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#1 |
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The association of swimming with asthma has been long known.
But it has been a chicken/egg situation. The official "line" of USA Swimming (which has, shamefully, turned its back on the problem) is that swimming is "good" for asthma (e.g. as discussed in the most recent issue of SPLASH). Past articles in Swimming World have also endorsed the idea that swimming (by being "good" for asthma) ATTRACTS asthmatics, rather than swimming CREATING asthmatics. But the evidence which indicts swimming as the CAUSE of MOST cases of asthma present in competitive swimmers is now overwhelming. It is time to stop making excuses for the sport and to focus attention on this problem. Families considering putting their kids in the sport must be informed in advance of the risks. Serious investments must be made in (available) pool decontamination technologies to replace inexpensive but toxic chlorination. http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coac...rine/asthma.htm - Larry |
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Larry Weisenthal wrote:
> The association of swimming with asthma has been long known. > I suppose that is why many new pools are moving away from chroline then. -- Chris Lambert (http://web.trout-fish.org.uk/) It has recently been discovered that research causes cancer in rats. |
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#3 |
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Chris Lambert (http://web.trout-fish.org.uk/)
>>It has recently been discovered that research causes cancer in rats.<< 1. Cancer is on course to shortly overtake heart disease as the number one cause of death in the USA. 2. Most cases of cancer are "optional" and not "mandatory." 3. A not inconsequential amount of what we now know about the "optional" nature of cancer had its genesis in or was supported by the causation of cancer in sub-human animal models, including rats. |
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In <20031212164201.29482.00000007@mb-m02.aol.com> Larry Weisenthal wrote:
> The association of swimming with asthma has been long known. I haven't studied your article carefully yet, but I fear it's not my favorite style of research presentation. The sensationalist tone and lack of hard data seems to indicate that it's intended for a general audience, not the usual readers of a research journal. Is this online journal a referreed publication? You summarized some interesting papers (Bernard, Aggazzoti, etc). Good! But you made a mistake including some others. One in particular stood out: ... The implicated swimming pool revealed a gas-chlorinated pool with corrosion of metal fixtures and etching of cement and a pH of 2.7. I have no idea what this is doing in an article about asthma. This looks too much like a common scare tactic. It is taking an isolated example of a very poorly maintained pool and pretending it has some connection with the topic of the article. That sort of poor scholarship is usually a sign that the rest of the article might not be entirely on the up-and-up. Maybe it would help if you pulled that paragraph? > But the evidence which indicts swimming as the CAUSE of MOST cases of asthma present in > competitive swimmers is now overwhelming. Maybe. I don't know. But a few limited studies and anecdotes do not establish anything as the "CAUSE of MOST" of anything. And the leap from "exercise-induced bronchospasm" to "MOST cases of asthma" is hardly intuitive. Is anyone looking into a larger study? I almost hate to bring it up, but I didn't see where you discussed the relative cost of alternative water treatment methods. What would be the costs involved? In this day when schools (my local high school, anyway) are looking for excuses to shut down pools, you shouldn't avoid that discussion. Ross |
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To Ross,
You raise some excellent points. I'll address them this weekend. Thank you for taking the time to read and consider. - Larry |
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#6 |
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Ross Bogue raises appropriate questions.
Firstly, some background. I first raised the issue of asthma on this newsgroup about 5 years ago. At that time, approximately 8 of 25 kids on the Golden West Swim Club senior team were on inhalers for asthma. Then the pool was changed from a chlorination system to an ozonization system. All 8 asthmatic swimmers were able to discontinue their inhalers. I reported this on this newsgroup and received a private e-mail from the assistant coach of the Santa Barbara Swim Club, which trained out of both a chlorinated pool (on the beach in downtown Santa Barbara) and at an ozonated pool (at UC Santa Barbara). The coach told me that, like on most clubs, there were many swimmers in the chlorinated pool on inhalers, but none in the ozonated pool. I also received an e-mail from a swim parent in New England, who reported the opposite to our Golden West Swim Club experience. The New England team changed from a chlorine-free disinfection system to a chlorine-based system. Where asthma had been previously unknown on the team prior to chlorination, asthma became a serious problem thereafter. I also received an e-mail from former US Olympic Silver and Gold medalist, David Berkoff. Berkoff had also been concerned about the health hazards to competitive swimmers of swimming in chlorinated pools. He participated in a research project which resulted in a peer-reviewed publication (quoted in our editorial). Berkoff put great effort into trying to get USA Swimming to take the issue seriously and to support further research. He was very disappointed when these efforts were not successful. Also at this time, an international caliber swimmer (Pan Pac medalist) joined the Golden West Swim Club. This swimmer had a long history of serious, intractable, steroid-dependent asthma. I told the swimmer's parents that there was every likelihood that the swimmer's asthma would disappear, once she began training in the GWSC ozonated pool. I was correct. Within two months, the swimmer was off all medications. Two years ago, my older daughter, who at the time had been a competitive swimmer for 10 years, developed asthma while training at the University of California Irvine pool, which was an outdoor pool with very high walls (which trap chlorinated air at the water's surface well below deck level, particularly on cold mornings). This required treatment with inhaled glucocorticoids and bronchodilators. She developed continual and nearly intractable coughing and wheezing (which resulted in literally thousands of dollars in related medical expenses). She spent 6 months last year in England, training in an indoor, chlorinated pool, where the asthma worsened further. She had several very severe acute episodes and, in addition to bronchodilators, carried an emergency epinephrine syringe at all times in her swim bag. This was "real" (not just exercise-induced) asthma, with elevated serum IgE and eosinophilia. In late January, 2003, while on a three week training trip with her British team to Australia, she developed a severe shoulder injury which kept her out of the water for 6 months. Her asthma completely disappeared and she discontinued all medications. Since September, she has resumed full time training in an indoor pool as a college freshman varsity swimmer. Her asthma has recently begun to recur. These anecdotes are familiar to anyone closely involved with competitive swimming; were they only anecdotes, the situation would, perhaps, merit the benign neglect of USA Swimming. But these are not isolated anecdotes, as our editorial notes and which swim coaches would not dispute. Bogue raises several questions. First, the paper was an invited editorial and was reviewed only by the journal editorial staff and was not peer-reviewed. Second, the writing style was intentionally confrontational. The paper was an editorial and not a review. It was squarely addressing the same concerns raised by US Olympic medalist David Berkoff 15 years ago, which have continued to be ignored by the governing bodies of national and international swimming. Dr. Rushall and I feel that the short and long term health of literally tens of thousands of children is being jeopardized needlessly (as there are available decontamination alternatives, discussed in the editorial, which are not being explored with the deserved urgency). With regard to the so-called lack of factual data, the following are the important points: Firstly, it is precisely because of the publication of the recent (since year 2000) published studies that the editorial is particularly timely. In particular, the year 2002 study from Finland is of compelling importance. The authors documented a high level of asthma in competitive swimmers. This confirmed may previous studies which are disputed by no one. However, in the Finnish study, the authors followed the swimmers for several years after enrollment into the study. Swimmers who continued to train had a progressively increasing level of asthma. In athletes who discontinued swimming, asthma spontaneously disappeared in the majority. These findings, in the context of all the pre-existing information, including the near universal experience of professional coaches, makes an overwhelmingly case to support our point of view, that the lack of attention to this serious problem is "deplorable." Of course additional research would be helpful. Berkoff tried to get USA Swimming to support such research 15 years ago, without success. Tens of thousands of children have since suffered the consequence of swimming-induced asthma in USA Swimming sponsored programs ever since then. It is inexcusable and reprehensible that USA Swimming would not only fail to take a proactive role in addressing and solving this problem, but instead would continue to provide false assurance (e.g. as in the current issue of Splash) that swimming has a mitigating, rather than a causal, effect relating to asthma. Regarding the cost of chlorination alternatives, these costs must be balanced against the medical expenses related to treating asthma, which are considerable, as my own family's experience documents. The following study further emphasizes this point: Med Klin (Munich). 1996 Oct 15;91(10):670-6. Cost of asthma therapy in relation to severity. An empirical study Graf von der Schulenburg JM, Greiner W, Molitor S, Kielhorn A. Institut fur Versicherungbetriebslehre, Universitat Hannover. BACKGROUND: The aim of asthma therapy, i.e. the permanent elimination of the patient's symptoms, is as a rule, achievable over the long-term only with the aid of anti-inflammatory drugs. As well as medical, this approach also has considerable economic implications. The comparatively low compliance among asthmatics makes treatment in this context all the more difficult. An alternative that presents itself is the use of combination preparations, a mixture of a long-term prophylactic and a therapeutic agent. PATIENTS AND METHODS: With the aid of standardised questionnaires, data were acquired from 216 patients and assigned to subgroups in accordance with the degree of severity of the asthma. The patients were treated in the offices of a total of 23 GPs and internists selected at random from a complete list of all relevant practices in Germany. The use of resources, i.e. all diagnostic and therapeutic measures, was recorded retrospectively for a period of 1 year. In this way, all those resources of relevance to the health insurance carriers used during the observation period were identified. In addition to direct costs, so-called indirect costs were also estimated, i.e. in the present study the productivity loss to the economy due to illness-related absence from work. RESULTS: The annual cost of treating adult asthmatics was calculated to be DM 3,339 for level 1 severity, DM 5,260 for level 2 severity and DM 12,016 for level 3 severity. As the illness progresses in particular the direct cost of inpatient care and the indirect costs rise disproportionately. The yearly expenditure for women sufferers is about DM 800 more than for male sufferers. The direct cost of asthma treatment in children amounts to DM 2,950 for level 1, DM 3,225 for level 2, and DM 4,811 for level 3, severity. Here, drug-related costs in particular, rise significantly as the disease progresses. CONCLUSION: One of the results of the present study is the fact that for asthma sufferers in general, there is a positive correlation between average total costs and degree of severity. It may thus be postulated that preventive medical treatment of asthma that slows the progression of the illness, together with appropriate patient instruction, would have a positive effect on the total expenditure per patient. If, for example, the appropriate use of drugs in combination with patient instruction improved the compliance of asthmatics, lower treatment costs and a better quality of life for the patient could be expected. >>> The above costs (much of which is related to the cost of prescription drugs) are undoubtedly lower in German than in the USA (and the above study was published 7 years ago, and must be adjusted for inflation and the introduction of newer and more expensive drugs and diagnostic tests). With regard to the seemingly unrelated issues of dental erosions and cancer, it was the intention of the authors to focus attention on the problem of training for hours per day in chlorinated pools, and it seemed appropriate to note that there were additional medical issues beyond asthma to be considered. In particular, the long term carcinogenic effect of intense exposure to chloramines deserves much more attention than previously received. It must further be noted that the long term consequences of treating childhood asthma include long term effects such as osteoporosis and cataracts. e.g. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2003 Sep;112(3 Suppl):S1-40. Inhaled corticosteroids: past lessons and future issues. Allen DB, Bielory L, Derendorf H, Dluhy R, Colice GL, Szefler SJ. Division of Endocrinology, University of Wisconsin Children's Hospital, Madison 53792-4108, USA. Inhaled corticosteroids play a pivotal role in the treatment of asthma. Inhalation permits effective delivery of the corticosteroid in high concentration to target sites within the lung while minimizing systemic exposure. Consequently, the safety profile of inhaled corticosteroids is markedly better than that of oral corticosteroid therapy. However, although it was first thought that direct delivery might eliminate systemic adverse effects, this has not been confirmed by clinical trials and experience. Inhaled corticosteroids are absorbed from the lungs into the systemic circulation, in which they can acutely decrease growth velocity in children, an effect that fortunately appears to be temporary and might have no effect on final adult height. In sufficient dosages, they also produce bone mineral loss leading to osteoporosis and might increase the risk of cataracts, glaucoma, skin atrophy, and vascular changes that increase the risk of ecchymoses. Effective evaluation of the severity and significance of these complications is challenging because highly sensitive tests do not reliably predict clinically significant events, and short-term observations do not predict long-term consequences. Also, compliance wanes with long-term treatment, and susceptibility to a particular adverse event can vary over time, even in the same individual, because of developmental or hormonal changes. This journal supplement will review what has been learned about the safety of inhaled cortico-steroids during the past decade, discussing some of the questions that remain and considering the characteristics of an "ideal" inhaled corticosteroid: one with high local activity in the lung and minimal or no adverse systemic effects. >>> It is important to emphasize that, by far, the highest risk group are children and teenagers in year around competitive swimming programs. These swimmers have a vastly greater exposure to chloramines than in the case of recreational and masters swimmers. Additionally, growing children have greater vulnerability to the long term health consequences of intense exposure to chlorinated pool water. It is past time for the competitive swimming community to address and solve this important issue. Hopefully, it will not take something like a class action lawsuit to initiate the needed actions, which, at a minimum, require disclosure of risks and informed consent from parents who expose their children to these risks. - Larry Weisenthal |
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#7 |
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"Larry Weisenthal" > The association of swimming with asthma has been long known.
Is this only a chlorine problem? I swim in a bromine pool. I haven't had any bad effects from it, but then, I don't "train" like the competitive swimmers. Have you heard of this asthma problem with bromine pools? thanks, Pat in TX |
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#8 |
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Swimming attracts asthmatics. When was diagnosed with asthma my doctor's first comment was that I
should take up swimming to treat it. My personal experience is that swimming controls my asthma better than any medication, but it just happens that I swim outdoors in a salt water pool. A couple of weeks ago I saw an interview with Samantha Riley on TV in which she said that swimming had kept her asthma under control and she told of some instances when she had stopped training and her asthma had subsequently become worse. Your article is dangerous. It could discourage asthmatics from swimming and benefiting from the resultant improvement in asthma symptoms, all without side-effects. "Larry Weisenthal" <runnswim@aol.comnet> wrote in message news:20031212164201.29482.00000007@mb- m02.aol.com... > The association of swimming with asthma has been long known. > > But it has been a chicken/egg situation. The official "line" of USA Swimming > (which has, shamefully, turned its back on the problem) is that swimming is > "good" for asthma (e.g. as discussed in the most recent issue of SPLASH). Past > articles in Swimming World have also endorsed the idea that swimming (by being > "good" for asthma) ATTRACTS asthmatics, rather than swimming CREATING asthmatics. > > But the evidence which indicts swimming as the CAUSE of MOST cases of asthma > present in competitive swimmers is now overwhelming. > > It is time to stop making excuses for the sport and to focus attention on this > problem. Families considering putting their kids in the sport must be informed > in advance of the risks. Serious investments must be made in (available) pool > decontamination technologies to replace inexpensive but toxic chlorination. > > http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coac...rine/asthma.htm > > - Larry |
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#9 |
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>>Is this only a chlorine problem? I swim in a bromine pool. I haven't had any
bad effects from it, but then, I don't "train" like the competitive swimmers. Have you heard of this asthma problem with bromine pools?<< That's an important question...would be so easy to answer so many important questions relating to the association between swimming and asthma, were USA Swimming simply to send out some well-designed questionnaires to its 250,000 or so member swimmers. For what it's worth, the anecdote I gave of the New England swim club which switched from a non- chlorine disinfection system to a chlorine-based disinfection system (and went from basically no asthma to a lot of asthma) switched from bromination to chlorination. So it may be that bromination is safer, from an asthma perspective; but research (currently not being done, but relatively easy to do, as noted above) is needed. |
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#10 |
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In <20031213005852.21823.00000580@mb-m19.aol.com> Larry Weisenthal wrote:
> > These anecdotes are familiar to anyone closely involved with competitive swimming; were they only > anecdotes, the situation would, perhaps, merit the benign neglect of USA Swimming. But these are > not isolated anecdotes, as our editorial notes and which swim coaches would not dispute. It sounds to me like you want USA Swimming, FINA, and perhaps some other bodies to collectively sponsor a symposium on the subject. You, Rushall, and others would present your findings, and the entire body would decide whether it deserves further study or whether to recommend a change in the current practice. Do you have any supporters in those groups who might propose such a symposium? > > Regarding the cost of chlorination alternatives, these costs must be balanced against the medical > expenses related to treating asthma, which are considerable, as my own family's experience > documents. Well, what are the costs? The costs of treating asthma would be borne by the swimmers' families, not the parks and schools that own the pools. The relevant question is "Do we upgrade this already-too-expensive pool, or do we close it down and divert any money into the football program?" Remember that the school is currently $2 million in the red (yes, my local school is), and that the board members' children are in football, not swimming. Ross |
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runnswim@aol.comnet (Larry Weisenthal) wrote in message news:<20031212164201.29482.00000007@mb-m02.aol.com>...
> But the evidence which indicts swimming as the CAUSE of MOST cases of asthma present in > competitive swimmers is now overwhelming. > > It is time to stop making excuses for the sport and to focus attention on this problem. Families > considering putting their kids in the sport must be informed in advance of the risks. Serious > investments must be made in (available) pool decontamination technologies to replace inexpensive > but toxic chlorination. > > http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coac...rine/asthma.htm > > - Larry I read about swimming and asthma a few years ago but not exactly in the "toxic" laden tone of this article. This article as it is, would do more harm than good. It is sensationalized rumor-mongering hiding behind bibliograhic references but actually is based on nothing more than a few casual observations. Anybody can put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5. I was an asthmatic as a young child and remember being rushed to the hospital a few times. However, by the time I turned 20, I had completely outgrown it. I am 40 now, and have been swimming in chlorinated pools 3-4x a week for about 1 to 1.5 hrs each session for the past 10 years. My hair is brittle and my skin reeks of chlorine all day long, but the asthma has stayed away. Thanks to swimming, I'm slim and trim. If I had read this article 10 years ago before I took up swimming, I'd be a couch potato with a 40-inch belly by now. Bill |
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#12 |
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"Larry Weisenthal" <runnswim@aol.comnet> wrote in message
news:20031214221404.11589.00000606@mb-m25.aol.com... So it may be that bromination is > safer, from an asthma perspective; but research (currently not being done, but > relatively easy to do, as noted above) is needed. and who do you propose finance this research? we both know it would take much MUCH more to verify this than 250K questionnaires, of which you might get a return of 33%? and then what? who will stump up the money for renovation of the pools to meet the specified requirements? we're lacking pools of a high standard anyway, and struggle to find money for more. also, to suggest that people select their club on this basis is a little far fetched don't you think? as salient as your point may be, i very much doubt anyone would follow that advice. |
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#13 |
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I know of many cases where bromine facilities had to switch to chlorine because too many people
developed severe contact dermatitis from the bromine. Chlorine worked fine. I also knew of at least one kid who had more asthma in bromine than in chlorine. Ozone would be nice, but then I am told that it only works as the water is filtered through the system but does not help with immediate disinfection, for example, if the person next to you has a runny nose with infected mucous and you happen to swallow it (yuck). Chlorine works on contact to kill this sort of thing. Ventilation would certainly help, but what do we do about all those old facilties that many are stuck using? What really irks me is our local YWCA has the air SO hot and humid (and the water) and they refuse to open doors for ventilation. If there is some literature on this, I would like to pass it along to them in the hopes that maybe they will come to their senses. Marianne "Larry Weisenthal" <runnswim@aol.comnet> wrote in message news:20031214221404.11589.00000606@mb- m25.aol.com... > >>Is this only a chlorine problem? I swim in a bromine pool. I haven't had any > bad effects from it, but then, I don't "train" like the competitive swimmers. Have you heard of > this asthma problem with bromine pools?<< > > That's an important question...would be so easy to answer so many important > questions relating to the association between swimming and asthma, were USA > Swimming simply to send out some well-designed questionnaires to its 250,000 or > so member swimmers. > > For what it's worth, the anecdote I gave of the New England swim club which > switched from a non-chlorine disinfection system to a chlorine-based disinfection system (and went > from basically no asthma to a lot of asthma) switched from bromination to chlorination. So it may > be that bromination is > safer, from an asthma perspective; but research (currently not being done, but > relatively easy to do, as noted above) is needed. |
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#14 |
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On 15 Dec,
"MSEagan" <swimgiraffe@yahoo.com> wrote: > Ozone would be nice, but then I am told that it only works as the water is filtered through the > system but does not help with immediate disinfection, for example, if the person next to you has a > runny nose with infected mucous and you happen to swallow it (yuck). Chlorine works on contact to > kill this sort of thing. > Our main pool is mainly ozone disinfected in the circulation system (which is then filtered out) and is about 20 years old It uses a small chlorine dose for immediate disinfection (about 25% of the usual dose) of the bulk water to kill the above. More modern pools often use UV tubes as the main steriliser, but still use a small chlorine dose. All pools backwash their sand filters at least once a week which serves to dilute the combined chlorine and TDS in the pool, which can be a major problem if not kept in check. I personally find the perfumes/deodorants and shampoo used by swimmers a greater allergin. I have hay fever which has developed to asthma on a few occasions, non athletic, but when there have been high levels of the trigger allergins about. This has never been when swimming in any pool, which has always been beneficial to me. -- BD add 1 to from address to reply [13435] |
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>>Your article is dangerous. It could discourage asthmatics from swimming and
benefiting from the resultant improvement in asthma symptoms, all without side-effects.<< The evidence is compelling that swimming in chlorinated pools creates many more new cases of steroid- dependent asthma than the truly minimal benefits (which could be achieved, in any event, through swimming in non-chlorinated pools). In addition to the immediate health hazards and expense of acquiring steroid-dependent asthma are the long term consequences of osteoporosis (to which swimmers are at greater risk than land athletes), cataracts, diabetes, etc., associated with the use of steroid inhalers, which are often the only medications which control asthma. The point is not to keep kids from swimming, it is, rather, to create a safe environment in which they may swim. For example, high pool walls with gutters trap chlorinated air. Flush deck pool designs disperse chlorinated air much more effectively. This is a particulary important consideration in outdoor pools in temperate climates, such as California and Arizona. High volume portable fans (e.g. as present in the brand new indoor competition pool in Commerce, CA) further disperse chlorinated air. There are also alternatives to chlorination, as discussed in the editorial. There are also choices between safer pools and more dangerous pools. Knowledge of the (severe) risks from training intensively in dangerous pools should enter into the decision of which team to join. |