Clipless Pedal Judgements

Tom Kunich

I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:

Look clipless - I've used these a great deal over 15 years. Strengths: they
provide a nice strong connection to the bike with a clear feel when you're
disconnected. Weaknesses: The cleats do not wear well. I get about 1000
miles on them because every time I stop I put a foot down and that cleat
will wear faster. Also you have to walk around toes-high using cleat covers
otherwise you cannot stand safely on a slippery surface such as tile in the
7-11 as you're getting a softdrink. And strangely enough, they stopped
making the best cleat covers. And now it also appears as if they've stopped
making the "real" Look pedal and changed over to the Keo which is sort of a
3/4 scale version of the old one. Including smaller cleats. Which are still
made out of the same plastic.

Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.

Crank Bros X-pedals: These are the cheapest and simplest of the pedal
systems I've used. They work well as long as everything is new. Strengths:
Simplicity. Lightness. Good price. Weaknesses: The cleat wears quite
rapidly - less than 1500 miles and you start bouncing out of the pedal. The
wear pattern of the is such that you would easily click out if your heal
turned inward while riding. While new they worked fine so it definitely is a
wear problem. Supposedly they have a newer and longer lasting cleat that
uses a different metal for the cleats. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
Another minor problem is that the X-pedals are a bit difficult to ride
without proper shoes. If you want to run up to the corner to mail a letter
or ride a couple of blocks to the grocery for something you have to put on
cycling shoes.

OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On Jun 16, 9:13*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:
>
> Look clipless - I've used these a great deal over 15 years. Strengths: they
> provide a nice strong connection to the bike with a clear feel when you're
> disconnected. Weaknesses: The cleats do not wear well. I get about 1000
> miles on them because every time I stop I put a foot down and that cleat
> will wear faster. Also you have to walk around toes-high using cleat covers
> otherwise you cannot stand safely on a slippery surface such as tile in the
> 7-11 as you're getting a softdrink. And strangely enough, they stopped
> making the best cleat covers. And now it also appears as if they've stopped
> making the "real" Look pedal and changed over to the Keo which is sort of a
> 3/4 scale version of the old one. Including smaller cleats. Which are still
> made out of the same plastic.
>
> Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
> I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
> just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
> pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
> soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
> floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.
>
> Crank Bros X-pedals: These are the cheapest and simplest of the pedal
> systems I've used. They work well as long as everything is new. Strengths:
> Simplicity. Lightness. Good price. Weaknesses: The cleat wears quite
> rapidly - less than 1500 miles and you start bouncing out of the pedal. The
> wear pattern of the is such that you would easily click out if your heal
> turned inward while riding. While new they worked fine so it definitely isa
> wear problem. Supposedly they have a newer and longer lasting cleat that
> uses a different metal for the cleats. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
> Another minor problem is that the X-pedals are a bit difficult to ride
> without proper shoes. If you want to run up to the corner to mail a letter
> or ride a couple of blocks to the grocery for something you have to put on
> cycling shoes.
>
> OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.

Try some Ultegra 6620's or Doo-race 77xx whatever the number is.
Cleats are much better for walking, wear better than Look, at least
the old Looks, too. They replaced the plastic 6610-style contact plate
with metal on the 6620's, don't know if the springs, which don't last
as well as I'd like with city riding (in, out, in, out) have been
improved or not. Release is easy, in can be a little sticky but not if
you do it right <g>. --D-y

riggodeezil@hotmail.com

On Jun 16, 10:13*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:
>
> Look clipless - I've used these a great deal over 15 years. Strengths: they
> provide a nice strong connection to the bike with a clear feel when you're
> disconnected. Weaknesses: The cleats do not wear well. I get about 1000
> miles on them because every time I stop I put a foot down and that cleat
> will wear faster. Also you have to walk around toes-high using cleat covers
> otherwise you cannot stand safely on a slippery surface such as tile in the
> 7-11 as you're getting a softdrink. And strangely enough, they stopped
> making the best cleat covers. And now it also appears as if they've stopped
> making the "real" Look pedal and changed over to the Keo which is sort of a
> 3/4 scale version of the old one. Including smaller cleats. Which are still
> made out of the same plastic.
>
> Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
> I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
> just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
> pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
> soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
> floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.
>
> Crank Bros X-pedals: These are the cheapest and simplest of the pedal
> systems I've used. They work well as long as everything is new. Strengths:
> Simplicity. Lightness. Good price. Weaknesses: The cleat wears quite
> rapidly - less than 1500 miles and you start bouncing out of the pedal. The
> wear pattern of the is such that you would easily click out if your heal
> turned inward while riding. While new they worked fine so it definitely isa
> wear problem. Supposedly they have a newer and longer lasting cleat that
> uses a different metal for the cleats. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
> Another minor problem is that the X-pedals are a bit difficult to ride
> without proper shoes. If you want to run up to the corner to mail a letter
> or ride a couple of blocks to the grocery for something you have to put on
> cycling shoes.
>
> OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.

I have tried SPD, SPD-R, SPD-SL, and Speedplay Frogs. Of these, I
prefer the SPD-SL. The plastic cleats do wear faster than the metal
ones but I really like the larger platform as compared to regular ol'
SPD. I am probably in the minority on this and will likely be
excoriated for admitting it but I kind of liked the short-lived SPD-
R. The platform was larger than the regular SPD and the metal cleats
seemed to wear less than do the SPD-SL ones.

If I go into 7-11 or some other such place for a refuel I just take my
shoes off and walk in with socks. Saves the cleats, the annoying
clack-clack-clack, and helps reduce the chances of my slipping onto
my pasty white ass in the midst of all the Slurpee drinkers and Big
Bite eaters.

Never tried any flavor of LOOK or Crank Bros. pedal systems but both
seem to be fairly ubiquitous.

joseph.santaniello@gmail.com

On Jun 17, 4:13*am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:
>
> Look clipless - I've used these a great deal over 15 years. Strengths: they
> provide a nice strong connection to the bike with a clear feel when you're
> disconnected. Weaknesses: The cleats do not wear well. I get about 1000
> miles on them because every time I stop I put a foot down and that cleat
> will wear faster. Also you have to walk around toes-high using cleat covers
> otherwise you cannot stand safely on a slippery surface such as tile in the
> 7-11 as you're getting a softdrink. And strangely enough, they stopped
> making the best cleat covers. And now it also appears as if they've stopped
> making the "real" Look pedal and changed over to the Keo which is sort of a
> 3/4 scale version of the old one. Including smaller cleats. Which are still
> made out of the same plastic.
>
> Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
> I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
> just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
> pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
> soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
> floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.
>
> Crank Bros X-pedals: These are the cheapest and simplest of the pedal
> systems I've used. They work well as long as everything is new. Strengths:
> Simplicity. Lightness. Good price. Weaknesses: The cleat wears quite
> rapidly - less than 1500 miles and you start bouncing out of the pedal. The
> wear pattern of the is such that you would easily click out if your heal
> turned inward while riding. While new they worked fine so it definitely isa
> wear problem. Supposedly they have a newer and longer lasting cleat that
> uses a different metal for the cleats. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
> Another minor problem is that the X-pedals are a bit difficult to ride
> without proper shoes. If you want to run up to the corner to mail a letter
> or ride a couple of blocks to the grocery for something you have to put on
> cycling shoes.
>
> OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.

I used to use Look, when that was the only game in town. Same likes
and dislikes as you. I use SPD on my mountain bike, and I really like
the stomp-n-go way they work, but the connection is too sloppy for my
tastes. I put up with is on the MTB because MTB rides are so all over
the place that I don't really notice the sloppieness. On the road I
use SPD-SL with the red no-float cleats. Nice positive engagement,
wide platform, and the outriggers on the cleats mean the on pedal feel
doesn't deteriorate from walking wear. They suck for walking in gas
stations and such, but I just take it easy to avoid slipping. Or
better yet, I avoid stopping!

Joseph

Qui si parla Campagnolo

On Jun 16, 8:13*pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:
>
> Look clipless - I've used these a great deal over 15 years. Strengths: they
> provide a nice strong connection to the bike with a clear feel when you're
> disconnected. Weaknesses: The cleats do not wear well. I get about 1000
> miles on them because every time I stop I put a foot down and that cleat
> will wear faster. Also you have to walk around toes-high using cleat covers
> otherwise you cannot stand safely on a slippery surface such as tile in the
> 7-11 as you're getting a softdrink. And strangely enough, they stopped
> making the best cleat covers. And now it also appears as if they've stopped
> making the "real" Look pedal and changed over to the Keo which is sort of a
> 3/4 scale version of the old one. Including smaller cleats. Which are still
> made out of the same plastic.
>
> Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
> I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
> just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
> pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
> soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
> floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.
>
> Crank Bros X-pedals: These are the cheapest and simplest of the pedal
> systems I've used. They work well as long as everything is new. Strengths:
> Simplicity. Lightness. Good price. Weaknesses: The cleat wears quite
> rapidly - less than 1500 miles and you start bouncing out of the pedal. The
> wear pattern of the is such that you would easily click out if your heal
> turned inward while riding. While new they worked fine so it definitely isa
> wear problem. Supposedly they have a newer and longer lasting cleat that
> uses a different metal for the cleats. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
> Another minor problem is that the X-pedals are a bit difficult to ride
> without proper shoes. If you want to run up to the corner to mail a letter
> or ride a couple of blocks to the grocery for something you have to put on
> cycling shoes.
>
> OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.

Speedplay Zero. Best pedal I have used. Double sided, very servicable,
light, great corner clearance, easy entry/exit. Adjustable float, plus
most adjustable cleat. Only 'other' is the cleats are expensive but
not surprising since all the 'mechanism' is really in the cleat, not
the pedal. Switched from Campagnolo Profit to these. Put the cleat in
the same place, no adjustment required.

Art Harris

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Speedplay Zero. Best pedal I have used. Double sided, very servicable,
> light, great corner clearance, easy entry/exit. Adjustable float, plus
> most adjustable cleat.
>

How are the cleats for walking?

I used Look for years, but now like SPD.

Art Harris

Qui si parla Campagnolo

On Jun 17, 7:27*am, Art Harris <n...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> > Speedplay Zero. Best pedal I have used. Double sided, very servicable,
> > light, great corner clearance, easy entry/exit. Adjustable float, plus
> > most adjustable cleat.
>
> How are the cleats for walking?
>
> I used Look for years, but now like SPD.
>
> Art Harris

Well, they are big-ish road cleats like all others but with a metal
plate, that you walk on. I think it is a mistake to choose road pedals
as to ease or difficulty or wear due to walking. No road cleat 'ought'
to bewalked on or at least minimized BUT SP does have a metal plate
that hits the ground first.

Peter Cole

Tom Kunich wrote:
> I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:
>

> OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.
>

SPD's, especially my beloved 747's. I only use dual-sided and
multi-release cleats, both on & off road. I have used Wellgo clones, but
the authentic Shimano are smoother in & out and much more durable.
Cleats last almost forever, even with a lot of hike a bike in gravel &
rocks. I never pull out and have never trapped a foot in a fall.

Tom Kunich

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote in message
news:47990cce-d768-4201-84b5-4f2136defa8b@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> Speedplay Zero. Best pedal I have used. Double sided, very servicable,
> light, great corner clearance, easy entry/exit.

My brother prefers Speedplay but he bought a new set of Zeros and couldn't
get into them. Eventually he sold them off but still uses Speedplay X
pedals.

Bill Sornson

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <peter@vecchios.com> wrote in message
> news:47990cce-d768-4201-84b5-4f2136defa8b@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> Speedplay Zero. Best pedal I have used. Double sided, very
>> servicable, light, great corner clearance, easy entry/exit.
>
> My brother prefers Speedplay but he bought a new set of Zeros and
> couldn't get into them. Eventually he sold them off but still uses
> Speedplay X pedals.

Did he change his cleats? Pretty sure the two platforms use different
mechanisms.

Andrew Price

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:13:39 -0700, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.
com> wrote:

[---]

>Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
>I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
>just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
>pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
>soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
>floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.

Try some SIDI shoes.

Bill Bushnell

Andrew Price <ajprice@free.fr> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:13:39 -0700, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.
> com> wrote:

> [---]

> >Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
> >I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along. Perhaps it's
> >just the pedals I have. Strengths: they don't seem any better than any other
> >pedal I've used. Weaknesses: even though I have an off-road shoe with deep
> >soles the cleats still stick up a little above them. This makes marks on
> >floors and also makes them quite slippery if you're not careful.

> Try some SIDI shoes.

You don't mention which SIDI shoes. The "Dominator" sole might be tall enough to
hide the SPD cleat, but it is as slippery as snot. I almost broke my leg once
when I stopped to relieve myself in a storm drain, not wanting to leave evidence
on the road. My shoe slipped on the dry metal grate and I came to a rest with my
thigh wedged into the curb opening, my lower leg nd foot dangling into the void.

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

Ryan Cousineau

In article <Q_mdndYasZZPgMrVnZ2dnUVZ_vWdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> I've not used a lot of clipless systems but here's my opinion:
>
> Look clipless - I've used these a great deal over 15 years. Strengths: they
> provide a nice strong connection to the bike with a clear feel when you're
> disconnected. Weaknesses: The cleats do not wear well.

> Shimano SPD - They just don't seem to provide a good connection in the one's
> I've used. I clip out all the time when I'm just riding along.

> Crank Bros X-pedals: These are the cheapest and simplest of the pedal
> systems I've used. They work well as long as everything is new. Strengths:
> Simplicity. Lightness. Good price. Weaknesses: The cleat wears quite
> rapidly - less than 1500 miles and you start bouncing out of the pedal. The
> wear pattern of the is such that you would easily click out if your heal
> turned inward while riding. While new they worked fine so it definitely is a
> wear problem. Supposedly they have a newer and longer lasting cleat that
> uses a different metal for the cleats. Hopefully this will fix that problem.
> Another minor problem is that the X-pedals are a bit difficult to ride
> without proper shoes. If you want to run up to the corner to mail a letter
> or ride a couple of blocks to the grocery for something you have to put on
> cycling shoes.
>
> OK - your turn to add pedals or to add or criticize my entries.

Hardly a coincidence given their popularity, but these are also the
three systems I have tried.

I started on SPDs, and they worked fine for me in almost all
circumstances. I still recommend them (and compatible clones) to anyone
as the default clipless choice, if only due to cost and availability.

I tried Looks next, mainly because I got some cleats and shoes cheap.
They were fine. I eventually decided that they had no advantages for me
over SPDs, and I couldn't walk in them, and the cleats wear fast. Since
I sometimes ride bikes to places and dismount at my destination, I felt
this was a huge pain.

Crank Brothers: first, I've tried two of the platformed pedals (Candy
and Smarty) as well as one of the Egg Beater types. The Candy/Smarty
design is much easier to ride on, to the extent that I have no qualms
about treating them as flat pedals and riding those bikes in normal
shoes. The Egg Beater-equipped bike takes a bit of care, and I find that
missing pedal entry on the Egg Beater can be consequential (as in, foot
rolls off pedal) in a way that is rare in other pedals. Also, Crank Bros
pedals have a rep for wearing shoe soles, which seems largely alleviated
by their plastic (and now metal) inserts that are meant to fit between
cleat and shoe.

It shouldn't matter, but when my SPD-using father caught sight of my Egg
Beaters, he was fascinated. The aesthetics of that pedal are very high.

Aside from those provisos, Crank Brothers pedals are, in my opinion,
very similar to SPDs, and I wouldn't recommend changing to them except
for one thing: I race cyclocross.

CX demands pedals where you ride through mud, stomp your feet through
mud, then jump on the pedals and get instant mud clearance and return to
normal operation. SPDs balk at this unreasonable treatment. Crank
Brothers pedals (and, apparently, Time ATACs) do not.

This is, in my opinion, an extraordinary requirement for a pedal.

However, I saw Peter disparaging walkable shoes down-thread, and I think
that's wildly misguided. The more I use walkable shoes, the more I like
walkable shoes, and the more I use my bikes in circumstances where
unwalkable shoes would be a pain. In short, I do a fair bit of
multi-modal commuting, including occasionally taking light rail part way
to local bike races, or little shopping trips, or whatever.

Walkable shoes mean these sorts of things are no-brainers: even my
stiff-soled Adidas Marathons are not too bad. In practice, I find that
just about the time when I think it would be too far to walk in walkable
shoes, it turns out I can get back on my bike and ride there. On the
other hand, unwalkable shoes mean that every staircase or smooth surface
between me and my destination is a terror.

On at least one occassion, walkable shoes even made my club ride easier:
a tiny chunk of our ride was closed to road traffic by some large
concrete barriers. The rest of the riders looked on in horror as I
jumped up onto a barrier carrying my bike and then hopped off on the
other side.

It's only in retrospect that I realized my compatriots could hardly
attempt same.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Qui si parla Campagnolo

On Jun 17, 8:43*am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in messagenews:47990cce-d768-4201-84b5-4f2136defa8b@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Speedplay Zero. Best pedal I have used. Double sided, very servicable,
> > light, great corner clearance, easy entry/exit.
>
> My brother prefers Speedplay but he bought a new set of Zeros and couldn't
> get into them. Eventually he sold them off but still uses Speedplay X
> pedals.

The plate and hence the cleat needs to be flat, flat. If it is bowed
at all it is hard to get into and really tough to get out of. Since
the pedal engages the spring in the cleat a bit differently than X
series, it is more critical.