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#6 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
In article
<3ed17427-6212-4c08-b5a9-7903661a7db5@b9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, Robert Chung <rechung@gmail.com> wrote: > On May 9, 5:41 pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote: > > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > > Old news. Look at the dateline on this SJ Merc article: > http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295 Oops. I hadn't seen it reported previously. -- Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
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11-05.-2008, 01:22 AM
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#7 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
In article
<de0e78e2-75cb-4421-a811-5bc57c5067e8@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote: > On May 10, 1:56*am, TBerk <bayareab...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On May 9, 5:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > > > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > > > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > > > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > > > > > -- > > > Ryan Cousineau > > > > That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a > > premeditated type candidate. > > > > Tberk > > The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence > seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep > behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the > sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? > > And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the > sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve > any time... > > Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. It's worth comparing it to the sentences in other negligent-death cases that don't involve cars or bicycles. The sentences are always pretty light compared to something like manslaughter. The element of intentionality is important in sentencing, -- Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
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11-05.-2008, 01:48 AM
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#8 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 10, 9:20 am, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Old news. Look at the dateline on this SJ Merc article: > >http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_8906295 > > Oops. I hadn't seen it reported previously. It was reported locally. Cyclingnews.com picked it up a month late. |
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11-05.-2008, 05:04 AM
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#9 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news >>> You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping >>> policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely >>> charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. >> That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a >> premeditated type candidate. > The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence > seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep > behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the > sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? > And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the > sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve > any time... > Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. Such comments don't help the relationship between bicyclists and police in which we hope to ride. The reason a harsh sentence may not be given the driver is that major fault lies with supervisors and policy they enforce. Documented and reviewed is that these officers serve consecutive 12-hour shifts. If this were Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo, supervisory culpability would not be considered, but we are a bit more civilized in Santa Clara County than that. Jobst Brandt |
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11-05.-2008, 06:26 AM
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#10 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 10, 9:04*pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote: > > *http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > >>> You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > >>> policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > >>> charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > >> That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a > >> premeditated type candidate. > > The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence > > seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep > > behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the > > sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? > > And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the > > sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve > > any time... > > Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. > > Such comments don't help the relationship between bicyclists and > police in which we hope to ride. *The reason a harsh sentence may not > be given the driver is that major fault lies with supervisors and > policy they enforce. *Documented and reviewed is that these officers > serve consecutive 12-hour shifts. *If this were Abu Ghraib or > Guantanamo, supervisory culpability would not be considered, but we > are a bit more civilized in Santa Clara County than that. > > Jobst Brandt I wasn't aware that the RBT charter limits comments to those "helpful" in Santa Clara County politics. I certaintly hope no one in the families and other loved ones of the dead and injured cyclists families reads your cynical attitude to their loss. Nor was I calling for "harsh" sentences. I was observing that a two year sentence for a negligent murder, if served, would be lenient. A suspended sentence doesn't even qualify as a slap on the wrist. Nor am I impressed with your attempt to blame the supervisors. The policeman who killed those drivers should take responsibility for his actions; he could have slept in the stationhouse until he was fit to drive. If this policeman's superiors are culpable, they should be in the dock with him under criminal charges. And we would like to hear from the politicians, apparently your pals, that disciplinary action is taken against them for their poor judgement. There was a time when a policeman was held to a higher standard than the other criminals on American streets. Two innocent men are dead, and you, Jobst Brandt, want to play politics. That's contemptible. What's more, if cyclists trade away the lives of two of their own for no greater gain than the vague wishful nothingness of "the relationship between bicyclists and police in which we hope to ride", you will be seen as weak and powerless and treated with the contempt you deserve. You don't earn respect by snivelling and selling out. Andre Jute Disappointed |
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11-05.-2008, 09:24 AM
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#11 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
In article
<de0e78e2-75cb-4421-a811-5bc57c5067e8@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote: > On May 10, 1:56*am, TBerk <bayareab...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > On May 9, 5:41*pm, Ryan Cousineau <rcous...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > > > > You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > > > policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely > > > charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > > > > > -- > > > Ryan Cousineau > > > > That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a > > premeditated type candidate. > > > > Tberk > > The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence > seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep > behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the > sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? > > And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the > sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve > any time... > > Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. We have to wait for the outcome of the civil action. I was talking to a policeman who said that he once crossed the threshold of a residence without an invitation, probable cause, or a warrant and the city paid of to the tune of $20000 without argument. Nor did he do anything actionable in the residence to compound his transgression. -- Michael Press |
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11-05.-2008, 09:29 AM
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#12 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
In article
<c0eb793e-c853-45b9-acc1-e9828762cebd@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, Andre Jute <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote: > Nor was I calling for "harsh" sentences. I was observing that a two > year sentence for a negligent murder, if served, would be lenient. A > suspended sentence doesn't even qualify as a slap on the wrist. It would if you had to serve it. Do you know how many rights you have to sign away when you serve a supervised probation? For instance, police may enter your residence without a warrant. -- Michael Press |
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11-05.-2008, 11:25 AM
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#13 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
Andre Jute wrote:
> On May 10, 9:04 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote: >> Andre Jute wrote: >> >> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news >> >>>>> You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping >>>>> policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. Likely >>>>> charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. >>>> That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a >>>> premeditated type candidate. >>> The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence >>> seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep >>> behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the >>> sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? >>> And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the >>> sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve >>> any time... >>> Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. >> Such comments don't help the relationship between bicyclists and >> police in which we hope to ride. The reason a harsh sentence may not >> be given the driver is that major fault lies with supervisors and >> policy they enforce. Documented and reviewed is that these officers >> serve consecutive 12-hour shifts. If this were Abu Ghraib or >> Guantanamo, supervisory culpability would not be considered, but we >> are a bit more civilized in Santa Clara County than that. >> >> Jobst Brandt > > I wasn't aware that the RBT charter limits comments to those "helpful" > in Santa Clara County politics. > > I certaintly hope no one in the families and other loved ones of the > dead and injured cyclists families reads your cynical attitude to > their loss. > > Nor was I calling for "harsh" sentences. I was observing that a two > year sentence for a negligent murder, if served, would be lenient. A > suspended sentence doesn't even qualify as a slap on the wrist. > > Nor am I impressed with your attempt to blame the supervisors. The > policeman who killed those drivers should take responsibility for his > actions; he could have slept in the stationhouse until he was fit to > drive.[...] Sleeping on the job is grounds for both immediate termination and denial of unemployment benefits in the US. The deputy may well have been faced with the choice of working overtired or losing his livelihood. Note that in US hospital, it is routine to make medical interns work 24 to 36 hour shifts, yet management is never held criminally liable when mistakes are made due to fatigue. (Of course, the US medical system is rotten at the core, but that is another subject.) -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful |
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11-05.-2008, 12:10 PM
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#14 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
On May 10, 7:24 pm, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> I was talking to a policeman who said that he once > crossed the threshold of a residence without an > invitation, probable cause, or a warrant and the > city paid of to the tune of $20000 without argument. > Nor did he do anything actionable in the residence > to compound his transgression. An armed man coming into my house without legal reason doesn't need compounding to be actionable. The role of peace officer comes with responsibility. |
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11-05.-2008, 02:30 PM
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#15 |
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Re: Charges rec'd in death of 2 NorCal cyclists
>Such comments don't help the relationship between bicyclists and
> police in which we hope to ride. The reason a harsh sentence may not > be given the driver is that major fault lies with supervisors and > policy they enforce. Documented and reviewed is that these officers > serve consecutive 12-hour shifts. If this were Abu Ghraib or > Guantanamo, supervisory culpability would not be considered, but we > are a bit more civilized in Santa Clara County than that. > > Jobst Brandt >>I wasn't aware that the RBT charter limits comments to those "helpful" >>in Santa Clara County politics. >>I certaintly hope no one in the families and other loved ones of the >>dead and injured cyclists families reads your cynical attitude to >>their loss. Please identify the "cynical attitude" where Jobst showed disrespect to the families of those involved in this tragedy. You don't have to pass the AP english comprehension exam to recognize that Jobst was pointing out that blame might lie in multiple places, not just with the police officer who ran the cyclists down. --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com "Andre Jute" <fiultra1@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c0eb793e-c853-45b9-acc1-e9828762cebd@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com... On May 10, 9:04 pm, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote: > Andre Jute wrote: > > http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php...may08/may10news > > >>> You will remember this as the incident when the (literal) sleeping > >>> policeman mowed down two cyclists on the other side of the road. > >>> Likely > >>> charge against the county deputy would be vehicular manslaughter. > >> That would seem the appropriate charge. He is likely not a > >> premeditated type candidate. > > The two years mentioned elsewhere in this thread as a likely sentence > > seems to me low for a case where someone by negligently going to sleep > > behind the wheel killed two people and injured another. Would the > > sentence be per death and injury, and run consecutively? > > And now we're told by Ryan, presumably from experience, that the > > sombambulist driver -- a policeman no less! -- is not likely to serve > > any time... > > Looks to me like a cyclist's life is held pretty cheap. > > Such comments don't help the relationship between bicyclists and > police in which we hope to ride. The reason a harsh sentence may not > be given the driver is that major fault lies with supervisors and > policy they enforce. Documented and reviewed is that these officers > serve consecutive 12-hour shifts. If this were Abu Ghraib or > Guantanamo, supervisory culpability would not be considered, but we > are a bit more civilized in Santa Clara County than that. > > Jobst Brandt I wasn't aware that the RBT charter limits comments to those "helpful" in Santa Clara County politics. I certaintly hope no one in the families and other loved ones of the dead and injured cyclists families reads your cynical attitude to their loss. Nor was I calling for "harsh" sentences. I was observing that a two year sentence for a negligent murder, if served, would be lenient. A suspended sentence doesn't even qualify as a slap on the wrist. Nor am I impressed with your attempt to blame the supervisors. The policeman who killed those drivers should take responsibility for his actions; he could have slept in the stationhouse until he was fit to drive. If this policeman's superiors are culpable, they should be in the dock with him under criminal charges. And we would like to hear from the politicians, apparently your pals, that disciplinary action is taken against them for their poor judgement. There was a time when a policeman was held to a higher standard than the other criminals on American streets. Two innocent men are dead, and you, Jobst Brandt, want to play politics. That's contemptible. What's more, if cyclists trade away the lives of two of their own for no greater gain than the vague wishful nothingness of "the relationship between bicyclists and police in which we hope to ride", you will be seen as weak and powerless and treated with the contempt you deserve. You don't earn respect by snivelling and selling out. Andre Jute Disappointed |
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