absorbtion of vitamins and minerals



C

cguttman

Guest
Hello,

there are many vitamin and mineral supplements out there these days.
Lets assume that we actually need more vitamins and minerals than the
recommended daily intake (RDI). I wonder if our body is actually able to
absorb and use these additional nutrients? For example, a friend of mine
is taking 120 times the RDI of vitamin B12, but I wonder can his body
really absorb this large amount? To what extend do fibre or fat-soluble
vitamins play a role in nutrient absorbtion?

Take two extreme situations: 1) you eat only vitamin and mineral pills
the whole day, and 2) you eat only food with few minerals and vitamins
(e.g., junk food). Your body probably uses just as many nutrients in
both cases. In case 1, your body cannot use all the vitamins and
minerals, because you need fibre and fat and other things (I dont know
which other things). In case 2, you may have eaten sufficient fibre and
fat, but not enough vitamins and minerals. Both cases lead to a
deficiency of minerals and vitamins. Is this correct?

So, this implies that a good way to make use of vitamins and minerals is
by eating enough fibre and fat - in a balanced ratio. However, I
actually don't know the factors that contribute to the absorption of
nutrients (except the above mentioned: fibre and fat), and I don't know
how much of these absorbtion factors is necessary to actually use a
certain amount of minerals and vitamins.

Does anyone know?

Chris

PS: I am asking, because I am thinking of buying some supplements, but
there is no point spending a lot of money if the supplements literally
are flushed down the toilet.
 
Howdy Chris,

I guarantee that your friend is urinating excess vitamin B, every day.
At a camp I worked at, we used B vitamins to help cut down on the
mosquito's biting. In about a day and a half, you could smell the
difference in your urine.

(and to top it off, it was only effective against mosquitoes for a very
short time, and not VERY effective, at any time).

Fiber is basically NOT used for anything but a gentle "push" on the
digestive tract. It isn't absorbed, but I'm sure it helps to "scrub"
the lining of the intestines and colon, as it works it's way down.
Don't think of it as needed for metabolism, however.

We DO need some fat in our diet, for healthy skin, hair, connective
tissue, etc. As you know, there are good fats and bad fats, however.

No ratio's between fiber and fat are relevant. The latter is used in
metabolism, the former is just a cleaner/pusher to the **** shoot. If
fiber were absorbed, it wouldn't have the mass to clean and push.

The only supplements I believe are worth a nickel, are the Omega3's,
and if you're over 40, an occassional adult dose of aspirin, (which
should be discussed with your doctor because it can upset a stomach if
taken on empty stomach's, etc.)

Yes, americans throw a ton of money, right down the toilet, from
supplements. But it's a HUGE business, and lots of folks like to
believe it's a hope for their health problems.

If you have a balanced diet, regular exercise, and no metabolic special
problems, skip the rest of the supplements, and you'll be healthier,
and far richer.

Adak
 
Omega 3 "competitively inhibit" the metabolization of AA into dangerous
molecules (such as LTB4). If you get the AA out, you don't need any
omega 3s. However, omega 3s are highly susceptible to lipid
peroxiation, and so while you may be inhbiting AA metabolization, you
are probably doing terrible harm to yourself as well. Search this
group for montygram and read my posts, which often contain many
citations that are on point.

2 types of fiber: a little insoluble probably won't do much damage, but
soluble ones act as an anti-nutritive substance, due to binding
capacity. I take calcium/magnesium and D each day, but only in the
citrate form. You need a lot of stomach acid for the oxide form, and I
have to supplement stomach acid because I don't have enough. I also
take tiny amounts of a B complex powder each day. If you eat a lot of
unsaturated fatty acids, you may need vitamin E supplementation (in a
mixed tocopherol form - check out LEF's product). I use organic butter
and cocount oil, so I don't need vitamin E. If you cook food that
contains cholesterol while exposed to air, you are doing a lot of
damage, so try to boil it from now on (such as eggs).
 
Hi Monty,

comments below.

montygram wrote:
> Omega 3 "competitively inhibit" the metabolization of AA into dangerous
> molecules (such as LTB4).

What is AA and LTB4? What does competitively inhibit mean?

> If you get the AA out, you don't need any
> omega 3s. However, omega 3s are highly susceptible to lipid
> peroxiation, and so while you may be inhbiting AA metabolization, you
> are probably doing terrible harm to yourself as well.

What is lipid peroxiation? Why do you do harm to yourself?

> Search this
> group for montygram and read my posts, which often contain many
> citations that are on point.
>
> 2 types of fiber: a little insoluble probably won't do much damage, but
> soluble ones act as an anti-nutritive substance, due to binding
> capacity. I take calcium/magnesium and D each day, but only in the
> citrate form.

Why only citrate?

> You need a lot of stomach acid for the oxide form, and I
> have to supplement stomach acid because I don't have enough.

So, you seriously buy and consum synthethic stomach acid? Oxide form of ...?

> I also
> take tiny amounts of a B complex powder each day. If you eat a lot of
> unsaturated fatty acids, you may need vitamin E supplementation (in a
> mixed tocopherol form - check out LEF's product). I use organic butter
> and cocount oil, so I don't need vitamin E. If you cook food that
> contains cholesterol while exposed to air, you are doing a lot of
> damage, so try to boil it from now on (such as eggs).
>

Chris
 
Hi Adak,

>
> Fiber is basically NOT used for anything but a gentle "push" on the
> digestive tract. It isn't absorbed, but I'm sure it helps to "scrub"
> the lining of the intestines and colon, as it works it's way down.
> Don't think of it as needed for metabolism, however.

By scrubbing the lining of the intestines and colon, absorption of
vitamins and minerals should be easier, no?

Yes, fiber has no nutrition and is not absorbed in your bloodstream, but
it is used by your body to scrub the intestines.

Chris
 
"montygram" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>Search this
> group for montygram and read my posts, which often contain many
> citations

most of them with a completely different outcome than what
you would like to forcefully interpret into them.

>that are on point.

I have yet to see a citation being "on point" from you.

> 2 types of fiber: a little insoluble probably won't do much damage, but
> soluble ones act as an anti-nutritive substance, due to binding
> capacity.

...they also act as anti-cancerogenic due to binding capacity of free
transition metal ions.
...and they are great nutrients for the bacterial flora in the gut which, in
term, helps the immune system.

Looking at the raw data: soluable fiber is mostly in fruits and vegetables-
its pretty well accepted that those are not the most unhealthy food items.
 
cguttman wrote:
> However, I
> actually don't know the factors that contribute to the absorption of
> nutrients (except the above mentioned: fibre and fat), and I don't know
> how much of these absorbtion factors is necessary to actually use a
> certain amount of minerals and vitamins.

NEWSFLASH: That knowledge wont help your body do a better job of
absorbing vitamins.

> PS: I am asking, because I am thinking of buying some supplements, but
> there is no point spending a lot of money if the supplements literally
> are flushed down the toilet.

Another total fallacy.

Your statement is simply not true. The point you are making is simply
not relevant. You take 400 IU's of vitamin E and your body only
absorbs, let us say 4 IU's of it. So, what??? Everybody is in the
same boat. All the studies on people taking 400 IU's of Vitamin E a
day tested on humans in the same boat as you. If anything that fact
makes taking 400 IU's of vitamin E daily seem more reasonable to me.

What is stupid is talking about what the RDA of vitamin E is. It is
quite irrelevant.
 

> Your statement is simply not true.

Which statement? I have only asked questions.

> The point you are making is simply
> not relevant.

Which point? Relevant to what exactly?

> You take 400 IU's of vitamin E and your body only
> absorbs, let us say 4 IU's of it. So, what???

Well, if I have to pay cash for these 400 IU of vitamin E, and my body
only uses 4 IU then why spending the money?

> Everybody is in the
> same boat. All the studies on people taking 400 IU's of Vitamin E a
> day tested on humans in the same boat as you.

Which boat? Can you explain?

> If anything that fact
> makes taking 400 IU's of vitamin E daily seem more reasonable to me.

Which fact do you mean?

>
> What is stupid is talking about what the RDA of vitamin E is. It is
> quite irrelevant.

What do you mean? Why do you mention Vitamin E? What is this irrelevant to?

Chris
 
cguttman wrote:
> > Your statement is simply not true.
>
> Which statement? I have only asked questions.
>
> > The point you are making is simply
> > not relevant.
>
> Which point? Relevant to what exactly?
>
> > You take 400 IU's of vitamin E and your body only
> > absorbs, let us say 4 IU's of it. So, what???
>
> Well, if I have to pay cash for these 400 IU of vitamin E, and my body
> only uses 4 IU then why spending the money?
>
> > Everybody is in the
> > same boat. All the studies on people taking 400 IU's of Vitamin E a
> > day tested on humans in the same boat as you.
>
> Which boat? Can you explain?
>
> > If anything that fact
> > makes taking 400 IU's of vitamin E daily seem more reasonable to me.
>
> Which fact do you mean?
>
> >
> > What is stupid is talking about what the RDA of vitamin E is. It is
> > quite irrelevant.
>
> What do you mean? Why do you mention Vitamin E? What is this irrelevant to?
>
> Chris

Ooooh! I have better thans to do than talk to an idiot.

You have my condolences.

If you think that I don't know that you are simply trying to be cute,
your are an idiot.
 
adak wrote:
> Howdy Chris,
>
> I guarantee that your friend is urinating excess vitamin B, every day.
> At a camp I worked at, we used B vitamins to help cut down on the
> mosquito's biting. In about a day and a half, you could smell the
> difference in your urine.
>
> (and to top it off, it was only effective against mosquitoes for a very
> short time, and not VERY effective, at any time).
>
> Fiber is basically NOT used for anything but a gentle "push" on the
> digestive tract. It isn't absorbed, but I'm sure it helps to "scrub"
> the lining of the intestines and colon, as it works it's way down.
> Don't think of it as needed for metabolism, however.
>
> We DO need some fat in our diet, for healthy skin, hair, connective
> tissue, etc. As you know, there are good fats and bad fats, however.
>
> No ratio's between fiber and fat are relevant. The latter is used in
> metabolism, the former is just a cleaner/pusher to the **** shoot. If
> fiber were absorbed, it wouldn't have the mass to clean and push.
>
> The only supplements I believe are worth a nickel, are the Omega3's,
> and if you're over 40, an occassional adult dose of aspirin, (which
> should be discussed with your doctor because it can upset a stomach if
> taken on empty stomach's, etc.)
>
> Yes, americans throw a ton of money, right down the toilet, from
> supplements. But it's a HUGE business, and lots of folks like to
> believe it's a hope for their health problems.
>
> If you have a balanced diet, regular exercise, and no metabolic special
> problems, skip the rest of the supplements, and you'll be healthier,
> and far richer.
>
> Adak
 
cguttman wrote:
> Hello,
>
> there are many vitamin and mineral supplements out there these days.
> Lets assume that we actually need more vitamins and minerals than the
> recommended daily intake (RDI). I wonder if our body is actually able to
> absorb and use these additional nutrients? For example, a friend of mine
> is taking 120 times the RDI of vitamin B12, but I wonder can his body
> really absorb this large amount? To what extend do fibre or fat-soluble
> vitamins play a role in nutrient absorbtion?


Eat healthy and take a multivitamin complex with minerals.. thats the
basic that everyone needs and should be taking for many reasons.
Multivitamins are made so that their ingredients compliment the
absorbtion of the other (example, seen the new Centrum commercial?).
Beyond the basics, there are other considerations. Why does your
friend feel the need to take extra B12? Do your own research for what
your body may need, not what others take or tell you that you should
take yada yada. I take many other extra supplements like EFA's,
antioxidents and additional minerals, just to name a few, but thats for
me, not you.
Here are two good links to get started on doing some homework on
vitamins and other supplements (reminder supplement definition means
'in addition to' - so eat healthy/right first and formost):
http://www.supplementwatch.com/suplib/
http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/items_index/1,1538,HS,00.html
And you might find alot of interesting info here as well:
http://www.lef.org/
and also: http://www.juvenon.com/science/overview.htm


joanne
 
sorry, this was my first time posting and my message didn't make
it...???
About three years ago I had shingles due to the stress of my husband's
illness. I was working for an MD who is also a Naturopathic Doc. She
told me if I took nothing else I should take vitamin C (she recommended
that I take E and multi-vitamin mineral supplement) She said to take
as much C as your body will allow and work up as the weeks go by. I
began taking 1000 with no problems with diahrea. I now take 4-5000 per
day and haven't even had the sniffles in those three years. I am sold
on taking C. It obviously helped my immune system.
I am enjoying this list as a lurker so far.... thanks to all...... cc
 
adak wrote:
> Howdy Chris,
>
> I guarantee that your friend is urinating excess vitamin B, every day.
> At a camp I worked at, we used B vitamins to help cut down on the
> mosquito's biting. In about a day and a half, you could smell the
> difference in your urine.
>
> (and to top it off, it was only effective against mosquitoes for a very
> short time, and not VERY effective, at any time).
>
> Fiber is basically NOT used for anything but a gentle "push" on the
> digestive tract. It isn't absorbed, but I'm sure it helps to "scrub"
> the lining of the intestines and colon, as it works it's way down.
> Don't think of it as needed for metabolism, however.

Fibre can be very bad for you. Specifically grain fibre which is way
too abrasive. Some wood turners (lathe operators) use wheat hulls to
abrade the wood to a smooth finish. I would never use wheat fibre as a
digestive aid.


>
> We DO need some fat in our diet, for healthy skin, hair, connective
> tissue, etc. As you know, there are good fats and bad fats, however.

We need lots of fats, and good animal fats from healthy animals is good
stuff.

>
> No ratio's between fiber and fat are relevant. The latter is used in
> metabolism, the former is just a cleaner/pusher to the **** shoot. If
> fiber were absorbed, it wouldn't have the mass to clean and push.

With enough good healthy fats in the diet, you will not need to push
anything with fibre. Since I've changed my diet to a low-carb, higher
protein, higher fat diet, I've not had any problems with constipation
or IBS, which were both a problem pre-low-carb. Regularity is no longer
a problem at all now, and it was before.

TC
 
Well, not quite.

Although we can't digest the fiber, the fiber can, in the course of
making it's way through the environments of the stomach and intestines,
actually soak up some of the nutritional elements which it contacts,
making it unavailable to us.

That's why too much fiber, like too much of darn near anything, is NOT
good for you. You need some fiber, sure, but you don't need a
truckload, daily. <grin> All this bit about fiber stopping the
development of cancers, etc., is mostly nonsense. Yes, it helps to
clean out the digestive tract, but it also slightly irritates the cells
which line the digestive tract, as it does so.

There's no magic to fiber, it's promoted like it would stop everything
from dandruff to athlete's feet - and that's just hype from the
agricultural industry, that has made many million$ because everybody is
adding more fiber to their diet.

Some fiber in your diet is good, but adding too much can actually be
harmful.

adak
 
Hi Adak/TC!


> Some fiber in your diet is good, but adding too much can actually be
> harmful.
>

Very interesting - I wasnt aware that too much fibre could be harmful. I
have to look into it a bit more. So, fibre helps the bowel movement and
cleans intestines, which influences how well nutrients in food is absorb
in the long run. But too much daily fibre can absorb nutrients (eg,
calcium) and irritate cells in the intestines...

OK - thanks guys!

Chris
 
Hi Joanne,

You said that:

> Eat healthy and take a multivitamin complex with minerals.. thats the
> basic that everyone needs and should be taking for many reasons.
> Multivitamins are made so that their ingredients compliment the
> absorbtion of the other (example, seen the new Centrum commercial?).

I am interested in which ingredients complement each other. Do you know
more about this?

> Beyond the basics, there are other considerations. Why does your
> friend feel the need to take extra B12? Do your own research for what
> your body may need, not what others take or tell you that you should
> take yada yada. I take many other extra supplements like EFA's,
> antioxidents and additional minerals, just to name a few, but thats for
> me, not you.

Absolutely, my aim is to find out for myself. I am just collecting
information in this newsgroup and hope to figure out whats good for me.
Again, my question is basic: If I significantly increase my
vitamin/mineral intake above the RDI, is my body actually able to
absorb/use the vitamins/minerals?
I am on a tight financial budget at the moment, I would spent money for
supplements that are not useful for me.

> Here are two good links to get started on doing some homework on
> vitamins and other supplements (reminder supplement definition means
> 'in addition to' - so eat healthy/right first and formost):
> http://www.supplementwatch.com/suplib/
> http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/items_index/1,1538,HS,00.html
> And you might find alot of interesting info here as well:
> http://www.lef.org/
> and also: http://www.juvenon.com/science/overview.htm
>
>
> joanne
 
cguttman wrote:

> I am on a tight financial budget at the moment, I would spent money for
> supplements that are not useful for me.

I nominate that for THE quote of the year.

You have my condolences.

Not only have you made screwy comments on this THREAD, but you have
managed to start more than one screwy THREAD. :(

It is really a total waste of our time to try to converse with someone
as rude and confused as you obviously are.

Why bother to eat food? You are only going to **** and **** most of it
out anyway, according to your line of logic. No money for pills, but
you apparently got plenty to waste on protein.

If all the protein that you eat isn't being utilized for all the ****
that your confused mind thinks that protein is needed for, why are are
you so interested in consuming excessive amounts of it?

Yeah, Right, ... Sure: Too cheap to spend money on books, or to
research the issue on the web the old fashion way with hard time
consuming work, but you are too important in your own mind to consume
protein on anything less than the perfect schedule. Yeah .... right
Buddy you are wasting money if your body does not use 100% of what it
consumes.

Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

LOL Where do these rubes come from?
 
"cguttman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> there are many vitamin and mineral supplements out there these days. Lets
> assume that we actually need more vitamins and minerals than the
> recommended daily intake (RDI). I wonder if our body is actually able to
> absorb and use these additional nutrients? For example, a friend of mine
> is taking 120 times the RDI of vitamin B12, but I wonder can his body
> really absorb this large amount? To what extend do fibre or fat-soluble
> vitamins play a role in nutrient absorbtion?
>
> Take two extreme situations: 1) you eat only vitamin and mineral pills the
> whole day, and 2) you eat only food with few minerals and vitamins (e.g.,
> junk food). Your body probably uses just as many nutrients in both cases.
> In case 1, your body cannot use all the vitamins and minerals, because you
> need fibre and fat and other things (I dont know which other things). In
> case 2, you may have eaten sufficient fibre and fat, but not enough
> vitamins and minerals. Both cases lead to a deficiency of minerals and
> vitamins. Is this correct?
>
> So, this implies that a good way to make use of vitamins and minerals is
> by eating enough fibre and fat - in a balanced ratio. However, I actually
> don't know the factors that contribute to the absorption of nutrients
> (except the above mentioned: fibre and fat), and I don't know how much of
> these absorbtion factors is necessary to actually use a certain amount of
> minerals and vitamins.
>
> Does anyone know?
>
> Chris
>
> PS: I am asking, because I am thinking of buying some supplements, but
> there is no point spending a lot of money if the supplements literally are
> flushed down the toilet.

All nutrients are troublesome in doses larger than the DRI. Check Vitamin C
particularly.
Institute of Medicine (2001) "Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients"
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/300/0.pdf Downloaded September 21,
2004

Institute of Medicine (2001) "Dietary Reference Intakes: Vitamins"
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/296/0.pdf Downloaded September 21,
2004

Institute of Medicine. (2001) "Dietary Reference Intakes: Elements"
http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/294/0.pdf Downloaded September 21,
2004
 
I think there are some supplements that are useless and you should never take too many. I just take a multivitamin, actigin for endurance, and beast creature for creatine.
 
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