I'm doomed! Something I ate...



On Mon, 8 May 2006 23:43:52 -0600, D.Currie wrote:

> "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> D.Currie wrote:
>>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain person's
>>> house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's causing this
>>> intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but isn't as miserable
>>> as me. Same as last time.
>>
>>
>> My guess is the oil. People buy a big bottle of oil and continue using it
>> after it has gone rancid. But that doesn't explain why your hosts don't
>> get sick too. Perhaps they're using some sort of fake oil that's supposed
>> to be good for people on diets. Some people are sensitive to it while
>> others aren't. That could explain why you get it worst, your husband a
>> little, and your hosts not at all.
>>
>
> Rancid oil is nasty for sure. But unless it was in the green beans, I can't
> think of anywhere she would have used oil. Maybe butter gone bad, though. Or
> margarine. I put some of her margarine concoction on my bread.
>
> I know they got sick twice during lent when they had fish, but I don't know
> if there's any connection there. And it was something like fish sticks,
> baked.

Have you been in the house and not eaten (and not gotten sick)?
Maybe it's the house itself (or the people themselves that you
just don't care for ;-)

-sw
 
zxcvbob <[email protected]> writes:


> Why? They obviously did *not* get botulism. The symptoms are all wrong.

Yes, but salmonella is also a possibility.

nb
 
On Mon, 8 May 2006 23:38:07 -0600, "D.Currie"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Jude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I hate to ask....but are they clean people? Are they good about washing
>> produce, and washing their hands thoroughly? All that good stuff?
>>
>
>The house is clean. Cleaner than mine, most days. As far as washing things,
>I don't know for sure. She like to have almost everything plated well ahead
>of guests' arrivals, and then she just microwaves what needs to be hot.

Yuck. She's not a foodie, huh.
Hope you recover soon. And if I were you, I'd ask about the beans.

Nathalie in Switzerland
 
"D.Currie" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
> person's house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's
> causing this intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but
> isn't as miserable as me. Same as last time.


Donna,

Doesn't matter who a certain person is, sister, Mom, the boss' wife.
Where your health is concerned, it's absurd to claim you can't opt-out of
eating there.

Plated dinners in advance of your arrival??? Who does that??? Sounds
disgusting. That's not cooking, that's TV-Dinnering. Could be sitting on
the kitchen counter all day for all you know.

ICK!

Feel better fast!

Andy
 
D.Currie wrote:

> The house is clean. Cleaner than mine, most days. As far as washing things,
> I don't know for sure. She like to have almost everything plated well ahead
> of guests' arrivals, and then she just microwaves what needs to be hot.


There do exist people who keep spotlessly clean homes and spotlessly
clean kitchens who just don't think it is important to wash their hands
after using the bathroom. Sometimes it is someone who used to wash
their hands but now has arthritis in their fingers such that it makes
holding soap or scrubbing fingernails difficult and painful.


The mystery here is what could be causing one person to get sick and not
others. Cleanliness issues would get to everyone. That's why I keep
going back to an artificial ingredient, maybe a sugar substitute. I'm
recalling a time when I was in elementary school. Dad came home with
some sort of lo-cal candy. We all ate it. Dad, my brother and I got
sick to our stomachs. Mom was fine.


But really, the etiquette question is the more interesting one. I doubt
that someone who likes you well enough to invite you over often wants
you to get sick. Could you explain the problem in neutral terms, say
that you're sensitive to an ingredient and ask about what it might be?
You wouldn't have to implicate your host's cooking or cleanliness, just
ask about recipes and procedures to try to spot the culprit.


--Lia
 
D.Currie wrote:
> "Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> D.Currie wrote:
>>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
>>> person's house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's
>>> causing this intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but
>>> isn't as miserable as
>>> me. Same as last time.
>>>
>> Improperly home canned green beans can harbor botulism. That can kill
>> you, your husband and your hosts. I would not eat there again. At the
>> very least, ask them to get rid of all of their home canned green
>> beans.
>>
>> Rusty
>>
>
> I'll find out, for sure. I'd like to blame it on something specific
> that I can avoid in the future rather than being afraid of eating
> there every time. And there's no way to avoid eating going over there.
>
>Donna

You keep saying there is no way to avoid eating at their home. May I ask
why?

Jill
 
Steve Wertz wrote:
> On Mon, 8 May 2006 19:47:36 -0600, D.Currie wrote:
>
> > The ham there usually isn't cooked. It's sliced from the bone and
> > microwaved. Never sees the oven at all.
>
> Oh. My. God.
>
> Not that it's very dangerous - I eat raw (ready to cook) ham all
> the time, but this is hardly a way to cook for guests.
>
> -sw

Most hams sold today (unless you ask for something different) are fully
cooked and/or fully cured. There is nothing wrong with eating it as
is. Raw ham is just raw pork.

The hams you buy, even with the leg bone in, just need to be heated to
be ready - they've already been cooked.

I would think it was the beans or the ham - it could be that the ham
had been heated before or had not been handled properly (gotten too
un-chilled and bacteria grew).

N.
 
"Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> D.Currie wrote:
>
>> The house is clean. Cleaner than mine, most days. As far as washing
>> things, I don't know for sure. She like to have almost everything plated
>> well ahead of guests' arrivals, and then she just microwaves what needs
>> to be hot.
>
>
> There do exist people who keep spotlessly clean homes and spotlessly clean
> kitchens who just don't think it is important to wash their hands after
> using the bathroom. Sometimes it is someone who used to wash their hands
> but now has arthritis in their fingers such that it makes holding soap or
> scrubbing fingernails difficult and painful.

I'm hoping it's not an overall cleanliness issue, because that would mean
anything we eat there is suspect.

>
>
> The mystery here is what could be causing one person to get sick and not
> others. Cleanliness issues would get to everyone. That's why I keep
> going back to an artificial ingredient, maybe a sugar substitute. I'm
> recalling a time when I was in elementary school. Dad came home with some
> sort of lo-cal candy. We all ate it. Dad, my brother and I got sick to
> our stomachs. Mom was fine.

She tends not to use a whole lot of ingredients, and they tend to repeat
endlessly. She uses no spices except some store-brand mix that I've seen her
sprinkle in such small quanities as to be insignificant. No lo-cal anything,
no fake fats, unless you count her mystery margarine, which is her own
concoction of margarine (I think) and something sweet like corn syrup.

I think it might be more of a storage issue, where something was kept beyond
its prime. She doesn't like to throw anything away. Coffee for example. They
don't brew coffee for themselves, they use instant. When they have company
(not us, we're not company, we're related) she brews coffee. She then takes
whatever is left over, stores it in a jar in the fridge, and then mixes it
with hot water and serves that as coffee later.

I don't know if she cleans out the margarine container when she mixes a new
batch, and there are probably other things that get recycled.

> But really, the etiquette question is the more interesting one. I doubt
> that someone who likes you well enough to invite you over often wants you
> to get sick. Could you explain the problem in neutral terms, say that
> you're sensitive to an ingredient and ask about what it might be? You
> wouldn't have to implicate your host's cooking or cleanliness, just ask
> about recipes and procedures to try to spot the culprit.
>

I'll let DH handle the interrogation. The whole "ingredient" thing is
unlikely, though, because she doesn't really use a lot of stuff. My bet is
either that it was the beans (or whatever brown bits she cooked with them --
old bacon?) or maybe something she added to the mashed potatoes. I saw a
package of cream cheese on the counter, and that probably went into the
potatoes. Maybe the cheese was bad.

I'm feeling better today, but still not 100 percent.

Thanks everyone...

Donna
 
"Nathalie Chiva" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 8 May 2006 23:38:07 -0600, "D.Currie"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jude" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>>I hate to ask....but are they clean people? Are they good about washing
>>> produce, and washing their hands thoroughly? All that good stuff?
>>>
>>
>>The house is clean. Cleaner than mine, most days. As far as washing
>>things,
>>I don't know for sure. She like to have almost everything plated well
>>ahead
>>of guests' arrivals, and then she just microwaves what needs to be hot.
>
> Yuck. She's not a foodie, huh.

That may be the understatement of the year. For dessert, she usually makes
this cake concoction that to me always seems the same, but she calls them
different things. Fruit cocktail cake, apple cake, pineapple cake...I always
decline, because it's really not that good. And it's easy to say, "No
dessert, I'm full."

One time, I was in the kitchen, ready to bring the desserts to the table.
She's dishing out large hunks of the latest cake creation and she tells me
that it's a new recipe that someone gave her, and she already tried a little
bit of it earlier, and it's not very good. It's pretty bad, actually. And
she's saying this while she's dishing it out to serve.

I was amazed. If I made something that I thought wasn't good, I'd be feeding
it to the birds, the dogs, or the garbage can, depending on what it was. I
certainly wouldn't be handing out huge hunks of it to unwary guests. But
that's how she is. It doesn't have to taste good, it just has to be edible.

> Hope you recover soon. And if I were you, I'd ask about the beans.
>
> Nathalie in Switzerland
>

I'm better today. Not completely well, but better. The beans and I are going
to stay far away from each other. Honestly, just the thought of her green
beans makes me a little green. I don't think I'll be eating them at her
house, no matter what the source.
 
"Steve Wertz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> On Mon, 8 May 2006 23:43:52 -0600, D.Currie wrote:
>
>> "Julia Altshuler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> D.Currie wrote:
>>>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
>>>> person's
>>>> house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's causing this
>>>> intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but isn't as
>>>> miserable
>>>> as me. Same as last time.
>>>
>>>
>>> My guess is the oil. People buy a big bottle of oil and continue using
>>> it
>>> after it has gone rancid. But that doesn't explain why your hosts don't
>>> get sick too. Perhaps they're using some sort of fake oil that's
>>> supposed
>>> to be good for people on diets. Some people are sensitive to it while
>>> others aren't. That could explain why you get it worst, your husband a
>>> little, and your hosts not at all.
>>>
>>
>> Rancid oil is nasty for sure. But unless it was in the green beans, I
>> can't
>> think of anywhere she would have used oil. Maybe butter gone bad, though.
>> Or
>> margarine. I put some of her margarine concoction on my bread.
>>
>> I know they got sick twice during lent when they had fish, but I don't
>> know
>> if there's any connection there. And it was something like fish sticks,
>> baked.
>
> Have you been in the house and not eaten (and not gotten sick)?
> Maybe it's the house itself (or the people themselves that you
> just don't care for ;-)
>
> -sw

I've been there a lot of times and eaten or not, and not gotten sick. The
last two times, though, when we ate there, we were unwell afterwards. We
actually had a fun time. They had another couple over and they were quite
entertaining.

Two times in a row is what worries me. Once, I could say it was an
accidental occurrence. Some bad meat or something. Twice makes me worry
about future meals.

Donna
 
I'm sorry you are ill, Donna. Since this only happens at that particualr
house, it might be a hygiene question, in the kitchen, or the bathroom, too.
One way or another, I hop both you and your husband will feel better soon.
 
"jmcquown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> D.Currie wrote:
>> "Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> D.Currie wrote:
>>>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
>>>> person's house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's
>>>> causing this intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but
>>>> isn't as miserable as
>>>> me. Same as last time.
>>>>
>>> Improperly home canned green beans can harbor botulism. That can kill
>>> you, your husband and your hosts. I would not eat there again. At the
>>> very least, ask them to get rid of all of their home canned green
>>> beans.
>>>
>>> Rusty
>>>
>>
>> I'll find out, for sure. I'd like to blame it on something specific
>> that I can avoid in the future rather than being afraid of eating
>> there every time. And there's no way to avoid eating going over there.
>>
>>Donna
>
> You keep saying there is no way to avoid eating at their home. May I ask
> why?
>
> Jill
>

It's a close relative, and they live less than 6 blocks away. And we're the
only family within 900 miles.

Donna
 
D.Currie wrote:
> "jmcquown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> D.Currie wrote:
>>> "Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> D.Currie wrote:
>>>>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
>>>>> person's house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's
>>>>> causing this intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but
>>>>> isn't as miserable as
>>>>> me. Same as last time.
>>>>>
>>>> Improperly home canned green beans can harbor botulism. That can
>>>> kill you, your husband and your hosts. I would not eat there
>>>> again. At the very least, ask them to get rid of all of their home
>>>> canned green beans.
>>>>
>>>> Rusty
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll find out, for sure. I'd like to blame it on something specific
>>> that I can avoid in the future rather than being afraid of eating
>>> there every time. And there's no way to avoid eating going over
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Donna
>>
>> You keep saying there is no way to avoid eating at their home. May
>> I ask why?
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> It's a close relative, and they live less than 6 blocks away. And
> we're the only family within 900 miles.
>
> Donna

Ah, well I don't have the same qualms that you do. I haven't seen my oldest
brother in close to 3 years. Just because he lives here and is related to
me doesn't mean I have to share meals with him.

And even if it didn't make you ill, it doesn't sound like these relatives
serve you particularly delicious food. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they
enjoy the company and perhaps you do, too. I don't know. Maybe you should
show her a copy of the RFC Cookbook :)

Jill
Jill
 
On 9 May 2006 07:12:03 -0700, Nancy2 wrote:

> Steve Wertz wrote:
>> On Mon, 8 May 2006 19:47:36 -0600, D.Currie wrote:
>>
>>> The ham there usually isn't cooked. It's sliced from the bone and
>>> microwaved. Never sees the oven at all.
>>
>> Oh. My. God.
>>
>> Not that it's very dangerous - I eat raw (ready to cook) ham all
>> the time, but this is hardly a way to cook for guests.
>>
>> -sw
>
> Most hams sold today (unless you ask for something different) are fully
> cooked and/or fully cured. There is nothing wrong with eating it as
> is. Raw ham is just raw pork.
>
> The hams you buy, even with the leg bone in, just need to be heated to
> be ready - they've already been cooked.

Yeah, forgot about those "ready to heat" hams. My supermarket is
2/3rd's "ready to cook" (still raw) hams, and 1/3rd "ready to
heat" hams (already cooked). That's for the bone-in hams.

I forgot that people actually buy those awful pre-cooked hams,
but they're not the majority at Austin supermarkets.

-sw
 
"Andy" <q> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "D.Currie" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
>> person's house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's
>> causing this intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but
>> isn't as miserable as me. Same as last time.
>
>
> Donna,
>
> Doesn't matter who a certain person is, sister, Mom, the boss' wife.
> Where your health is concerned, it's absurd to claim you can't opt-out of
> eating there.

We can opt out for a while, or for specific dates, but there are birthdays,
holidays, etc. that come around with some regularity, and getting out of
eating there ever again becomes something of a challenge.

>
> Plated dinners in advance of your arrival??? Who does that??? Sounds
> disgusting. That's not cooking, that's TV-Dinnering. Could be sitting on
> the kitchen counter all day for all you know.

Maybe I phrased it wrong. Individual plates weren't prepared, but, for
example, the ham was sliced and on a plate and ready to be microwaved to
heat it up for serving.

>
> ICK!

It's not what I would do for company, but it's SOP over there. Until now, we
haven't had ill effects.

>
> Feel better fast!

Thanks.
 
"D.Currie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "jmcquown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> D.Currie wrote:
>>> "Rusty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>> D.Currie wrote:
>>>>> For the second time in a row, I'm ill after eating at a certain
>>>>> person's house. And trying to figure out exactly what it is that's
>>>>> causing this intestinal disaster. DH is also not feeling well, but
>>>>> isn't as miserable as
>>>>> me. Same as last time.
>>>>>
>>>> Improperly home canned green beans can harbor botulism. That can kill
>>>> you, your husband and your hosts. I would not eat there again. At the
>>>> very least, ask them to get rid of all of their home canned green
>>>> beans.
>>>>
>>>> Rusty
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'll find out, for sure. I'd like to blame it on something specific
>>> that I can avoid in the future rather than being afraid of eating
>>> there every time. And there's no way to avoid eating going over there.
>>>
>>>Donna
>>
>> You keep saying there is no way to avoid eating at their home. May I ask
>> why?
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> It's a close relative, and they live less than 6 blocks away. And we're
> the only family within 900 miles.
>
> Donna

Yes, it sounds like you are double-doomed. What a problem. Perhaps you will
be doing all the cooking from now on?
I've not read every sentence of your postings; but want to ask, does the
family know that you've been sick twice after each meal, was it the last two
consecutive meals?
A family discussion might be in order?
Dee Dee
 
On Tue, 9 May 2006 08:57:50 -0500, jmcquown wrote:

> You keep saying there is no way to avoid eating at their home. May I ask
> why?

I can think of ten reasons off the top of my head. Mostly
because they're friends of some sort and it would obviously be
awkward to decline.

Certainly your widdle head can come up with at least a few
plausible reasons to satisfy your curiosity without having to get
nosy, no?

ObFood: Homemade beef and pork meatball sandwiches (on
store-bought bolillos) with homegrown tomato marinara.

-sw and jl
 
"jmcquown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> It's a close relative, and they live less than 6 blocks away. And
>> we're the only family within 900 miles.
>>
>> Donna
>
> Ah, well I don't have the same qualms that you do. I haven't seen my
> oldest
> brother in close to 3 years. Just because he lives here and is related to
> me doesn't mean I have to share meals with him.
>
> And even if it didn't make you ill, it doesn't sound like these relatives
> serve you particularly delicious food. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they
> enjoy the company and perhaps you do, too. I don't know. Maybe you
> should
> show her a copy of the RFC Cookbook :)

This isn't a relative that we dislike. Her cooking skills were never good
and she doesn't care; food just has to be edible, nothing more. Taste is
irrelevant. We've resigned ourselves to the fact that the food there is
never going to be any different, and we go for the company. Some of the
meals are better than others. This is the first time we've had ill effects,
so I'm hoping it was something like the canned beans. She can't possibly
have a lot of those. Maybe I'll see if she has any more of them, and I can
talk her into giving them to me, and I can throw them away.

As far as the cookbook it's mine! MINE! MIIINE!!! bwa ha ha... :)
 
"Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>> It's a close relative, and they live less than 6 blocks away. And we're
>> the only family within 900 miles.
>>
>> Donna
>
> Yes, it sounds like you are double-doomed. What a problem. Perhaps you
> will be doing all the cooking from now on?

Nah. For every time I have them here, they'd feel a need to reciprocate.
We'd end up over there, no matter what.

> I've not read every sentence of your postings; but want to ask, does the
> family know that you've been sick twice after each meal, was it the last
> two consecutive meals?

Two different dinners there. We didn't say anything last time, but this time
somebody's going to have a chat. I think I'll have to suggest that we all go
out for Mother's Day.

> A family discussion might be in order?
> Dee Dee

Yup. Of some sort. At least to find out if she's been using anything weird
or different. It's sort of a difficult topic. She knows she's not a good
cook, but telling her that we've gotten sick is a whole other level of bad
cooking.

Donna
 
D.Currie wrote:
> "jmcquown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> It's a close relative, and they live less than 6 blocks away. And
>>> we're the only family within 900 miles.
>>>
>>> Donna
>>
>> Ah, well I don't have the same qualms that you do. I haven't seen my
>> oldest
>> brother in close to 3 years. Just because he lives here and is
>> related to me doesn't mean I have to share meals with him.
>>
>> Maybe you should show her a copy of the RFC Cookbook :)
>
> This isn't a relative that we dislike. Her cooking skills were never
> good and she doesn't care;

Lots of people are like that.

> company. Some of the meals are better than others. This is the first
> time we've had ill effects

No, it's the second LOL

> As far as the cookbook it's mine! MINE! MIIINE!!! bwa ha ha... :)

I didn't say *give* it to her! LOL Sounds like she wouldn't be interested
in looking at it anyway.

I like the idea of you asking her about the beans. If they were truly
home-canned by someone else, you could just rave about them and ask if she'd
part with the last couple of jars and then, yes, you could toss them! Or
you could hope she doesn't have 12 jars of them and only gives you two. But
that would be two down, 10 to go! ;)

Jill
 
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