ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF

hizark21

ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).

It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

Kyle Legate

hizark21 wrote:
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

The spots are all filled. Who would the ASO kick out to make space for
Astana, and what excuse would they get?

Be realistic.

Donald Munro

hizark21 wrote:
>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter the
>> TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana to
>> meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring team
>> now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

Kyle Legate wrote:
> The spots are all filled. Who would the ASO kick out to make space for
> Astana, and what excuse would they get?

They could always engineer a positive test if a certain laboratory is
going to be doing the testing.

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
>It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
fact, it would probably hurt.

Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com

On Jun 3, 11:56*pm, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF. *The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
the yellow jersey.

Bob Schwartz

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>>
>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
> fact, it would probably hurt.

Indeed. Astana has pissed in the Tour's soup twice now.
They've earned this.

Bob Schwartz

hizark21

On Jun 4, 4:36*am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
> On Jun 3, 11:56*pm, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> > news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> > It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> > the TDF. *The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> > to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> > team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>
> Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
> contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
> are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
> Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
> the yellow jersey.

This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
reasassert it's governing role.

John Forrest Tomlinson

On Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:22:50 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
>actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
>cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
>reasassert it's governing role.

What does the UCI have to do with the Tour of France?

Bob Schwartz

hizark21 wrote:
> This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
> actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
> cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
> reasassert it's governing role.

Are you referring to the team that got a second chance
last year and responded by pissing in the soup again?
Oh yeah, this is a different team from last year.

I think ASO has made it clear that Astana can establish
that it is a different team by not pissing in anyone's
soup.

Bob Schwartz

Donald Munro

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> I think ASO has made it clear that Astana can establish that it is a
> different team by not pissing in anyone's soup.

Pea soup ?

ilanpsi@gmail.com

On Jun 4, 7:56*am, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>
> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
> the TDF. *The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.

I would assume that ASO would argue that the good showing of Astana
proves that they're doping. That's the type of reasoning you're seeing
from the ASO management.

Any argument about Astana ticking ASO off is specious, as Astana has
the right to participate, as a pro tour team. Even before the Pro
Tour, the top 15 rated teams were guaranteed a spot in the Tour de
France. Just another reason why the UCI is a necessary evil.

-ilan

Sandy

Dans le message de
news:ec3efae8-3f57-4d72-ad21-73c3bc999012@g16g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
> On Jun 4, 4:36 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com"
> <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 3, 11:56 pm, hizark21 <hizar...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF
>>> (http://www.cyclingnews.com/ news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news
>>> ).
>>
>>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant
>>> spring team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>>
>> Altho weird, as long as Bruyneel and Contador(true yellow jersey
>> contender but cloudy relationship with Operation Puerto, true or not)
>> are with Astana, ASO isn't going to let them in. ASO doesn't like
>> Bruyneel and the last thing ASO wants is another doping scandal with
>> the yellow jersey.
>
> This seems like clear case of guilt by association as opposed to
> actual evidence. Guilt by association has been very destructive to
> cycling. It's clear to me now that the UCI needs to act now and
> reasassert it's governing role.

There's no reason for ASO to do differently from sponsors, like Festina,
T-Mobile and Phonak. It's a commercial decision, not a criminal proceeding.
You could also call it prudence.

What has me more excited [sardonic smile] is the lack of doping in the
cleanest of the majors - the Giro. My goodness, have those Italians got it
right! Just a case of one horny dude and a toothpaste tube.[back to neutral]
--
The problem with people who have
no vices is that generally you can
be pretty sure they're going to have
some pretty annoying virtues.
- Elizabeth Taylor

Donald Munro

Bob Schwartz wrote:
>> I think ASO has made it clear that Astana can establish that it is a
>> different team by not pissing in anyone's soup.

Donald Munro wrote:
> Pea soup ?

http://news.sawf.org/Lifestyle/30794.aspx

Mike Jacoubowsky

>> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
>> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
>> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
>> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
>> fact, it would probably hurt.
>
> Indeed. Astana has pissed in the Tour's soup twice now.
> They've earned this.

And yet some believe that was possibly the cleanest Giro in a very long
time, specifically because Astana was there, which put everything under a
microscope.

The ASO just isn't making sense. Not so much in the exclusion of Astana, but
rather their atttitude about positive doping tests. They still consider it a
failure when they find someone testing positive, instead of evidence that
they can find and punish those doping. What was that latest thing they were
saying? That they're going to specifically target certain athletes because
of what happened last year, instead of randomized controls? I don't get it.
The randomized controls found Rasmussen didn't they? And Vino? And
Keschekin? But the fact that those guys were doping and caught is an
indication that doping controls aren't working?

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Bob Schwartz" <bob.schwartz@REMOVEsbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ujx1k.680$L_.1@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com...
> John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:56:58 -0700 (PDT), hizark21 <hizark21@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ASO still refusing to admit Astana in TDF (http://www.cyclingnews.com/
>>> news.php?id=news/2008/jun08/jun04news ).
>>>
>>> It's simply ridiculous that the ASO is refusing to let Astana enter
>>> the TDF. The ASO should have put forth a set of condtions for Astana
>>> to meet if they wished to enter the TDF. Astana is the dominant spring
>>> team now and they deserve to ride in the TDF.
>>
>> I'm not saying I agree with ASO's decisions, but you don't get it.
>> They told Astana they'll let them in after a year with no scandals.
>> It's clear. Astana could sweep the top ten in every race they get
>> into, and that wouldn't help then get into the Tour of France. In
>> fact, it would probably hurt.
>
> Indeed. Astana has pissed in the Tour's soup twice now.
> They've earned this.
>
> Bob Schwartz
>