W
William Morse
Guest
r norman <rsn_@_comcast.net> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:46:39 +0000 (UTC), Tim Tyler
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Because of global competion for nutrients, organisms do
>>not have to be in the same environment or physical
>>location to be in competition with one another.
>>
>>I.e. those resources that are tied up in the form of
>> forests should be subtracted from the pool of
>> resorces available for forming bacteria.
>>
>>It is true that - at the moment - complex life is doing
>>rather better on land than in the sea. However, that
>>situation is probaly not going to last for very long. We
>>can expect some serious reinvasions of the ocean as the
>>land continues to fill up with complex organisms.
> You persist in these strange ideas. Probably the most
> critical nutrient (in the sense that it is usually a
> limiting factor in growth) is nitrogen and the only source
> for usable nitrogen by complex multicellular organisms is
> nitrogen fixation by bacteria. All other limiting
> nutrients like phosphorus or iron or whatever other trace
> mineral are usable only when dissolved in water and then
> the bacteria really do get first crack at them. Only in a
> tropical rain forest do you find nutrients primarily tied
> up in multicellular organisms and there they are almost
> entirely in plants, certainly not animals. Again may I
> remind you that this habitat, impressive as it is, forms
> only a tiny fraction of the biotic world.
Actually the total contribution of nitrogen to the nutrient
cycle from anthropogenic sources (fertilizer production,
fossil fuel combustion, and legume cultivation) is currently
approximately equal to the amount of natural fixation.
Unlike carbon dioxide, the potential impacts of this has
received little attention in the popular press. The impact
of anthropogenic phosphate production (also significant in
comparison to natural phosphorus cycles) is probably better
recognized by the public, although phosphate is generally
the limiting nutrient only in fresh water environments. I
would also note that, in those environments, rooted aquatic
plants and floating macrophytes such as duckweed frequently
outcompete cyanobacteria and unicellular algae for the
available phosphorus.
Now as to the thrust of Tim's argument that we will soon
replace the nutrient cycling function of bacteria, I am
somewhat dubious - but partly because I think it will prove
cheaper to utilize existing natural cycles than to try to
take over all these functions with technology. This argument
reminds me of the dichotomy between Planet Managers and
Planet Fetishers described by Evan Eisenberg in "The Ecology
of Eden". Either technology will save us or the return to
nature will triumph. Eisenberg thinks we need to find a
middle way, and I tend to agree with him.
Yours,
Bill Morse
news:[email protected]:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:46:39 +0000 (UTC), Tim Tyler
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Because of global competion for nutrients, organisms do
>>not have to be in the same environment or physical
>>location to be in competition with one another.
>>
>>I.e. those resources that are tied up in the form of
>> forests should be subtracted from the pool of
>> resorces available for forming bacteria.
>>
>>It is true that - at the moment - complex life is doing
>>rather better on land than in the sea. However, that
>>situation is probaly not going to last for very long. We
>>can expect some serious reinvasions of the ocean as the
>>land continues to fill up with complex organisms.
> You persist in these strange ideas. Probably the most
> critical nutrient (in the sense that it is usually a
> limiting factor in growth) is nitrogen and the only source
> for usable nitrogen by complex multicellular organisms is
> nitrogen fixation by bacteria. All other limiting
> nutrients like phosphorus or iron or whatever other trace
> mineral are usable only when dissolved in water and then
> the bacteria really do get first crack at them. Only in a
> tropical rain forest do you find nutrients primarily tied
> up in multicellular organisms and there they are almost
> entirely in plants, certainly not animals. Again may I
> remind you that this habitat, impressive as it is, forms
> only a tiny fraction of the biotic world.
Actually the total contribution of nitrogen to the nutrient
cycle from anthropogenic sources (fertilizer production,
fossil fuel combustion, and legume cultivation) is currently
approximately equal to the amount of natural fixation.
Unlike carbon dioxide, the potential impacts of this has
received little attention in the popular press. The impact
of anthropogenic phosphate production (also significant in
comparison to natural phosphorus cycles) is probably better
recognized by the public, although phosphate is generally
the limiting nutrient only in fresh water environments. I
would also note that, in those environments, rooted aquatic
plants and floating macrophytes such as duckweed frequently
outcompete cyanobacteria and unicellular algae for the
available phosphorus.
Now as to the thrust of Tim's argument that we will soon
replace the nutrient cycling function of bacteria, I am
somewhat dubious - but partly because I think it will prove
cheaper to utilize existing natural cycles than to try to
take over all these functions with technology. This argument
reminds me of the dichotomy between Planet Managers and
Planet Fetishers described by Evan Eisenberg in "The Ecology
of Eden". Either technology will save us or the return to
nature will triumph. Eisenberg thinks we need to find a
middle way, and I tend to agree with him.
Yours,
Bill Morse