BP, I've been tempted in following one of the TR base plans. I have seen quite a few report good results on picking one of their plans to follow.
I've taken the opposite approach this year. If I don't have time to ride, I stretch. Slow, gentle stretches done symmetrically. Psoas and quads first, hamstrings, glutes next, then back to Psoas and quads, rinse and repeat... Each time a little deeper. Then shoulders and upper back, the calf muscles. Sure it's not on the bike training but for now I'm getting as much, if not more, than riding. I get to get out of bed in the morning and not walk like an ape for a few minutes or have a real sore back when I do ride for a couple of hours. I've not had that "oh, **** I'm going to seize up" feeling for at least a few weeks. It's been nice!Felt_Rider said:Thanks swampy It is and has been an interesting experiment both for what might happen out of this structure polarizing between shorter more intense weekday intervals and long low intensity rides on the weekend. Even though I have no events scheduled this is like playing a game of chess to me in the holistic training stress load. More so than even the real results out on the road. I am just experimenting with this concept at the moment. I was happy to get it kicked off last night by just easing into the structure for the next couple weeks. I started last night by lowering the target a few watts and will step up a couple watts per week in each training session. Tonight I have 2 x 20 and will likely start my target at 90% of FTP and incrementally go up each week - hopefully. In the last block what I found was how residual fatigue plays a role during the training week and how to set targets for subsequent nights. Kind of a getting to know me sort of thing. Train enough to cause stress, but not so much that I am over stressed type of balance. I should probably focus on longer intervals at this time of the year with more of a SST type, but I am just too curious to see how this will play out. Nothing impressive here, but this is a screen shot of last night's workout sticking to the programmed workout from TrainerRoad, but dropping the target a few watts for the start of this training block. My legs felt good, but cardio was a little behind. It is usually the other way around so I lost some fitness during the holidays and breathing was more labored. I can tell that those extra few pounds were stressing me a bit more. Glad that watts/kg don't play a role on the indoor trainer Trying to also get all calories sorted out now as well and start losing some weight. I can understand what you are saying about work and the aches with training. I just about feel like at any second my back and hips are going to go into full revolt. This is also why I am not in a rush and will ramp up slowly. I hope you get all the kinks worked out.
Wow! The entire thread? Well done. Glad you found lots of good info. And, you've got great W/kg numbers. You should come climb Mt. Charleston next October. If you reach your goal of >5 W/kg, you will be in contention for the podium. If I'm fit, I'll be there.Originally Posted by Jon89
Over the last couple of weeks i've read this whole thread! There's loads of great information here(Particular thanks to rapdaddyo, Dave and SOT for starting the thread)
Amazing to think that after however many years the same guys are still here trying to improve.
Anyway I'm training at the moment for the santini gran fondo un June which includes the mortirolo and stelvio. Currently I have an FTP 300W(measured using CP method) and I weigh 71Kgs
I'm hoping to get down to 60-65Kgs and 320FTP.
As i'm a student after exams I'm planning on putting 20+ hours in mostly splitting the rides in to 2 2hour rides 5 days a week at L2 with some L3 intervals thrown in and a shorter ride at SST for 1 hour on the other day. I'm curious whether it would be advised to do one longer ride in a day instead of splitting them up and if adding L3/SST intervals in to some of the 2 hour rides is a good idea? I'm planning on decreasing the volume and adding more L4/5 intensity about 2 months out from the ride.
I'm just not sure with this amount of training volume what would be the best way to use it for maximum gains to sustainable power.
thanks for the quick replyOriginally Posted by RapDaddyo
Wow! The entire thread? Well done. Glad you found lots of good info. And, you've got great W/kg numbers. You should come climb Mt. Charleston next October. If you reach your goal of >5 W/kg, you will be in contention for the podium. If I'm fit, I'll be there.
As to your training plan, I don't have any problem with the 2/day approach if you feel sufficiently recovered the next day. When you push your weekly volume up to ~20 hrs, the issue (if there is an issue) will be with cumulative fatigue. I actually do a lot of my training with a fairly high level of cumulative fatigue, but each person is different in terms of how much total training volume they can handle (physically and mentally).
My primary problem with your plan is the relative lack of L4/L5 until you are ~2 months out from the ride. I think you will see better results if you include at least L4 from the outset, even if it means long recovery segments at an L1/L2 intensity between L4 segments. Your average power of a ride with L4/L2 may be about the same as a relatively constant-power L3 ride, but the benefit will be greater.
A training plan has two parts. The first part is deciding how much total volume you want to do in light of your schedule and other commitments. For most of us, we're looking at a maximum number of available hours for riding of 10-15 hours/week. You're fortunate to be able to increase your volume to ~20 hrs/week. The choice of total training volume defines your scarce resource for allocation, hours or TSS. If total training volume is less than about 15 hours/week, then your scarce resource is hours. If training volume is 20+ hours/week, then your scarce resource is TSS.Originally Posted by Jon89
to be clear when I say L3 i'm talking about mostly 2x20 at 85-90% FTP so close to L4. as i've never trained circa 4/5 months at 20+ hour weeks i just want to make sure I don't commit to doing lots of L4 and then burning out.
thanks rapdaddyo, I've just got WKO+ actually and it's very interesting looking at the PMC for the last year and how it corresponds to my form. So when ramping up TSS would you recommend starting at a lower volume and higher intensity and then increasing TSS by adding volume rather than having a high volume at a lower intensity and increasing TSS by adding L4/5 intervalsOriginally Posted by RapDaddyo
A training plan has two parts. The first part is deciding how much total volume you want to do in light of your schedule and other commitments. For most of us, we're looking at a maximum number of available hours for riding of 10-15 hours/week. You're fortunate to be able to increase your volume to ~20 hrs/week. The choice of total training volume defines your scarce resource for allocation, hours or TSS. If total training volume is less than about 15 hours/week, then your scarce resource is hours. If training volume is 20+ hours/week, then your scarce resource is TSS.
Regardless of your scarce resource for planning purposes, you can choose how to allocate the resource. I view this process as defining two pie charts. The first pie chart is the split between high-intensity (L4+) and low-intensity (L1-L3). The second pie chart is the split between components of high-intensity. My training plans typically have high-intensity of between 50%-65%. My second pie chart typically has at least 50% in L4, depending on how far out my next target event is and the demands of my next target event.
But, fundamentally, I recommend using the WKO+ Performance Manager approach to deciding how much training volume your body can handle. If you don't have WKO+, then use weekly TSS. Just gradually ramp up total weekly TSS until you find that your next week's training rides are compromised by cumulative fatigue. That's the key question. Each of us have a different answer to that question. For me, it's about 1500 TSS points per week. That's not a recommendation, just a data point.
The concept behind TSS is that 100 TSS points is 100 TSS points whether it results from 1 hr at 100%FTP or from 1.5 hrs at 80%FTP. But, from an adaptation perspective, the two rides are worlds apart. FWIW, I never go out with the objective of riding entirely at <L4. OTOH, I do all of my early high-intensity efforts at the bottom end of the level, in order to maximize my volume for the level. Does that make sense?Originally Posted by Jon89
thanks rapdaddyo, I've just got WKO+ actually and it's very interesting looking at the PMC for the last year and how it corresponds to my form. So when ramping up TSS would you recommend starting at a lower volume and higher intensity and then increasing TSS by adding volume rather than having a high volume at a lower intensity and increasing TSS by adding L4/5 intervals
yes that makes sense. When training less hours a week it was very simple for me in that I knew that time was the limiter and to spend lots of time in L4. However with comitting to more training hours things are a bit more complicated(or maybe i'm making them more complicated?) in terms of managing Volume/Intensity and getting the desired adaptations.Originally Posted by RapDaddyo
The concept behind TSS is that 100 TSS points is 100 TSS points whether it results from 1 hr at 100%FTP or from 1.5 hrs at 80%FTP. But, from an adaptation perspective, the two rides are worlds apart. FWIW, I never go out with the objective of riding entirely at <L4. OTOH, I do all of my early high-intensity efforts at the bottom end of the level, in order to maximize my volume for the level. Does that make sense?
I've totally missed all of this - if there is a link to the instructions then I'd be very interested, thanks.Originally Posted by Felt_Rider
BP, have you seen some of the recent discussions about being able to use your power meter to control the Kickr? I just about have everything setup to give it a try this evening. This will allow us to eliminate one step in recording the data and faking out the TrainerRoad workouts. I currently have my FTP up by 15 watts inside TrainerRoad due to the difference between the two.
From some other users that have it setup in the last day or two they are using their power meters to control and record the workout by overriding the Kickr's power.
If you have not seen the discussions let me know I will point you to the topic.
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