Gentle morning commute... Grrr

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by PeteSig, Feb 10, 2008.

  1. PeteSig

    PeteSig Guest

    Riding into work today was feeling pretty good. The eighth day in a row of
    cycling, headed out with plenty of speed, negotiating the first few traffic
    bottlenecks smoothly.

    Then approaching the Whitehorse Rd crossing, moving well, clear of traffic
    with the green light, just one car waiting to turn right. Then...

    WTF! Whoah! The car is heading straight at me! Visions of me and my bike
    crashing across the bonnet. I hit the brakes hard, and the bike skids and
    spins. Unfortunate that it was to the left, into the line of the car's
    direction! We come to a halt with my bike in front of the car - back wheel
    just a centimetre or two from his bumper

    Probably not a good move, but involuntarily I let fly with a stream of abuse
    "What the f*%$!! Where did you get your licence? Out of a f*(%ing weeties
    packet!" I walked clear, across the intersection, just a tad shaken. Nothing
    from the driver, no wave, no aggro (good I guess) no sorry. Typical!

    So to the inscrutable oriental gentleman, in the red/brown 1980s Mitsubishi
    Magna - you are an insult! You need to wake up and develop some driving
    competencies

    Rest of the ride was much more peaceful. Even got a nice draft off a bus
    moving slowly in flowing traffic But it was a wake up call, to be
    ever-vigilant.


    --
    Cheers
    Peter

    ~~~ ~ _@
    ~~ ~ _- \,
    ~~ (*)/ (*)
     
    Tags:


  2. Duncan

    Duncan Guest

    On Feb 11, 5:48 pm, "PeteSig" <pete...@bigpond.com> wrote:

    > Rest of the ride was much more peaceful. Even got a nice draft off a bus
    > moving slowly in flowing traffic But it was a wake up call, to be
    > ever-vigilant.


    Glad to hear you survived intact.

    As far as ever vigilance goes, one must never forget!

    I had one the other day.. waiting at the lights for through traffic
    so I can turn right.. get a green arrow, but notice that BMW
    convertible coming in other direction doesn't appear to be slowing...
    some seconds (!) after my green, she sails through her red light -
    with a trail of my expletives ringing in her ear.

    I honestly don't think idiots like this even realise their mistakes
    half the time.
     
  3. PeteSig

    PeteSig Guest

    "Duncan" wrote:
    >
    > I had one the other day.. waiting at the lights for through traffic
    > so I can turn right.. get a green arrow, but notice that BMW
    > convertible coming in other direction doesn't appear to be slowing...
    > some seconds (!) after my green, she sails through her red light -
    > with a trail of my expletives ringing in her ear.
    >
    > I honestly don't think idiots like this even realise their mistakes
    > half the time.


    Well yes, of course not!

    BMW = Bicyclist Make Way

    --
    Cheers
    Peter

    ~~~ ~ _@
    ~~ ~ _- \,
    ~~ (*)/ (*)
     
  4. ray

    ray Guest

    PeteSig wrote:
    > "Duncan" wrote:
    >> I had one the other day.. waiting at the lights for through traffic
    >> so I can turn right.. get a green arrow, but notice that BMW
    >> convertible coming in other direction doesn't appear to be slowing...
    >> some seconds (!) after my green, she sails through her red light -
    >> with a trail of my expletives ringing in her ear.
    >>
    >> I honestly don't think idiots like this even realise their mistakes
    >> half the time.

    >
    > Well yes, of course not!
    >
    > BMW = Bicyclist Make Way
    >

    I sympathize Mr Sig, I've often wondered what device in a car seems to
    dis-engage 90 % of the driver's brain when they turn the key. I f--- up
    when I'm driving occasionally, but I never commit faux pas of the
    magnitude I see on the roads whether on two or four wheels.
    Cheers,
    Ray
     
  5. In aus.bicycle on Tue, 12 Feb 2008 07:13:01 +1100
    ray <ferret57@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
    > I sympathize Mr Sig, I've often wondered what device in a car seems to
    > dis-engage 90 % of the driver's brain when they turn the key. I f--- up


    I believe it is because for the majority of people driving is an
    unavoidable boring chore. It's to get from where they are to where
    they want to be, it's an unavoidable waste of time and they don't want
    to think about it really.

    There's also the active vs passive safety thing. If you are on two
    wheels, powered or unpowered, you realise there's not much passive
    safety to be had. You have to actively engage, have to be involved
    in what you are doing.

    In a car you are surrounded by passive safety. The metal cage, the
    seatbelt, the airbags. The advertising you have seen every day for
    years about how insurance is good because a crash in a car is all
    about bent metalwork, never about bent people.

    The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
    The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
    active safety.

    Plus there is the rarity problem. Crashes are *rare*. Most people
    will be able to drone along operating the controls of their motor
    vehicle without crashing. Most crashes require 2 people to make a
    mistake at the same time, given the hours/km travelled and the number
    of cars on the road crashes are quite rare. So people can develop bad
    habits, make mistakes all the time, unless someone else makes a
    suitable mistake at the same time then nothing bad happens.

    So for the average driver there's no *reason* to turn the brain on.

    Zebee
     
  6. BT Humble

    BT Humble Guest

    Yep, they'll do that.


    BTH
     
  7. Aeek

    Aeek Guest

    On 11 Feb 2008 21:06:18 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote:

    >The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
    >The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
    >active safety.


    I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
    cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
    entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
    habits, bad habits.
     
  8. In aus.bicycle on Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:14:34 +1100
    Aeek <aeeeeeek@tpg.com.au> wrote:
    > On 11 Feb 2008 21:06:18 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
    >>The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
    >>active safety.

    >
    > I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
    > cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
    > entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
    > habits, bad habits.


    Makes sense. You do what works. And if there isn't much threat then
    you don't need to learn how to deal with threats.

    Most people seem to function on the idea that what happened a few
    seconds ago is what will happen a few seconds in the future. Which
    makes sense, it is usually the case.

    I find when riding on a cycle path that I have to consciously check
    the mirror regularly because *sometimes* there is a bicycle
    overtaking.

    Happens maybe once every 15-20 trips. SO there's a lot of experience
    saying "it won't happen". And only sheer stubborness saying "so check
    the damn mirror anyway".

    I still forget. Drifted into the middle of the path today, not
    deliberately, and heard a call from behind me so moved back. I hadn't
    realised I'd drifted, hadn't checked in ages. Had I not heard the
    call, had the other rider not called, had I mistook what was going on,
    then there could have been a problem.

    Zebee
     
  9. BT Humble

    BT Humble Guest

    On Feb 13, 9:14 pm, Aeek <aeeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
    > On 11 Feb 2008 21:06:18 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > >The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
    > >The average four wheeler never develops those  habits, never gets into
    > >active safety.

    >
    > I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
    > cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
    > entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
    > habits, bad habits.


    Yep. Like the 3 schoolkids (all in separate incidents) this morning
    who, without exception, moved to the *right* when I called out
    "passing".


    BTH
     
  10. Donga

    Donga Guest

    On Feb 13, 6:52 pm, BT Humble <bt_hum...@bigpond.com> wrote:
    > Yep, they'll do that.
    >
    > BTH


    Damn Labradors are worse - no feeling for left and right.
     
  11. On Feb 11, 5:48 pm, "PeteSig" <pete...@bigpond.com> wrote:
    > Riding into work today was feeling pretty good. The eighth day in a row of
    > cycling, headed out with plenty of speed, negotiating the first few traffic
    > bottlenecks smoothly.
    >
    > Then approaching the Whitehorse Rd crossing, moving well, clear of traffic
    > with the green light, just one car waiting to turn right. Then...
    >
    > WTF! Whoah! The car is heading straight at me! Visions of me and my bike
    > crashing across the bonnet. I hit the brakes hard, and the bike skids and
    > spins. Unfortunate that it was to the left, into the line of the car's
    > direction! We come to a halt with my bike in front of the car - back wheel
    > just a centimetre or two from his bumper
    >
    > Probably not a good move, but involuntarily I let fly with a stream of abuse
    > "What the f*%$!! Where did you get your licence? Out of a f*(%ing weeties
    > packet!" I walked clear, across the intersection, just a tad shaken. Nothing
    > from the driver, no wave, no aggro (good I guess) no sorry. Typical!
    >
    > So to the inscrutable oriental gentleman, in the red/brown 1980s Mitsubishi
    > Magna - you are an insult! You need to wake up and develop some driving
    > competencies
    >
    > Rest of the ride was much more peaceful. Even got a nice draft off a bus
    > moving slowly in flowing traffic But it was a wake up call, to be
    > ever-vigilant.
    >
    > --
    > Cheers
    > Peter
    >

    Ha! I can go one better than that! :) This morning, I was being
    overtaken by a beat-up courier truck (rainy weather) who was being
    overtaken by a snappy little Alfa, then Alfa driver realised there was
    a stopped truck in the filter lane ahead going right, so ducked a bit
    too hard in front of the courier, who rear ended him in the off-side
    quarter panel, pushing him along the road about 10 metres in front of
    me at approx. 40 km/h. There was a B-Double right behind me leaning
    hard on his air brakes. I thought I was going to die. Shiny suit real
    estate agent type Alfa driver got out and started to go the poor
    African courier dude, then tried to push him around. I had to play
    traffic cop in an attempt to stop shiny suit decking courier dude, who
    was really shaken up. I wasn't so stable with the adrenaline going,
    either. Finally, using my best Year 10 in the playgound dust-up
    control technique, I got them to talk to each other rationally. Then
    rode the remaining 500 metres to work and scraped the brown stains off
    my knicks. I'm still a bit jumpy typing this now.
     
  12. BT Humble wrote:
    > On Feb 13, 9:14 pm, Aeek <aeeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
    >> On 11 Feb 2008 21:06:18 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> The two wheeler develops habits that move across into 4 wheels.
    >>> The average four wheeler never develops those habits, never gets into
    >>> active safety.

    >> I presume thats true of motos. Its definitely NOT true for some
    >> cyclists, especially somewhere like Canberra where you can ride almost
    >> entirely on shared paths and footpaths(legally). Well, they do develop
    >> habits, bad habits.

    >
    > Yep. Like the 3 schoolkids (all in separate incidents) this morning
    > who, without exception, moved to the *right* when I called out
    > "passing".



    It's pedestrians in general - and I don't know why. Whether it's on the
    footpath or in a shopping centre, it seems to me that MOST people will
    move to their right when approaching a passing situation.
     
  13. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    ... which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my responsibility to miss them. Can't stay silent all the time though, I have to say something if the whole path is blocked by a group walking along like brown's cows.

    Ritch
     
  14. Aeek

    Aeek Guest

    On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:09:25 +1100, ritcho
    <ritcho.34thiz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

    >.. which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing
    >people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my
    >responsibility to miss them.


    I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
    Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.
     
  15. In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100
    Aeek <aeeeeeek@tpg.com.au> wrote:
    > On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:09:25 +1100, ritcho
    ><ritcho.34thiz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    >
    >>.. which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing
    >>people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my
    >>responsibility to miss them.

    >
    > I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
    > Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.


    I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
    them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
    connection.

    I ring reasonably early and watch for which way they move. Had 2 the
    other day who went one to each side, so I slowed right down to ride
    between them. Mostly they'll move one side or the other. If they are
    already off to one side, I'll go as far as I can to the other side.

    Zebee
     
  16. beerwolf

    beerwolf Guest

    Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in
    news:slrnfrath7.26g.zebeej@gmail.com:

    > In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100
    > Aeek <aeeeeeek@tpg.com.au> wrote:
    >> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:09:25 +1100, ritcho
    >><ritcho.34thiz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>.. which is why I prefer to slow, but remain silent when passing
    >>>people on shared paths. If they're in front of me, it's my
    >>>responsibility to miss them.

    >>
    >> I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
    >> Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

    >
    > I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
    > them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
    > connection.
    >
    > I ring reasonably early and watch for which way they move. Had 2 the
    > other day who went one to each side, so I slowed right down to ride
    > between them. Mostly they'll move one side or the other. If they are
    > already off to one side, I'll go as far as I can to the other side.


    I do any or all of the things mentioned so far, depending on time of
    day, location and my assessment of the peds' activities and body
    language as I approach. Bell and voice are useless if the ped is wearing
    earphones, but the very worst ones are those who are having an argument
    with somebody on the other end of a mobile. They can jump all over the
    place without regard for anything coming up behind.

    I note that signs have recently gone up on Pyrmont Bridge, restricting
    the south side to pedestrians only. That is a good idea. Now if only
    they would paint a nice big green strip down the other side, with little
    white bicycles painted at frequent intervals.

    --
    beerwolf
     
  17. Aeek

    Aeek Guest

    On 15 Feb 2008 11:23:19 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote:

    >In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100
    >Aeek <aeeeeeek@tpg.com.au> wrote:


    >>
    >> I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
    >> Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

    >
    >I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
    >them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
    >connection.


    My voice is too late to affect them, just being "friendly".
    I bell sometimes, and sometimes I have a bell.
     
  18. Aeek wrote:
    > On 15 Feb 2008 11:23:19 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >> In aus.bicycle on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:26:59 +1100
    >> Aeek <aeeeeeek@tpg.com.au> wrote:

    >
    >>> I say "Good Morning!" as I do that (in the morning).
    >>> Defuses any agro about not ringing my bell.

    >> I gave up on voice because so few people thought it was directed at
    >> them. Whereas most peds on a path can make the bell-bicycle-move
    >> connection.

    >
    > My voice is too late to affect them, just being "friendly".
    > I bell sometimes, and sometimes I have a bell.

    My experience is mostly based on Canberra's mixed use recreation paths -
    note that they are not cycle paths despite the white line down the middle.

    My voice is big enough to be effective, and seems to produce a more
    predictable outcome than any bell, buzzer or horn. I call "bike behind"
    in a sonorous voice and they mostly do the right thing.

    Most predictable - single joggers.
    Least preductable - groups of four talking and strolling.
    Most dangerous - two people with three dogs.
     
  19. beerwolf wrote:
    > Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in
    >
    >> I ring reasonably early and watch for which way they move. Had 2 the
    >> other day who went one to each side, so I slowed right down to ride
    >> between them. Mostly they'll move one side or the other. If they are
    >> already off to one side, I'll go as far as I can to the other side.

    >
    > I do any or all of the things mentioned so far, depending on time of
    > day, location and my assessment of the peds' activities and body
    > language as I approach. Bell and voice are useless if the ped is wearing
    > earphones, but the very worst ones are those who are having an argument
    > with somebody on the other end of a mobile. They can jump all over the
    > place without regard for anything coming up behind.


    The best (worse?) I've come across was the bloke who, as I approached
    from the rear with a "excuse me, coming through on the right", told his
    girlfriend who was walking side-by-side with him to "stay where you are
    - don't get off the path".

    Which is one reason why I really do prefer mixing it with traffic on the
    road, rather than shared lanes.
     
  20. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    Peter Cremasco wrote:
    > The best (worse?) I've come across was the bloke who, as I approached
    > from the rear with a "excuse me, coming through on the right", told his
    > girlfriend who was walking side-by-side with him to "stay where you are
    > - don't get off the path".
    >
    > Which is one reason why I really do prefer mixing it with traffic on the
    > road, rather than shared lanes.


    LOL, reminds of the time I was trying to get my motorbike up onto the
    footpath in the CBD at the lights. A group of young stockbroker types (I
    worked just up from the Exchange) were kind of in my way when one of
    them deliberately moved in front of me (with a smirk to his mates) so I
    couldn't get up onto the footpath. He soon found out that wet tyres and
    dirty roads combine to make a big mark on a nice clean suit when he was
    nudged out of the way. :)

    DaveB
     
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