Another proteam breaks 'gentlemans agreement'.



foxvi

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Aug 23, 2004
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What no reaction from TMO, CSC, Madiot, Holczer, Lefevere, UCI and a hounding by the media about this signing?

On Monday, Lampre signed Giampaulo Caruso who was implicated under Opuerto and now cleared. It is so hypocritical of the above but of course silly me this signing does not involve Basso or Ullrich. Dont get me wrong I am glad Caruso has signed for a team but it makes me so angry.
 
foxvi said:
What no reaction from TMO, CSC, Madiot, Holczer, Lefevere, UCI and a hounding by the media about this signing?

On Monday, Lampre signed Giampaulo Caruso who was implicated under Opuerto and now cleared. It is so hypocritical of the above but of course silly me this signing does not involve Basso or Ullrich. Dont get me wrong I am glad Caruso has signed for a team but it makes me so angry.
Completely agree with you
 
What precisely was the gist of the gentlemen's agreement? If it was binding, why was it not written down and signed by everybody?
 
musette said:
What precisely was the gist of the gentlemen's agreement? If it was binding, why was it not written down and signed by everybody?
You bring up a good point. This is a sport where everyone dopes and lies about it, and the teams know it. This meeting of "gentlemen" could never have taken place, because there are no gentlemen who could possibly have been involved.

Alternatively, if there was a meeting and an agreement among all these weasels, those who relied upon it to their detriment are stupid men indeed, and deserve what they get.

All I know is it's Lance's fault, the *******.
 
"What gentleman's agreement?" I gotta agree. Its hard to think that riders are doping and teams don't know anything about it. Now you have this righteous indignation. I take it with a grain of salt...and a magarita.
There isn't innocent until proven guilty in Operatation Puerto. There's guilty and...maybe somewhere down the line we'll get back with you with some evidence.
I believe in being thourogh, but if they wait until the start of next season to show the findings....I mean, what else do they have to do?
 
foxvi said:
What no reaction from TMO, CSC, Madiot, Holczer, Lefevere, UCI and a hounding by the media about this signing?

On Monday, Lampre signed Giampaulo Caruso who was implicated under
Opuerto and now cleared. It is so hypocritical of the above but of course silly me this signing does not involve Basso or Ullrich. Dont get me wrong I am glad Caruso has signed for a team but it makes me so angry.

It has been reported that he is willing to give his DNA
FROM CYCLINGNEWS.COM
Mori and Caruso sign with Lampre-Fondital
The Italian-based ProTour team Lampre-Fondital is completing its 2007 roster by signing Toscano Massimiliano Mori and Siciliano Giampaolo Caruso, making 23 riders. According to La Gazzetta dello Sport, the two will sign for the team of Giuseppe Saronni in the next day.

The 32 year-old Mori, expected to sign today, spent the last season with Naturino-Sapore di Mare, while 26 year-old Caruso, set to sign tomorrow, had a turbulent year with Astaná. Caruso was linked with Operación Puerto but has since been giving the green light to race. Both riders have authorized the submission of their DNA to the team



MARINO
 
Most of you must be unaware of the second gentleman's agreement. This is that the first agreement will be overlooked if a particularly good deal can be had. They are, after all, team managers with budgets to plan.

Truth is, Puerto was all a sham put on by the DS's to lower salary requirements. It is no coincidence that the two highest paid cyclists in the peloton were specifically targeted.

Hey, this conspiracy theory stuff can be fun!
 
JohnO said:
Most of you must be unaware of the second gentleman's agreement. This is that the first agreement will be overlooked if a particularly good deal can be had. They are, after all, team managers with budgets to plan.

Truth is, Puerto was all a sham put on by the DS's to lower salary requirements. It is no coincidence that the two highest paid cyclists in the peloton were specifically targeted.

Hey, this conspiracy theory stuff can be fun!
You mean the new theory that there was another doping lab on the grassy knoll?
But you gotta point about the team managers and budgets. Look at all the talent the second tier teams have been pulling in since OP.
 
The upshot is that we're back to the same two-speed pelotons - because not all teams will provide their DNA, as was agreed by the team managers earlier.

This is the sort of issue on which the UCI ought to act NOW - they ought to insist that all teams/riders provide DNA.
There is no point in only a percentage of teams being willing to do so.
 
I team might withhold DNA not because they are doping, but because they object on privacy grounds and do not have full confidence in how WADA/UCI will use the DNA once supplied. Either reason is legitimate and reasonable.
 
musette said:
I team might withhold DNA not because they are doping, but because they object on privacy grounds and do not have full confidence in how WADA/UCI will use the DNA once supplied. Either reason is legitimate and reasonable.

Neither reason is reasonable or legitimate.

Not legitimate because the team's unwillingness to supply DNA creates the perception that it has something to hide. (and invariably they do have soemthing to hide - as we know from Armstrong, Heras, Landis, Hamilton),

Also not reasonable either because other teams are willing to make a full disclosure in an effort to assert their riding clean.

Assumption of innocence died since 1998 at the Festina scandal.
 
musette said:
I team might withhold DNA not because they are doping, but because they object on privacy grounds and do not have full confidence in how WADA/UCI will use the DNA once supplied. Either reason is legitimate and reasonable.
It's only technical problems. Arrangements, alternatives, ... are always possible, I do think.
 
poulidor said:
It's only technical problems. Arrangements, alternatives, ... are always possible, I do think.
Exactly. If the cyclists did want to clean up their sport, they should come up with alternative ideas (other than DNA) as opposed to whining about the ethics clause and DNA testing. It would bring them also tons of good media exposure.
 
limerickman said:
Neither reason is reasonable or legitimate.

Not legitimate because the team's unwillingness to supply DNA creates the perception that it has something to hide. (and invariably they do have soemthing to hide - as we know from Armstrong, Heras, Landis, Hamilton),

Also not reasonable either because other teams are willing to make a full disclosure in an effort to assert their riding clean.

Assumption of innocence died since 1998 at the Festina scandal.
I agree 100%. The sport is in a precarious state, and "business as usual" isn't adequate under the current circumstances. I was encouraged to read that Jan may now be willing to provide a DNA sample, if required.
 
I still go back to what I posted the other day. Procycling has enough rules. They simply need to be enforced. After giving this plenty of thought,my opinion is that procycling has been lax in enforcement for many years. At least since 1970. There are many reasons for this....... The cycling organizations have to put a good product on the table for the fans. And they have done this. Other then civil authorities making busts, the fans would have no concept of the doping problem. And doping is only a problem when it becomes an issue.. Back in the earlier days the only outrage against dopers was the issue of nationality. Eddy still blames the Italians for his positive in Italy. He never denied the other positives, but that one he has mantioned. So maybe he was innocent in Italy.

I am on the fence for DNA testing. {for anyone in society] It truly is an invasion of the privacy of the rider. Talking about DNA testing makes the UCI and TDF sound as if they are concerned with doping. But their concern is the image cycling projects. But if the UCI did the correct job in the beginning, DNA would not be necessary.
 
You have to fix the system before you fix the riders. The system is so screwed up that official doping inquiries leave more questions than answers. Then people lose faith and the ones who are doping and get caught have an excuse ("The lab screwed up my sample.").
My guess is that some riders don't want DNA because they are doping, but others don't trust the system. If UCI can't come up with an enforcable system, why bother giving DNA?
 
People talk about this DNA testing as if it were a silver bullet against doping. It isn't. It won't detect EPO, or test, or HGH. The only possible practical application would be if riders were storing their blood, and the stored blood was found by the authorities. In other words, Puerto.

That won't happen again - dopers didn't run rings around the current tests by being stupid. Blood storage will become more secretive and secure, possibly in a smaller nation that isn't so respectful of international law. If you're making 2-5 mil a year, a private jet is already at your disposal.

All this talk about DNA samples is just desperate people going through the motions. It won't stop doping, and probably won't stop blood doping.
 
JohnO said:
People talk about this DNA testing as if it were a silver bullet against doping. It isn't. It won't detect EPO, or test, or HGH. The only possible practical application would be if riders were storing their blood, and the stored blood was found by the authorities. In other words, Puerto.
Not only. If you find some syringes in rubbish, you can easily identify riders and drugs too!
That won't happen again - dopers didn't run rings around the current tests by being stupid. Blood storage will become more secretive and secure, possibly in a smaller nation that isn't so respectful of international law. If you're making 2-5 mil a year, a private jet is already at your disposal.
How many riders can pay for this?
Cops and thieves is a without end story as sworn and shield.
 

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