Evidence overwhelmingly indicates Greg LeMond Doped....



I saw Lemond riding / racing in the Tour Dupont when he was with Zen. He was dead last on the climbs in Central Virginia, which were being classified as cat 4 climbs. Dead last is no exaggeration, just in front of the broom wagon. Weekend riders were going as fast as he was. Two months later he is doing great in the TDF, especially in the mountains. I do not believe for a moment that PEDs were not being used by all of the riders in that era, including Lemond and his "B12" shots. Doping still exists in cycling and other sports because there is so much money at stake.
 
Originally Posted by altec123
I saw Lemond riding / racing in the Tour Dupont when he was with Zen. He was dead last on the climbs in Central Virginia, which were being classified as cat 4 climbs. Dead last is no exaggeration, just in front of the broom wagon. Weekend riders were going as fast as he was. Two months later he is doing great in the TDF, especially in the mountains. I do not believe for a moment that PEDs were not being used by all of the riders in that era, including Lemond and his "B12" shots. Doping still exists in cycling and other sports because there is so much money at stake.
Exactly, thank you. Gert Jakobs, Matthieu Hermans, Steven Rooks and others all admitted to EPO use during that era. EPO was FDA approved in the U.S. in the summer of 1989(meaning it was available before that in Europe). Of course that era used EPO. And anyone that was anemic with a good doctor certainly had it offered to them.
 
Easy to get and easy to use anemia as the cover story. While Lemond was a great cyclist, I think that most of his issues with Armstrong were not because of the doping but because of how well Armstrong did off the bike. In other words he was jealous of Armstrong, who was well managed off the bike and became very wealthy. Lemond lost tons of money because he let his father mange his affairs. Lemond was also jealous of his star fading as the greatest American cyclist of all time. He could not just fade away from the limelight and had to stay front and center in the public eye.

He could not admit that he was getting too old to be competitive in races anymore, but had to come up with some BS excuse of a rare disease that impacts the muscle cells. Anyone knows that these guys hit the wall in their early thirties. A claim could be made that Lemond cheated when he beat Fignon in the final TT in Paris. If he had not been using aero technology, he would not have one on the last day by a few seconds. Lemond started the technology rush, which has really ruined pro cycling in many ways, as it is more about the bike and less about the rider. Lets see what happens when everyone is racing identical bikes, with the only modification allowed being the size of the frame.

I am not a Lemond hater or a Armstrong fanboy, but I do not believe that Lemond was clean. I suspect that doping is still going on, but the technology to detect it is not keeping up with the science. Personally, I do not think that receiving transfusions of your own blood is not bad, as long as the blood has not been altered thru chemistry. Did they ever figure out what Landis was taking on the day he came back in the mountains? It sure was not testosterone, because you do not get results like that with testosterone.
 
Quote by altec123:
" Anyone knows that these guys hit the wall in their early thirties."

Tell that to Chris Horner and Jens Voigt.

A claim could be made that Lemond cheated when he beat Fignon in the final TT in Paris. If he had not been using aero technology, he would not have one on the last day by a few seconds. Lemond started the technology rush, which has really ruined pro cycling in many ways, as it is more about the bike and less about the rider. Lets see what happens when everyone is racing identical bikes, with the only modification allowed being the size of the frame."

Everyone pretty much is on the same plane, as far as bike tech goes. Sure, the low budget teams may have some mis-matched components, but the professional level teams all get the same stuff. Which is to say it's 95% or so the same stuff you and I can run out and buy, too.


"Did they ever figure out what Landis was taking on the day he came back in the mountains?"

T. T aids recovery IIRC. What else Floyd was doing? Who knows, but his other samples also tested hot for T/E ratio.

From Wiki:
"Landis gave a total of eight samples during the 2006 Tour de France. As part of its prosecution, USADA had remaining "B" portions of the other samples tested by the French laboratory. Four of those samples also showed the presence of synthetic testosterone.[23]"
 
TDF riders do go bad in their early 30's as far as being competitive and being on the podium.

When Lemond beat Fignon, Lemond had a technology advantage. Sure the teams are even now, but then it was not even.

Testosterone would not have explained the recovery that Landis experienced in one day.
 
Yes it is really sad that doping effects the cyclist in such a harsh manner. I do not think that this should be things should proceed for a cyclists. They work hard for what they do.
 
I believe lemons raced clean. That being said, I met him once back in 89 and he was a super d-bag. I appreciate what he did for cycling in America and he was an incredible cyclist but I despise him.

Armstrong may have raced dirty, but it was a level playing field. You could not convince me anyone raced clean in that era or even this one. Still don't think cycling is clean. Armstrong might be a controlling a$$-hat but he was brilliant to watch. I don't understand why he has been vilified like he has been. You condem a man for cheating better than everyone else... Ludacris.
 
Quote by ABN:
"I don't understand why he has been vilified like he has been."

I explain it by the feminization of males in Western society. Bunch of cry babies.
 
Whatever the outcome maybe of the forthcoming investigations into the Lance Armstrong saga, it is too bad that LeMond won't be remembered for being a great cyclist, but instead as a great whiner & in the process turned into a pathetic curmudgeon. He’s been bested & ousted from his perch as the best cyclist ever to come out from America - deal with it.

While Greg throws insult after insult, hoping for it to stick to something, Lance is able to remain calm and let Greg lose his reputation. Lance keeps the higher ground and doesn't in dignify himself with a fight. If they both got into it verbally, nobody would look good.

With the same amount of proof that has been brought to light against Lance, I charge LeMond of doping as well.


- Explain, how in the course of a couple of days, mid 1989, he could go from being shelled out the back at even dropped by the sprinters in the mountains of the Giro to finishing on the podium during the final time trial - and then going onto win the Tour and the Worlds. Seeing Greg go up the final climb in the worlds just made a complete mockery of everyone in the race. An impressive piece of big gear climbing. The first half of the season is a complete disaster for Greg with many races not even finished and then "oh, I have an iron deficiency". I almost remember Greg almost quiting pro cycling during the early part of 1989 and his mystery overnight "recovery" from aenemia by vitamin B12 and iron shots from his soigneur, Otto, and coming back into form. Having suffered from aenemia and gone through similar 'shots' I know, like many others, that you don't just recover mystically overnight, or even over a few days... If Greg was given something, knowingly or not, for anemia and the resulting low hematocrit and hgb and it worked really fast - it certainly wasn't "iron shots". I could think of something that was out in the pro peloton that'd fit a rapid increase of performance. When you're dropped on all the mountain stages and do very poorly in the prologue and the first time trial of the Giro but 'mystically' come back for a podium finish in the final time trial then something, somewhere happened. So what did miraculously turn his form around overnight & what did he take?. I claim EPO. When you're talking about quitting the sport you know things are really bad.

- Gregs' increase in performance from a few shots of vitamins and iron in the hiney does not compute. Insinuate from that what you will... EPO might take weeks but there's always transfusions...

- And for someone who rides as hard as Greg, I don’t buy it for one second he rode it as training, look at his resume pre ’89, riding hard in every event.

- Whatever happened to the LeMond line of bicycles? That's right. It was sold to Trek which later became a sponsor of and exclusive builder for the United States Postal squad. As I recall that team had a fairly good American rider on it and soon after it began its association with U.S. Postal the LeMond line of bicycles practically disappeared off the face of the planet. I wonder if Mr. LeMond finds that annoying? Answer: YES! He sued Trek in 2008 and Trek counter-sued to sever the business relationship with LeMond because nobody wants to buy a bike with that mewling turds name painted on it. Yet another reason for LeMond's hatred of his better and his desire to see druggie Floyd succeed in destroying Armstrong? Get a life Greg, you use to be just irrelevant but now most American cycling fans think your a pathetic desperate loser.

- In his the book "Bad Blood", he seems to indicate he left the Tour because he could not keep up with the r-EPO era cyclists. Didn’t stop him challenging the dopers of Fignon &co of ’89 & ’90. The drug testing starts advancing & its suddenly “he could not keep up with the r-EPO era cyclists of ’94. BS.

- I remember one exchange between Greg and Lance when Lance said something like the following to Greg: "How is it that you have the fastest time trial ever in the Tour de France?" Greg didn't have much of a response. It's a good question though since if everyone was doping at the time and Greg's time trial was still faster, he's either genetically from another planet or he was also doping when he rode that time trial.

- He beat a man (Fignon) who has since admitted to doping in 1989. He had the fastest time trial of that length or greater for many years (including all the years he claimed were full of dopers) DESPITE the fact that if you watch it, he's rocking all over the place and very un-aero and using a flexier bike than today. He made up 58 seconds on Laurent Fignon (confessed doper), ultimately winning the race by 8 seconds. YEAH RIGHT.

- Were Fignon ('89) and Chiapucci ('90) denied their rightful place as winners of the TdF in 1989 and 1990 by an EPO doper? You need to answer these questions Mr. LeMond.

One big piece of "evidence" he gives for proving he was dope free and others doped was how just one year after he won the TDF, suddenly he was finishing in the pack and beaten by others he'd beaten his whole career. But, in 1990 Lemond won with an average speed of 38.621 kph. The next year, the Big Mig won at an avg speed of 38.747 kph. That's a 0.3% difference. 1/3 of a percent.

- As well, his claim that him finishing 7th the next year, and thus was beaten by dopers, doesn't hold up. If Big Mig was a doper, then wouldn't Lemond's claim also hold true for him? But Big Mig won 5 years in a row and then the next year was 11th, even bigger of a drop off than Lemond.

LeMond portrays himself as Mr. squeaky clean but like so many other riders, hes dirty as the next rider, make no quarms about it. So look on the bright side -- at least someone is "probing" Armstrong – unfortunately it's not you!.

I know a little about this sort of case. At the time Lemond was shot (April '87) the world blood banking systems were completely shut down because some sort of disease was infecting anyone who got a transfusion. This turned out to be HIV and was caused because infected persons would often donate blood for money in order to pay their burgeoning medical bills.

They did not know that their illnesses were infectious because the symptoms were so widely varied. And the disease did not infect those around them unless it was via shared needles, homosexual sex or long term heterosexual sex. This is extremely difficult to detect as infectious.

In any case a researcher at the Pasteur Institute identified the HIV virus but it was extremely difficult to identify. In the US Dr. Kary Mullis invented the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) method of identification.

I did the electronics design and programming and Dr. Michael McCown was the project leader and chief chemist to oversee the project. We were successful and eventually the blood banking systems were cleared.

However that didn't help Lemond. His gunshot injury occurred right at the time that the blood banks were closed and it was the type of injury in which Greg lost a great deal of blood.

I don't know how much you know about the physiology of bicycle racing but it kills a LOT of blood cells. Greg's injury and then his constant training would have left him on the very edge of having insufficient red blood cells practically from the time of his injury until his poor racing performances.

If you recall, Greg's doctor told him he an iron deficiency. But there is every chance that the doctor would not tell him what was going on because he was a world renown bike racer who couldn't be tainted with the possibility of using drugs.

EPO had just been developed and I suspect that he was given EPO without his knowledge. However in defense of this, because the blood banks were closed, using this drug would have been the proper medical treatments and could have been perfectly legal under UCI rules of the time.

So claiming that Lemond used drugs is specious. IF he was given EPO it was a medical treatment and Lemond had always stood strongly against any doping.
 

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