9 speed STI Brifters

[Scott2468]

Hi. I use a 6500 9 speed ultegra group on my commuter. The STI shifters have packed it in. I am struggling to find replacements in good condition at a reasonable price. So I am considering brand new Sora ST 3500 9 speed levers. Is the indexing suitable / identical between the old 6500 derailleur & cluster and the new 3500 lever? Is there another option? Thanks. Scott

 

[mpre53]

I think Microshift is 100% compatible with Shimano. I had a set of 8 speed Microshift. They had dedicated brake levers, and two paddle shifters for shifting up and down. Shimano supposedly did away with the old thumb button upshift on Sora, and now they apparently operate the same as higher end STI.

 

[oldbobcat]

Absolutely correct about Microshift. Microshift paid a settlement to Shimano for patent infringement based on this compatibility.

And Sora 9-speed is 100 percent compatible with old Dura-Ace, Ultegra, and 105 9-speed systems.

 

[Scott2468]

Thanks fellas. I can get both 3500 Sora and Microshift brand new. Sora for about $100, microshift for $120. I have never seen or heard of Microshift before. What is better quality, Sora or Microshift? What is better useability, Sora or Microshift? Thanks again. I appreciate your input. Scott

 

[mpre53]

Microshift has two paddle shifters: the bigger for down, the smaller for up. The brake levers are just that, brake levers. You can reach the smaller paddle shifter from the drops.

New (3500) Sora works like Tiagra up to Ultegra. Brake lever moves sideways to go to a lower gear, paddle shifter upshifts. Older Sora used a small thumb button for upshifts which you couldn't reach from the drops.However, if ordering online, make sure it's 3500. I have seen older 3400 Sora, with the hated thumb button, advertized as 3500. If the price seems too good to be true, it may be old stock 3400 that a site is trying to unload.

Durability, having never used Sora, I would guess that it outlasts Microshift. But just a guess. Ease of use, I can only imagine that it's a bit easier to hit the wrong paddle lever using MS, than it is to mistake the brake lever for the paddle shifter using Shimano.

I honestly don't know whether Sora still has a gear indicator on the top of the shifters. MS doesn't have one. In any event, you don't need it. It's there for people who think in terms of "1st, 2nd, --9th gear" instead of relying on feedback from their legs on when to shift.

 

[alfeng]

FYI. Campagnolo shifters are compatible with 9-speed Shimano/SRAM Cassettes, too.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by alfeng

FYI. Campagnolo shifters are compatible with 9-speed Shimano/SRAM Cassettes, too.

Shimano's pull rate is 1:1.7 and the length of cable pulled per shift is 2.5 mm, shifting the chain 4.25 mm per shift (actual pitch is 4.35 mm).

Campagnolo's pull rate is 1:1.5 and the cable pull is 3.0 mm, shifting the chain 4.50 mm per shift (actual pitch is 4.55 mm).

Applying a Shimano derailleur to a Campagnolo shifter (1.7 x 3.0 mm) shifts the chain 5.10 mm, overshifting the Shimano cassette cog by 0.75 mm.

Alf, are you (a) mixing Campagnolo spacers with Shimano cogs, (b) misrouting the cable, (c) using a Campagnolo derailleur, or (d) using 10- or 11-speed Campagnolo shifters?

My source: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/Maintenance_and_Repair/Gear-changing_Dimensions

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Scott2468

Thanks fellas.

I can get both 3500 Sora and Microshift brand new. Sora for about $100, microshift for $120.

I have never seen or heard of Microshift before.

What is better quality, Sora or Microshift?

What is better useability, Sora or Microshift?

Thanks again. I appreciate your input.

Scott

In shape and function, Sora 3500 levers are very similar to Ultegra 6500--same outswept brake levers, same downshift paddles. There's more plastic, though, and the feel and durability aren't as good, Your old Ultegra levers were probably getting pretty punky before quitting anyway. In my opinion, Sora 3500 is a little better than Tiagra 4500, which was a lot like 105 5600 but for 9-speed and with Tiagra production values of that generation.

Having worked on bikes with Microshift levers, here's my summary: 8-speed on Fuji Newest 1.0s, pretty funky, but I'm told a lot of that was from crappy cables and housings; 9-speed on lower-end Felts, not too shabby, and I"d definitely prefer it to Sora 3400 (the one with thumb tabs); 10-speed Microshift, pretty slick and functional (like the 5500-6600-7800 generation), but I wouldn't prefer it to Shimano. Getting used to three levers under each hand was a stretch.

If you can't find NOS or lightly used 6500 levers, I vote for Sora 3500. They're solid.

 

[Owboduz]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat
Shimano's pull rate is 1:1.7 and the length of cable pulled per shift is 2.5 mm, shifting the chain 4.25 mm per shift (actual pitch is 4.35 mm).

Campagnolo's pull rate is 1:1.5 and the cable pull is 3.0 mm, shifting the chain 4.50 mm per shift (actual pitch is 4.55 mm).

Applying a Shimano derailleur to a Campagnolo shifter (1.7 x 3.0 mm) shifts the chain 5.10 mm, overshifting the Shimano cassette cog by 0.75 mm.

Alf, are you (a) mixing Campagnolo spacers with Shimano cogs, (b) misrouting the cable, (c) using a Campagnolo derailleur, or (d) using 10- or 11-speed Campagnolo shifters?

My source: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/Maintenance_and_Repair/Gear-changing_Dimensions

or (e) using a shift-mate adaptor?

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Owboduz
or (e) using a shift-mate adaptor?

Right.

 

[alfeng]

Quote:Originally Posted by oldbobcat .Shimano's pull rate is 1:1.7 and the length of cable pulled per shift is 2.5 mm, shifting the chain 4.25 mm per shift (actual pitch is 4.35 mm).
 
Campagnolo's pull rate is 1:1.5 and the cable pull is 3.0 mm, shifting the chain 4.50 mm per shift (actual pitch is 4.55 mm).
 
Applying a Shimano derailleur to a Campagnolo shifter (1.7 x 3.0 mm) shifts the chain 5.10 mm, overshifting the Shimano cassette cog by 0.75 mm.
 
Alf, are you (a) mixing Campagnolo spacers with Shimano cogs, (b) misrouting the cable, (c) using a Campagnolo derailleur, or (d) using 10- or 11-speed Campagnolo shifters?
 
My source: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/Maintenance_and_Repair/Gear-changing_Dimensions


GEEZ ... How many times do I have to explain this?!? Independently, in a what-if situation, I discerned that when a 10-speed Campagnolo shifter was mated to a Shimano XT 750 rear derailleur that the resultant indexing matched 8-speed Shimano indexing ... which is essentially the same as 8-speed Campagnolo indexing, BTW.

• Back in the day, most 8-speed Cogs were NOT ramped ... Sheldon Brown was apparently a bit lazy when he was unable to swap an 8-speed Shimano wheel with an 8-speed Campagnolo wheel BECAUSE he apparently did not adjust the rear derailleur's Hi-Lo stops. If one were able to take a wheel which has a ramped 8-speed Shimano-or-SRAM Cassette then it possibly would work in bike equipped with an 8-speed Campagnolo indexed bike WITHOUT adjusting the stops because the RAMPING may be the shifter designer's best friend ... Since ramped 8-speed Campagnolo Cogs do NOT exist, AFAIK, the opposite cannot be done

Subsequently, I read about the hubbub.com alternate rear derailleur cable anchoring at 3 o'clock which allowed a 10-speed Campagnolo shifter to replicate 9-speed Shimano indexing.

THAT was followed by an introduction to Chris Juden's compatibility matrix ...

Most recently, on one bike, I have an 11-speed Campagnolo shifter mated with a Campagnolo rear derailleur + a 9-speed Shimano Cassette! THAT means that a Shimano rear derailleur should work, too, with-or-without making a hubbub.com adjustment!

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by alfeng


Most recently, on one bike, I have an 11-speed Campagnolo shifter mated with a Campagnolo rear derailleur + a 9-speed Shimano Cassette!

THAT means that a Shimano rear derailleur should work, too, with-or-without making a hubbub.com adjustment!

So you're advising Scott to buy Campagnolo 11-speed levers to use with his 9-speed Ultegra?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat
So you're advising Scott to buy Campagnolo 11-speed levers to use with his 9-speed Ultegra?

Well, a person's budget & aesthetic sensibilities ARE factors ...

• despite the passage of time, I still consider the current (V3) Campagnolo shifters to be FUGLY ...
• supposedly, form follows function .... but, I'm still not keen on the original, so-called 4-arm (hidden 5th chainring bolt) cranks also, some of Campagnolo's early CF cranks were aesthetically UN-pleasing to me
• not that I am the arbiter of what does-or-doesn't look good BTW. As with many others, I'm really not keen on the pending 4-arm cranks which Campagnolo is going to foist on the cycling community ... I reckon that Campangolo's new 4-arm cranks will probably become collector's items akin to Campagnolo's DELTA brakeset

Despite the recalcitrance of people like yourself to embrace Campagnolo shifters, the advantages to choosing a set of Campagnolo shifters seem too obvious to ignore by those of us who are not sponsored riders or for whom discounts are not readily available ...

1. Campagnolo shifters offer almost universal compatibility with older (7-/8-9-/10-speed) Shimano drivetrains
   • there is apparent compatibility between 10-speed Campagnolo shfiters with 10-speed SRAM drivetrains
   • unintended-but-universal compatibility is a good thing!
2. the 11-speed Campagnolo shifters are probably compatible with 11-speed Shimano drivetrains
3. Campagnolo shifters can be used with almost any cable operated front derailleur with almost any crankset
   • again, unintended-but-universal compatibility is a good thing!!!
4. Campagnolo shifters generally cost less (via eBay, etc.)
   • "used" Campagnolo shifters work well & should cost less than $150US most Campagnolo shifters can be re-built, if necessary
   • Xenon & Xenon-based QS shifters cannot be rebuilt (the handle with the "working" parts can be replaced, separately)
5. on the downside, the rest of Campagnolo's lineup is generally over-priced
6. Campagnolo shifters are not handicapped by "dwell" -- consequently, they provide superb shifting when the drivetrain is under a load without any rider machinations
7. Campagnolo shifters have great/logical ergonomics (IMO)
   • push the RIGHT shift paddle to the left, the chain is moved to the left (toward the larger Cogs) push the RIGHT thumb lever down, and the chain is moved down (toward the smaller Cogs)
8. push the LEFT shift paddle to the right, the chain is moved to the right (onto the the larger Chainring(s))
   • push the LEFT thumb lever down, and the chain is moved down (toward the smaller Chainring(s))
9. they even work well with older/vintage UN-ramped chainrings
   • front derailleur adjustment is significantly EASIER essentially, ​idiot-proof
     
10. ramping on the chainrings is always beneficial, of course, but less so
11. what's not to like?

So, I think that the question is whether-or-not there is the same availability @ roughly $150US +/- (?) in Australia via a mail order source as there is here in the States which I think is roughly the mail order price for Tiagra/etc. shifters AND whether Scott2468 can overcome the appearance (which I am sure that SOME people like ... okay, it's really not so bad if one has a set with 'black' brake levers) ...

Regardless, the Campagnolo shifters (any 10-speed or 11-speed variant) is an option which is worth considering WITHOUT even taking into account that they work better (!!!) when shifting under a load than Shimano's mechanical shifters which are still handicapped by the fore mentioned dwell.

So, while there are things in this World which I cannot wrap my mind around, the unintended compatibility of Campagnolo shifters is not one of them ...

And so, if one can achieve what appears to be shifting with an existing Shimano Road bike drivetrain which is only recently matched by Di2 & EPS electronic systems at 1/10th the cost ... well, I say "You do the math."

 

[Scott2468]

Hi.

As the 3500 Sora is 100% compatible, the cheapest, identical mechanism to my old 6500 & moderately robust, I have decided this is the way to go. If it lasts half the kms the 6500 did, I will be happy. I think by then, the rest of the group will need retiring.

Everyone, thanks for the info and your input. There were a few creative alternatives thrown in.

 

[oldbobcat]

It ain't Ultegra, but it ain't bad.