Judging cyclists speed

Roger Thorpe

Yesterday evening, on my way home intending to turn right, was passed
(a bit closely) by a car, glanced over my shoulder and clocked another
cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out my
arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had he
been closer I would have poked his eye out.
Lesson learned.
If you were that cyclist then take 50 points for anticipation and
leaving me an extra bit of clearance.
Minus 50 points to me for not looking twice.
Roger Thorpe

POHB

On 4 Jun, 11:59, Roger Thorpe <myinitial.mysrn...@warwick.ac.uk>
wrote:
> Yesterday evening, on my way home *intending to turn *right, was passed
> (a bit closely) by a car, glanced over my shoulder and clocked another
> cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out my
> arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had he
> been closer I would have poked his eye out.
> Lesson learned.
> If you were that cyclist then take 50 points for anticipation and
> leaving me an extra bit of clearance.
> Minus 50 points to me for not looking twice.

Similar for me a while back, except it was a motorbike and I whacked
him with my signalling arm. Both of us wobbled a bit but AFAIK no
harm done. I reckon anyone who overtakes close enough to get whacked
when I stick my arm out is passing too close, but it was still
embarrasing.

Peter Pie Eater

> cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out my
> arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had he
> been closer I would have poked his eye out.

I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist and give them as
wide a berth as possible.

Out of interest, who is legally be to blame if you do hit an overtaking
vehicle as you indicate? Surely it's the responsibility of the
overtaking vehicle to make sure there is enough room?

Henry Lockwood

On 4 Jun, 16:42, Peter Pie Eater <M8R-0ku...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> > cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out my
> > arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had he
> > been closer I would have poked his eye out.
>
> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist and give them as
> wide a berth as possible.
>
> Out of interest, who is legally be to blame if you do hit an overtaking
> vehicle as you indicate? Surely it's the responsibility of the
> overtaking vehicle to make sure there is enough room?

From the Highway Code:

"163
Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should not get
too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake."

This implies that some (significant?) portion of fault would be with
the overtaking road user.

Martin

Peter Pie Eater wrote:
>
>> cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out my
>> arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had he
>> been closer I would have poked his eye out.
>
> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist and give them as
> wide a berth as possible.
>
> Out of interest, who is legally be to blame if you do hit an overtaking
> vehicle as you indicate? Surely it's the responsibility of the
> overtaking vehicle to make sure there is enough room?

There was a court case, I think it was last year, where someone in a van
hit a cyclist. The judge said that the van was passing the cyclist too
closely when the van hit, and the driver did not leave enough room in
case the cyclist wobbled.
The judge said that anyone passing a cyclist closer than something like
85cm, is passing far too close.
Thus if a cyclist can reach out and touch a passing car, then that car
is far too close to the cyclist.

Anyway, you should always look before indicating, you never know what
could be coming up behind you.

Colin McKenzie

Martin wrote:
> Peter Pie Eater wrote:
>>Roger Thorpe <myinitial.mysrn...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out
>>> my arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had
>>> he been closer I would have poked his eye out.
>> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist and give them as
>> wide a berth as possible.

>> Out of interest, who is legally be to blame if you do hit an
>> overtaking vehicle as you indicate? Surely it's the responsibility of
>> the overtaking vehicle to make sure there is enough room?
>
> There was a court case, I think it was last year, where someone in a van
> hit a cyclist. The judge said that the van was passing the cyclist too
> closely when the van hit, and the driver did not leave enough room in
> case the cyclist wobbled.
> The judge said that anyone passing a cyclist closer than something like
> 85cm, is passing far too close.

This is the figure I work with too: arm's length definitely too close,
1 metre acceptable minimum. But many cyclists seem to be happy with
less, and many drivers are happy to oblige, especially if their only
alternative is to slow down.

> Anyway, you should always look before indicating, you never know what
> could be coming up behind you.

Yes. I use the possibility of whacking someone in the face to make
trainees laugh and hopefully remember the need to look behind (on the
same side) before signalling.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

vernon

"Peter Pie Eater" <M8R-0ku37n@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:Meqdnf35pcttKtvVnZ2dnUVZ8umdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>> cyclist about 15 metres behind me. A second or so later I stuck out my
>> arm to indicate, and to my surprise there he was alongside me. Had he
>> been closer I would have poked his eye out.
>
> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist and give them as
> wide a berth as possible.
>
> Out of interest, who is legally be to blame if you do hit an overtaking
> vehicle as you indicate? Surely it's the responsibility of the overtaking
> vehicle to make sure there is enough room?

I'd have thought that the signaller needs to check before signalling then
the issue wouldn't arise.

Roger Thorpe

vernon wrote:

> I'd have thought that the signaller needs to check before signalling then
> the issue wouldn't arise.
>
>
Well yes, I think so too, but this is actually what I did. There were
two things that surprised me:
If I misjudged this cyclists speed by 10 - 15 mph then why don't I make
the same mistake with cars? could it be that car speeds are less
variable or do I judge by road noise?
A lot of what I do seems to be subconscious. I really couldn't say for
sure, but what I *think* I do is to check once then check again as I
signal. Maybe if it's a car behind me I check twice then again as I
signal. It's surprising how these things become automatic after thirty
years as an adult cyclist.
There's another thing too... I'm not at all used to being overtaken by
other riders maybe it's time to get used to that.
Roger Thorpe

POHB

On 4 Jun, 16:42, Peter Pie Eater <M8R-0ku...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist

I guess you cycle in a sparsely populated area? If everyone did that
around here it would be a constant cacophony of ringing, a bit like
when Crocodile Dundee says G'day to everyone he meets on the street in
New York.

Rob Morley

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:45:38 +0100
Martin <martin.dann@virgin.net> wrote:

> Thus if a cyclist can reach out and touch a passing car, then that
> car is far too close to the cyclist.
>
"If you weren't too close then I couldn't have kicked your car, tosser."
:-)

Peter Pie Eater

Roger Thorpe wrote:

> two things that surprised me:
> If I misjudged this cyclists speed by 10 - 15 mph then why don't I make
> the same mistake with cars? could it be that car speeds are less
> variable or do I judge by road noise?


I think cyclists speeds are generally a lot more variable. Car drivers
tend to stick to the speed limit (or the seemingly obligitory 10% over
the speed limit).

When I'm overtaking another cyclist, I tend to crank up my speed for the
duration of the overtaking manouvre so as not to spend too long riding
side by side. Is it possible that this is what happened with you. You
looked behind, he upped his speed by 10mph and you hadn't realised it.

TerryJ

> harm done. I reckon anyone who overtakes close enough to get whacked
> when I stick my arm out is passing too close, but it was still
> embarrasing.

As I understand it in Spain passing closer than 1.5m is illegal
terry J

TerryJ

POHB wrote:
> On 4 Jun, 16:42, Peter Pie Eater <M8R-0ku...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist
>
> I guess you cycle in a sparsely populated area? If everyone did that
> around here it would be a constant cacophony of ringing, a bit like
> when Crocodile Dundee says G'day to everyone he meets on the street in
> New York.


I always shout 'on yer right' as I start to pass

Rob Morley

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:11:17 +0100
TerryJ <jonestl@breathe.com> wrote:

> POHB wrote:
> > On 4 Jun, 16:42, Peter Pie Eater <M8R-0ku...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> >> I always ring my bell when overtaking another cyclist
> >
> > I guess you cycle in a sparsely populated area? If everyone did
> > that around here it would be a constant cacophony of ringing, a bit
> > like when Crocodile Dundee says G'day to everyone he meets on the
> > street in New York.
>
>
> I always shout 'on yer right' as I start to pass

That works if they know what you're on about, otherwise it may confuse
them, cause them to veer as they look behind to see what's going on ...
I tend to take the stealth approach unless it's obviously a club rider,
in which case I probably wouldn't be overtaking anyway these days. :-(