Threshold workouts: New thinking

Ade Merckx

Hey guys, ok we're all familiar with FTP, 2 x 20's, 3 x 20's sweet spot rides etc. Are there any new discoveries that you guys would care to share. Obviously I'm interested in increasing threshold power particularly with workouts of two hours or less. Thanks in advance

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tonyzackery

They're not new and I don't know if you've tried them yet, but I've been getting consistent and sustained results with over/unders. I'll alternate doing a minute at 10% above and below FTP for whatever time interval I decide. You can vary these as you see fit...percentage, time above/below, etc...

Tapeworm

Have no idea if they are effective but have setup on the home trainer some "steps", basically just increasing power every minute or 5 minutes or whatever by say 20 watts at a time to 30% above FTP then bringing down again.

Current one I am using stars at 150 watts and goes up 20 watts every 30 secs and down again by the same margin, peaking at 410 watts.

Hurts, a lot.

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frost

Nothing new under the sun as Tony said but I had a great workout last sunday. I started riding without better plan. It was a really heavy wind and I had to push to keep the bike moving so I ended up riding just a bit under FTP-level. First I thought 40 minutes would be good but once I got there I decided to go for an hour. At that point I didn't even look at the time but just continued and continued until I got back to city where I had to slow down. Ended up with 1,5 hours 0,95 IF. I actually felt great after that but the next day I could really feel it in my legs.

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frost

As long as the weather permits I am planning to continue "overlong" L4/SST outdoors where I do not need any extra motivation, but sooner or later probably sooner the trainer season is in front and here's my variation of over-under/hour-of-power theme: start riding steady 0.9 IF. Every full 5 minutes hit hard 1.15-1.2 IF for 30 secs. Return to 0.9. Every starting 3 minutes after full 5 (so eg. 3, 8, 13, etc) raise the power a bit over FTP (say 1.05 IF) for 1 minute.

The key is not the exact minutes or power figures but regularity. There is no any physiologial reasoning for this but the idea is to kill time. With hard parts coming regularly after couple of rounds you change your thinking from "time is going sooo slowly" to "oh no time is going so fast" when you are begging for recovery. With this I can do longish intervals on trainer and also with very good average power.

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spinner32

+1 for the idea of over/under training. If you are training for racing, this simulates the efforts that you'll be putting forth. When I do such workouts, either indoors or out, I always try to get "over" as fast as possible. Without straining, I push my cadence and up my gear to really simulate a "break," or an attempt to bridge up. It's pretty fun, and keeps your workouts interesting. I usually don't do over/under workouts until I have a pretty good base, or about one month or more into a training cycle.

john979

My off-season training has always been threshold-based. One of the keys to avoiding boredom is finding the correct power level. For me, this is around 90% of my last 20 minute test. I can ride an hour a this level day after day without feeling bored or over-reaching. Any more than this level and the perceived exertion becomes exponentially harder.

I do agree that mixing things up a bit also makes indoor training more tolerable. This can include over/under type workouts. What I do is get out of the saddle for a couple minutes every 15 minutes or so, raising the effort slightly. Over the last couple minutes of the workout I ramp my effort to about 10% above FTP but never high enough to feel totally wiped.

IMHO, during winter "maintenance" the volume of meaningful work is more important than intensity. I would rather keep to a level that allows for a high volume of "sweet spot" training than risk burnout by attempting more intense workouts, as the reward from marginally increasing intensity does not justify the risk.

tonyzackery

Agreed, so long as you are in "maintenance" mode as you mentioned. However, if your winter goal is to increase threshold power, such as the OP, then you will need to increase the intensity.

Steve_B

The stuff mentioned above is all good

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinner32 If you are training for racing, this simulates the efforts that you'll be putting forth.

As I get closer to the start of racing season (4-6 weeks), I will start doing 30/30's, which I do as 30 seconds @ ~133% of FTP followed by 30 seconds @ ~66%, repeat this on/off/on/off for 20 minutes. Do 1 or 2 sets of these 1 or 2 times per week. Historically I have struggled in the early season criteriums, which also happen to be my first races of the year. Doing several sessions of these help to lower the perceived exertion of the race.

From what I have read, you can think of this as sort of threshold work - it has a similar cardiovascular and metabolic demand to a steady threshold interval but the neuromuscular demand is more appropriate for on/off racing. I would not use it preparing for a time trial.

john979

Please note I said that I set my one hour training level on about 90% of my last 20 minute test. I test every 3 weeks or so. Thus, the actual wattage is continually increasing, as is my FTP. I only used the word "maintenance" because I dislike the term "base."

bubsy

John do you do these 20m tests in your off season aswell to make sure your 20MP has not decreased or increased or is your off season not long enough to cause a fluctuation in 20MP?

frost

Why would that be? Wouldn't it be exactly simulating variable power pacing strategy?

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john979

My "off-season" begins with getting reaclimated to the trainer, in my case a PT300. After three weeks or so, I perform my first 20 minute test and do so every three weeks or so until my threshold power plateaus.

tonyzackery

I have no intention to be pedantic here but "maintenance" and "base" training are two totally different training regimens. "Base" is an appropriate term in that it is synonomous with establishing a foundation, which is exactly what it is meant to do. The foundation for which higher intensity exercise can supported upon. Maintenance is doing just enough work to sustain the gains in fitness already achieved.