Re: Killer Squirrel attack

carlfogel@comcast.net

On Jun 18, 7:54*pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo

Dear Mike,

Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

landotter

On Jun 19, 2:22*pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Jun 18, 7:54*pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.

I hope they had a little back board for the squirrel!

Dan O

On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>

Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.



> Dear Mike,
>
> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

still just me

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Dan O <danoverman@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.

You could have said it before too - facts are never inappropriate!

Carl Sundquist

"Dan O" <danoverman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0f9fb585-87b0-4c39-aed2-f05123f0d31f@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>>
>
> Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?

Werehatrack

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), carlfogel@comcast.net may
have said:

>On Jun 18, 7:54*pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>
>Dear Mike,
>
>Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
>detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Carl Fogel

When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Dan O

On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
> "Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0f9fb585-87b0-4c39-aed2-f05123f0d31f@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>
> > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
> pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
> hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
> downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?

You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?

Why couldn't the wheel continue to spin? And even if you did get...
um, an especially stout squirrel in the spokes, somehow managing to
lock the wheel, wouldn't that just pitch you over the bars instead of
smack into the ground?

Me

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), carlfogel@comcast.net may
> have said:
>
>> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>> Dear Mike,
>>
>> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
>> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
>
> When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
> wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?
>

Or, just get squirrel inhibitor(tm) wheels! With their closely-spaced
spokes, there isn't enough space for squirrels to get lodged! Low
spoke-count wheels such as these Mavic Krysiums seem designed to catch
squirrels and fling them up against the fork. Hmmm...wonder when some
sleazy lawyer will figure out that his new niche lies in suing
manufacturers of squirrel-catcher wheels when these crashes happen?

Cal

sergio

On Jun 20, 6:47 am, Me <u...@whatchamcallit.net> wrote:

Hmmm...wonder when some
> sleazy lawyer will figure out that ...

.... while Insurance Companies will require us to ride TT- like,
squirrel repellent, dish wheels.

Sergio
Pisa

Ryan Cousineau

In article
<e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
Dan O <danoverman@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
> > "Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:0f9fb585-87b0-4c39-aed2-f05123f0d31f@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
> > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
> >
> > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
> >
> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
> > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
> > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
> > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?
>
> You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
> forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
> like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?

Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.

Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.

> Why couldn't the wheel continue to spin? And even if you did get...
> um, an especially stout squirrel in the spokes, somehow managing to
> lock the wheel, wouldn't that just pitch you over the bars instead of
> smack into the ground?

Again, it depends. I think your instinct that the big mass in this
equation (to wit, the rider) would sorta want to not change its course
in space, it would definitely be influenced by the sudden stoppage of
the front wheel. Of more concern than the question of whether the rider
would be plunged into the ground head-first at a speed exceeding that
provided by the influence of gravity, would be that the rider would be
launched horizontally forward off the bike but quite possibly spinning,
meaning more random potential for injury.

A fork breaking always bad, but so is getting a squirrel stuck between
your spokes and your fork,

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

still just me

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 08:11:12 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <rcousine@gmail.com>
wrote:

>In article
><e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan O <danoverman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
>> > "Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:0f9fb585-87b0-4c39-aed2-f05123f0d31f@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>> >
>> > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>> >
>> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat reduce
>> > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the fork
>> > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
>> > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?
>>
>> You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
>> forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
>> like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?
>
>Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
>out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.

True, but I can't see any argument that the fork breaking has any
chance of decreasing your injuries.

>Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
>tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
>landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
>each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
>hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
>had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.

Again, the disposable CF fork can only increase the danger - even if
injuries incurred are somewhat random in assignment.

<snip>

* * Chas

"Me" <user@whatchamcallit.net> wrote in message
news:485B3670.2030200@whatchamcallit.net...
> Werehatrack wrote:
> > On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:22:26 -0700 (PDT), carlfogel@comcast.net may
> > have said:
> >
> >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
> >> Dear Mike,
> >>
> >> Just cross-posting your link to the crash pictures to RBT, where the
> >> detailed photos of the damage may be appreciated.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Carl Fogel
> >
> > When will people learn that if you're going to ride squirrel dicer
> > wheels, you need to sharpen the spokes properly?
> >
>
> Or, just get squirrel inhibitor(tm) wheels! With their closely-spaced
> spokes, there isn't enough space for squirrels to get lodged! Low
> spoke-count wheels such as these Mavic Krysiums seem designed to catch
> squirrels and fling them up against the fork. Hmmm...wonder when some
> sleazy lawyer will figure out that his new niche lies in suing
> manufacturers of squirrel-catcher wheels when these crashes happen?
>
> Cal

It's all related to the carbon fiber composite fork and low spoke count
wheel fad.

A properly laced 48 spoke wheel with a strong steel fork would just
decapitate the little suckers and the rider could continue on his way with
nary a sensation that anything happened.

Chas.

Werehatrack

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:42:48 -0700 (PDT), sergio
<servadio@df.unipi.it> may have said:

>On Jun 20, 6:47 am, Me <u...@whatchamcallit.net> wrote:
>
> Hmmm...wonder when some
>> sleazy lawyer will figure out that ...
>
>... while Insurance Companies will require us to ride TT- like,
>squirrel repellent, dish wheels.

Naaah, they'll just make the event organizers deploy effective
squirrel-control methods...which will, of course, be available only
from a company that's owned by the cousin of the insurance company's
CEO.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Carl Sundquist

"Ryan Cousineau" <rcousine@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rcousine-6CB576.01110920062008@[74.223.185.199.nw.nuvox.net]...
> In article
> <e374a2d9-81ca-4258-9e0a-466cb0df5cc1@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
> Dan O <danoverman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 19, 7:44 pm, "Carl Sundquist" <carl...@cox.net> wrote:
>> > "Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:0f9fb585-87b0-4c39-aed2-f05123f0d31f@x1g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > > On Jun 19, 12:22 pm, carlfo...@comcast.net wrote:
>> > >> On Jun 18, 7:54 pm, Mike A Schwab <mike.a.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> >http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/...key=iOs1rM3MJzo
>> >
>> > > Since, thankfully, "... he's now ok" I can say it: Steel is real.
>> >
>> > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the fork breaking somewhat
>> > reduce
>> > pivoting of the bike/rider into downward force? In other words, if the
>> > fork
>> > hadn't broken, would the inertial forces of the bike/rider have rotated
>> > downward as the front wheel could no longer spin?
>>
>> You mean to suggest that you think it would've been worse with steel
>> forks?!? Did you see the Life Flight pics or what?! How would you
>> like to just lose the whole frickin' front end of your bike at speed?
>
> Well, even I believe it's very likely the squirrel-body would have given
> out first, but it would have been a rapid deceleration nonetheless.
>
> Also, never underestimate the utter randomness of bike crashes. At
> tonight's criterium race, two of my teammates collided and ended up
> landing on the ground, off the side of the course, about two feet from
> each other. One went home with a band-aid or two. The other went to the
> hospital with a probable broken collarbone and collapsed lung. His bike
> had a slightly bent rear rim and a big gash in the saddle.
>
>> Why couldn't the wheel continue to spin? And even if you did get...
>> um, an especially stout squirrel in the spokes, somehow managing to
>> lock the wheel, wouldn't that just pitch you over the bars instead of
>> smack into the ground?
>
> Again, it depends. I think your instinct that the big mass in this
> equation (to wit, the rider) would sorta want to not change its course
> in space, it would definitely be influenced by the sudden stoppage of
> the front wheel. Of more concern than the question of whether the rider
> would be plunged into the ground head-first at a speed exceeding that
> provided by the influence of gravity, would be that the rider would be
> launched horizontally forward off the bike but quite possibly spinning,
> meaning more random potential for injury.
>
> A fork breaking always bad, but so is getting a squirrel stuck between
> your spokes and your fork,
>

First and foremost, I would agree with you Ryan that there is a great
randomness to degree of injuries in crashes.

That said, I was simply trying to ascertain if there would be any benefit to
breakaway parts, somewhat akin to designed-in crumple zones on cars. Could
injury generally be lessened if a breakaway part was engineered so that you
could have more of a sliding impact rather than a direct impact? As Ryan
suggests, degree of injury for similar impacts seem random enough to make
this a pointless exercise, plus the litigious liability of breakaway parts
would probably be astronomical.

Dan, I don't know if you are acquainted with the rider who crashed or not,
but I'm sorry you took my post as something other than I intended.