Beloki losing rear tire... Tubular problem?

[Tim McNamara]

In article <BB397B8C.4A22C%[email protected]>, Jim Edgar <[email protected]> wrote:

> But, I've also heard him mis-call riders on a regular basis, and I think they would definitely
> edit that out, given the chance.

Nothing compared to David Duffield, however. Although I actually quite like Duffers's commentary, I
have to admit.

 

[Ken]

[email protected] (Andrew Bradley) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> If front brake only is the way, then a lot of racers are getting it wrong. I speculate that most
> racers would react with both brakes in an emergency like that.

Normal procedure in an emergency is to slam on both brakes, then ease up if you start to skid.
Skidding for a fraction of a second is rarely a problem.

 

[Precious Pup]

DiabloScott wrote:
>

> Armstrong said in his interview with Frankie Andreu that Beloki's tire rolled and THEN it blew up.

Maybe. He would probably remember if the tire popped _before_ Beloki hit the ground.

> No way a clincher would do that of course...

It was a clincher, blowup of VN pic follows:

http://www.phys.uu.nl/~dronkert/cycling/beloki14072003.jpg

I've had a clincher pop before I hit the ground in a crash. My front rim deformed from hitting an
object. The deformation was sufficient to allow the high pressure tube to pop at the deformation
point, which at least in part contributed to the crash. Inspection of the tube and rim after the
crash revealed only one locus of sharp rim deformation; the tube was popped in precisely the same
place that this sharp deformation existed.

In relating this to Beloki's crash, the swing of his rear wheel, and a consequent "lateral sticking"
of the wheel, could have caused a rim deformation while he was still upright. The tube could've
popped right then. Bike wheels are not too strong laterally.

Remembering, or even seeing, whether the tire rolled and then popped, or popped and then rolled
might be a tall order.


> ...but Lance might not be remembering everything exactly as it happened either. I couldn't find
> who ONCE's tire sponsors are. Some Michelin-sponsored teams have a deal to only ride clinchers.

 

[Richard]

You must not live in the mid-west USA! Oh how we wish tar went out 50-60 years ago...

Read a report on one of the sites that, while fish-tailing, Beloki hit a patch of melted tar. The
melted tar grabbed the wheel, which resulted in a nearly violent change of direction. It probably
was a major contributor to the injuries.

Bill Davidson <[email protected]> wrote in news:JyFQa.23$He.15@fed1read03:

> Sheldon Brown wrote:
>> Could be, but it could also be that the rolled tub was effect, not pause.
>>
>
> A lot of people were talking about tar on the road melting and making it slippery. Who the hell
> still uses tar for pavement? I thought that went out 50-60 years ago.

 

[Todd Kuzma]

Precious Pup wrote:
>
> It was a clincher, blowup of VN pic follows:
>
> http://www.phys.uu.nl/~dronkert/cycling/beloki14072003.jpg

I wish that there was some sort of official confirmation of what tire he was using. This debate has
gone on and on. As I have pointed out earlier, most of the tire remains on the rim as a rolled
tubular would, and the wheel looks identical to the Campagnolo Hyperons that Beloki and most of the
ONCE squad are using. They are available only in a tubular version.

The picture above doesn't show the detail necessary to determine if it is a clincher or tubular.

Todd Kuzma

 

[Jim Edgar]

Tim McNamara at [email protected] wrote on 7/15/03 11:55 AM:

> In article <BB397B8C.4A22C%[email protected]>, Jim Edgar <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But, I've also heard him mis-call riders on a regular basis, and I think they would definitely
>> edit that out, given the chance.
>
> Nothing compared to David Duffield, however. Although I actually quite like Duffers's commentary,
> I have to admit.

... oh... my... god... NOOOOOO!!! ;^)

the times that I've heard Duffield's prattle, he could have been watching something completely
different - first off, they should subtitle him...

Also, rereading my statement above, it comes across a bit harsher than it was meant. Phil gets it
right most of the time.

-- Jim

 

[Fred Clydesdale]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Andrew
Bradley) wrote:

> Dual pivot brakes on the back are lethal.

second that. first time i had to stop quick with my dual pivots i was all over the place. took me
10-20 rides to get it under control, and now that i've got a bike with "differential" (read: "more
normal") brakes and one with full dual-pivot, i'm constantly having to tell myself "take it easy on
the brakes, fred."

 

[B A R R Y B U R]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:41:07 -0500, Todd Kuzma <[email protected]> wrote:

>Nearly all of the township roads in our area are "chip and seal" roads. The cost of any other type
>of pavement is prohibitive for these lightly traveled farm roads.

Chip-seal is pretty popular in New England as well.

Barry

 

[Dianne_1234]

[email protected] (Andrew Bradley) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Stergios Papadakis:
>
> > I watched the video again, and Lance does skid the rear while trying to avoid the crash. He gets
> > a little bit sideways while on the lighter-colored pavement, but his wheel catches again on the
> > dark patch and he straightens out.
>
> If front brake only is the way, then a lot of racers are getting it wrong. I speculate that most
> racers would react with both brakes in an emergency like that.
>
> Dual pivot brakes on the back are lethal.
>
> Andrew Bradley

Aren't Once using Campy's single pivot rear brakes?

 

[G.Daniels]

one copy of Blake, one copy of newton, one of epic cureus to Beloki!! and a photo of walenda
crossing the square at St john's.

 

[Precious Pup]

Todd Kuzma wrote:
>

> The picture above doesn't show the detail necessary to determine if it is a clincher or tubular.

Look at the shadow.

 

[Raptor]

Jay Beattie wrote:
> Beloki may have felt that the pavement was so slippery that he had to use his rear break -- or
> risk skidding his front wheel. I cannot believe that a racer of his caliber knows less about
> braking than we do on RBT. I think he made a choice that turned out to be wrong for a split
> second. -- Jay Beattie.

I think most of us have probably been in that situation, bombing a descent and hitting a corner too
hot. You panic for a split-second which gets your fingers working the brakes right quick, then try
to control your bike through it. If there's a banana peel under your rear tire at the instant you
panic, you end up hurting badly.

It doesn't matter how many miles you have under you, if the desire to go fast overrides getting to
the bottom in one piece at the wrong instant, you too can kiss the pavement.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

 

[Todd Kuzma]

Precious Pup wrote:
>
> Todd Kuzma wrote:
>
>>The picture above doesn't show the detail necessary to determine if it is a clincher or tubular.
>
> Look at the shadow.

Yes, a tubular rim will make a similar shadow.

Todd Kuzma

 

[Precious Pup]

Mike Latondresse wrote:
>
> Precious Pup <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > It was a clincher, blowup of VN pic follows:
> >
> > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~dronkert/cycling/beloki14072003.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> If it is a blown clincher were is the tube? I think if it was a clincher you would see tube shards
> hanging out somewhere.

Why?

 

[Steve Blankensh]

"Todd Kuzma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Precious Pup wrote:
> >
> > Todd Kuzma wrote:
> >
> >>The picture above doesn't show the detail necessary to determine if it is a clincher or tubular.
> >
> > Look at the shadow.
>
> Yes, a tubular rim will make a similar shadow.
>

Give it up, Todd; these guys wouldn't recognize Campy Hyperon wheels if the whole Once team ran over
them with theirs... ;-)

 

[Todd Kuzma]

Steve Blankenship wrote:
> "Todd Kuzma" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Precious Pup wrote:
>>
>>>Todd Kuzma wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The picture above doesn't show the detail necessary to determine if it is a clincher or tubular.
>>>
>>>Look at the shadow.
>>
>>Yes, a tubular rim will make a similar shadow.
>>
> Give it up, Todd; these guys wouldn't recognize Campy Hyperon wheels if the whole Once team ran
> over them with theirs... ;-)

Hey, if there is conclusive evidence somewhere that this is a clincher, I'm willing to concede.
However, Beloki and the rest of the ONCE boys ride Hyperons, the wheels in the accident pics look
just like Hyperons, and I'm not sure why Beloki would switch to clinchers for the mountains.

Todd Kuzma

 

[DiabloScott]

Originally posted by Todd Kuzma
Steve Blankenship wrote:

> Give it up, Todd; these guys wouldn't recognize Campy Hyperon wheels if the whole Once team ran
> over them with theirs... ;-)

Hey, if there is conclusive evidence somewhere that this is a clincher, I'm willing to concede.
However, Beloki and the rest of the ONCE boys ride Hyperons, the wheels in the accident pics look
just like Hyperons, and I'm not sure why Beloki would switch to clinchers for the mountains.

Todd Kuzma

There is only one thing about that photo that makes it look NOT like a tubular and that's the appearance of rim tape on the wheel. There's no way base tape would separate from the tire and stay on the rim like that (not on a relatively new tire anyway), so it's not base tape. It sure looks white so I have a hard time believing that it's glue. I suppose the TUFO tape is a possibility but I doubt if that stuff sees much use at the pro level I bet team ONCE uses regular glue.

So, yes it's a sew-up but what is that white stuff? Answer that question and you'll convince the non-believers.

 

[Mike Latondress]

Precious Pup <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
>
> Mike Latondresse wrote:
>>
>> Precious Pup <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>> >
>> > It was a clincher, blowup of VN pic follows:
>> >
>> > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~dronkert/cycling/beloki14072003.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> If it is a blown clincher were is the tube? I think if it was a clincher you would see tube
>> shards hanging out somewhere.
>
> Why?
>

Because a tubie may still be contained after a blowout while a clincher that pops off the rim has
shreaded bits of tube visible, at least the two wheels I had that wore through the sidewall and had
a blowout did.

 

[Todd Kuzma]

DiabloScott wrote:

> So, yes it's a sew-up but what is that white stuff? Answer that question and you'll convince the
> non-believers.

Glue. I just went to look at a Zipp carbon rim that I just removed a sew-up from. I used
Continental glue, and the bed of the rim is definitely a light yellow/brown color. This is
especially true in a good light. The sun reflecting off of a good base of similar glue would look
what is seen in the picture.

Todd

 

[Precious Pup]

Mike Latondresse wrote:
>
> Precious Pup <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> >
> > Mike Latondresse wrote:
> >>
> >> Precious Pup <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > It was a clincher, blowup of VN pic follows:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.phys.uu.nl/~dronkert/cycling/beloki14072003.jpg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> If it is a blown clincher were is the tube? I think if it was a clincher you would see tube
> >> shards hanging out somewhere.
> >
> > Why?
> >
>
> Because a tubie may still be contained after a blowout while a clincher that pops off the rim has
> shreaded bits of tube visible, at least the two wheels I had that wore through the sidewall and
> had a blowout did.

For my crash, which I described, it was not.