Kimmage At The Tour

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by B. Lafferty, Jul 2, 2006.

  1. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    The Sunday Times July 02, 2006


    Cycling: Cycle of ambition
    PAUL KIMMAGE

    In 1986 I rode the Tour de France as a wide-eyed 24-year-old. Is
    there anybody like me in this year's peloton?




    ::nobreak::For a long time now I've had this love/hate
    relationship with the Tour de France. I love the event but I hate the people
    who have destroyed it. And every summer a recurring battle rages in my head
    .. . .

    "I'm really looking forward to The Open." "You should go back to
    the Tour." "I went to the Tour last year." "Yeah, you stayed for three days
    and wrote a story about drugs. Why not cover the race from start to finish?"
    "Three weeks?" "Yeah." "That's a lot of drugs stories." "You don't have to
    write exclusively about drugs; you've competed in this race three times. Why
    not write a diary about how it feels to go back?" "Because I'd rather write
    a diary about The Open." "You never played in The Open." "No, but I'm
    working on my handicap." "Think about it." "No."

    But, four weeks ago, a funny thing happened. I had been planning
    this bike ride in the Alps with my brothers and some friends for months. We
    caught a flight to Geneva, hired a mini-bus and drove south to Grenoble
    towards Gap. Grenoble used to be home during my time as a professional racer
    and as we drove through the suburbs and up the Côte de Laffrey, my mind
    started flooding with memories of what seems another life.

    "You know," I announced, "when I rode the Tour I was still with
    the leaders when we came up here in 1987."

    "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the stage was a little
    bit different to the one we're going to ride tomorrow."

    "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the race was 400
    kilometres longer and we had only one rest day."

    "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour we were given just
    five pairs of shorts and five jerseys to get us through the three weeks and
    I had to hand-wash my kit after every second stage."

    It didn't take long before a white flag was raised. "Listen
    mate, no offence," my friend Harry announced. "But I think we'll have to
    restrict you to the number of times you can say 'When I rode the Tour'
    tomorrow."

    "Fair enough," I conceded. "How does a hundred sound?" Next
    morning everybody was buzzing as we pedalled out of Gap on a truly glorious
    day. Three hours later, sweating and exhausted, we crested the summit of the
    Col d'Izoard (2,360m), one of the Tour's most fabled climbs, and it was time
    for a break. Harry was once an amateur international but had never
    experienced anything like the Col d'Izoard.

    "Christ," he said, "that was brutal." And then he put his arm on
    my shoulder: "Listen, you can say 'When I rode the Tour' as much as you like
    from now on. Respect." The rest of the group nodded in approval: "Yeah,
    respect mate."

    I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing anybody
    had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had always been
    dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good.

    Suddenly, I was reminded that there is much more to the Tour
    than the race for the yellow jersey. And, at that moment, I knew I had to
    return................




    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html
     
    Tags:


  2. =====================================
    (A more-telling quote from the article referenced)-
    David, why should we treat anything you say with any credibility?" I asked.
    "Maybe I was wrong," he said.

    The press conference continued. He started lecturing again. "The sport was
    moving in the right direction," he insisted. "What's happened in Spain was
    fantastic," he said. "The organised schematic doping is being eradicated,"
    he said. "We need to get rid of the doctors," he said. And, finally, my
    favourite: "We have a responsibility as professional cyclists to convince
    the young guys coming through that it's possible to win without drugs."

    Nobody challenged him. There wasn't a single writer in the room who asked:
    "How would you know?" Furious, I raised my arm again. "David, you say that
    the Spanish (doping) affair is fantastic for the sport and for the future of
    the young kids coming into it . . . But that's exactly what was said in 1998
    (after the Festina affair). And you were the young kid then . . .

    "Why should we believe anything you say? You have no credibility?" "At the
    moment I have no credibility . . . I've said it . . . You can't believe
    anything I say." "Thanks," I said. I just wanted to clarify that.
    ========================================

    I haven't read anything quite so bitter about a sport in quite some time.
    Particularly bothersome is the manner in which he goes on the attack with
    David Millar... if that exchange actually happened, it appears totally
    classless and unfortunate, putting the poor guy in a corner that he couldn't
    possibly hope to fight out of.

    His total indictment is of *modern* cycling, as if he has some special
    credibility from racing in the mid-80s, when there were no doping issues.

    Ignorance was bliss for him then, yet he feels quite differently about those
    in the sport now.

    The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may enlighten
    those who don't quite understand the world the original poster chooses to
    live in.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com



    "B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    news:1EUpg.1914$PE1.1227@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > The Sunday Times July 02, 2006
    >
    >
    > Cycling: Cycle of ambition
    > PAUL KIMMAGE
    >
    > In 1986 I rode the Tour de France as a wide-eyed 24-year-old.
    > Is there anybody like me in this year's peloton?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ::nobreak::For a long time now I've had this love/hate
    > relationship with the Tour de France. I love the event but I hate the
    > people who have destroyed it. And every summer a recurring battle rages in
    > my head . . .
    >
    > "I'm really looking forward to The Open." "You should go back
    > to the Tour." "I went to the Tour last year." "Yeah, you stayed for three
    > days and wrote a story about drugs. Why not cover the race from start to
    > finish?" "Three weeks?" "Yeah." "That's a lot of drugs stories." "You
    > don't have to write exclusively about drugs; you've competed in this race
    > three times. Why not write a diary about how it feels to go back?"
    > "Because I'd rather write a diary about The Open." "You never played in
    > The Open." "No, but I'm working on my handicap." "Think about it." "No."
    >
    > But, four weeks ago, a funny thing happened. I had been
    > planning this bike ride in the Alps with my brothers and some friends for
    > months. We caught a flight to Geneva, hired a mini-bus and drove south to
    > Grenoble towards Gap. Grenoble used to be home during my time as a
    > professional racer and as we drove through the suburbs and up the Côte de
    > Laffrey, my mind started flooding with memories of what seems another
    > life.
    >
    > "You know," I announced, "when I rode the Tour I was still with
    > the leaders when we came up here in 1987."
    >
    > "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the stage was a
    > little bit different to the one we're going to ride tomorrow."
    >
    > "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the race was 400
    > kilometres longer and we had only one rest day."
    >
    > "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour we were given just
    > five pairs of shorts and five jerseys to get us through the three weeks
    > and I had to hand-wash my kit after every second stage."
    >
    > It didn't take long before a white flag was raised. "Listen
    > mate, no offence," my friend Harry announced. "But I think we'll have to
    > restrict you to the number of times you can say 'When I rode the Tour'
    > tomorrow."
    >
    > "Fair enough," I conceded. "How does a hundred sound?" Next
    > morning everybody was buzzing as we pedalled out of Gap on a truly
    > glorious day. Three hours later, sweating and exhausted, we crested the
    > summit of the Col d'Izoard (2,360m), one of the Tour's most fabled climbs,
    > and it was time for a break. Harry was once an amateur international but
    > had never experienced anything like the Col d'Izoard.
    >
    > "Christ," he said, "that was brutal." And then he put his arm
    > on my shoulder: "Listen, you can say 'When I rode the Tour' as much as you
    > like from now on. Respect." The rest of the group nodded in approval:
    > "Yeah, respect mate."
    >
    > I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    > lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing anybody
    > had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had always been
    > dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good.
    >
    > Suddenly, I was reminded that there is much more to the Tour
    > than the race for the yellow jersey. And, at that moment, I knew I had to
    > return................
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  3. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    news:16Vpg.126192$dW3.2502@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    > =====================================
    > (A more-telling quote from the article referenced)-
    > David, why should we treat anything you say with any credibility?" I
    > asked.
    > "Maybe I was wrong," he said.
    >
    > The press conference continued. He started lecturing again. "The sport was
    > moving in the right direction," he insisted. "What's happened in Spain was
    > fantastic," he said. "The organised schematic doping is being eradicated,"
    > he said. "We need to get rid of the doctors," he said. And, finally, my
    > favourite: "We have a responsibility as professional cyclists to convince
    > the young guys coming through that it's possible to win without drugs."
    >
    > Nobody challenged him. There wasn't a single writer in the room who asked:
    > "How would you know?" Furious, I raised my arm again. "David, you say that
    > the Spanish (doping) affair is fantastic for the sport and for the future
    > of the young kids coming into it . . . But that's exactly what was said in
    > 1998 (after the Festina affair). And you were the young kid then . . .
    >
    > "Why should we believe anything you say? You have no credibility?" "At the
    > moment I have no credibility . . . I've said it . . . You can't believe
    > anything I say." "Thanks," I said. I just wanted to clarify that.
    > ========================================
    >
    > I haven't read anything quite so bitter about a sport in quite some time.
    > Particularly bothersome is the manner in which he goes on the attack with
    > David Millar... if that exchange actually happened, it appears totally
    > classless and unfortunate, putting the poor guy in a corner that he
    > couldn't possibly hope to fight out of.


    Classless? Real journalists have been called that and much worse before.
    The "poor guy" put himself in the press room to answer questions and only
    one reporter present had the guts to point out the white elephant in the
    room.

    >
    > His total indictment is of *modern* cycling, as if he has some special
    > credibility from racing in the mid-80s, when there were no doping issues.


    There were doping issues back then. Kimmage did write a book called "A
    Rough Ride" and he has reported on cycling and drugs on a consistent basis.

    >
    > Ignorance was bliss for him then, yet he feels quite differently about
    > those in the sport now.


    Kimmage was ignorant and niave as a young pro. Reality hit him rather
    quickly as a pro.

    >
    > The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may enlighten
    > those who don't quite understand the world the original poster chooses to
    > live in.


    How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.

    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    > news:1EUpg.1914$PE1.1227@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> The Sunday Times July 02, 2006
    >>
    >>
    >> Cycling: Cycle of ambition
    >> PAUL KIMMAGE
    >>
    >> In 1986 I rode the Tour de France as a wide-eyed 24-year-old.
    >> Is there anybody like me in this year's peloton?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ::nobreak::For a long time now I've had this love/hate
    >> relationship with the Tour de France. I love the event but I hate the
    >> people who have destroyed it. And every summer a recurring battle rages
    >> in my head . . .
    >>
    >> "I'm really looking forward to The Open." "You should go back
    >> to the Tour." "I went to the Tour last year." "Yeah, you stayed for three
    >> days and wrote a story about drugs. Why not cover the race from start to
    >> finish?" "Three weeks?" "Yeah." "That's a lot of drugs stories." "You
    >> don't have to write exclusively about drugs; you've competed in this race
    >> three times. Why not write a diary about how it feels to go back?"
    >> "Because I'd rather write a diary about The Open." "You never played in
    >> The Open." "No, but I'm working on my handicap." "Think about it." "No."
    >>
    >> But, four weeks ago, a funny thing happened. I had been
    >> planning this bike ride in the Alps with my brothers and some friends for
    >> months. We caught a flight to Geneva, hired a mini-bus and drove south to
    >> Grenoble towards Gap. Grenoble used to be home during my time as a
    >> professional racer and as we drove through the suburbs and up the Côte de
    >> Laffrey, my mind started flooding with memories of what seems another
    >> life.
    >>
    >> "You know," I announced, "when I rode the Tour I was still
    >> with the leaders when we came up here in 1987."
    >>
    >> "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the stage was a
    >> little bit different to the one we're going to ride tomorrow."
    >>
    >> "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the race was 400
    >> kilometres longer and we had only one rest day."
    >>
    >> "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour we were given just
    >> five pairs of shorts and five jerseys to get us through the three weeks
    >> and I had to hand-wash my kit after every second stage."
    >>
    >> It didn't take long before a white flag was raised. "Listen
    >> mate, no offence," my friend Harry announced. "But I think we'll have to
    >> restrict you to the number of times you can say 'When I rode the Tour'
    >> tomorrow."
    >>
    >> "Fair enough," I conceded. "How does a hundred sound?" Next
    >> morning everybody was buzzing as we pedalled out of Gap on a truly
    >> glorious day. Three hours later, sweating and exhausted, we crested the
    >> summit of the Col d'Izoard (2,360m), one of the Tour's most fabled
    >> climbs, and it was time for a break. Harry was once an amateur
    >> international but had never experienced anything like the Col d'Izoard.
    >>
    >> "Christ," he said, "that was brutal." And then he put his arm
    >> on my shoulder: "Listen, you can say 'When I rode the Tour' as much as
    >> you like from now on. Respect." The rest of the group nodded in approval:
    >> "Yeah, respect mate."
    >>
    >> I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    >> lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing
    >> anybody had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had
    >> always been dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good.
    >>
    >> Suddenly, I was reminded that there is much more to the Tour
    >> than the race for the yellow jersey. And, at that moment, I knew I had to
    >> return................
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
  4. >> The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may enlighten
    >> those who don't quite understand the world the original poster chooses to
    >> live in.

    >
    > How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.


    William Ockham's way of looking at the world isn't a bad place to start
    one's quest for answers.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


    "B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    news:2gWpg.1968$PE1.363@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    > news:16Vpg.126192$dW3.2502@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >> =====================================
    >> (A more-telling quote from the article referenced)-
    >> David, why should we treat anything you say with any credibility?" I
    >> asked.
    >> "Maybe I was wrong," he said.
    >>
    >> The press conference continued. He started lecturing again. "The sport
    >> was moving in the right direction," he insisted. "What's happened in
    >> Spain was fantastic," he said. "The organised schematic doping is being
    >> eradicated," he said. "We need to get rid of the doctors," he said. And,
    >> finally, my favourite: "We have a responsibility as professional cyclists
    >> to convince the young guys coming through that it's possible to win
    >> without drugs."
    >>
    >> Nobody challenged him. There wasn't a single writer in the room who
    >> asked: "How would you know?" Furious, I raised my arm again. "David, you
    >> say that the Spanish (doping) affair is fantastic for the sport and for
    >> the future of the young kids coming into it . . . But that's exactly what
    >> was said in 1998 (after the Festina affair). And you were the young kid
    >> then . . .
    >>
    >> "Why should we believe anything you say? You have no credibility?" "At
    >> the moment I have no credibility . . . I've said it . . . You can't
    >> believe anything I say." "Thanks," I said. I just wanted to clarify that.
    >> ========================================
    >>
    >> I haven't read anything quite so bitter about a sport in quite some time.
    >> Particularly bothersome is the manner in which he goes on the attack with
    >> David Millar... if that exchange actually happened, it appears totally
    >> classless and unfortunate, putting the poor guy in a corner that he
    >> couldn't possibly hope to fight out of.

    >
    > Classless? Real journalists have been called that and much worse before.
    > The "poor guy" put himself in the press room to answer questions and only
    > one reporter present had the guts to point out the white elephant in the
    > room.
    >
    >>
    >> His total indictment is of *modern* cycling, as if he has some special
    >> credibility from racing in the mid-80s, when there were no doping issues.

    >
    > There were doping issues back then. Kimmage did write a book called "A
    > Rough Ride" and he has reported on cycling and drugs on a consistent
    > basis.
    >
    >>
    >> Ignorance was bliss for him then, yet he feels quite differently about
    >> those in the sport now.

    >
    > Kimmage was ignorant and niave as a young pro. Reality hit him rather
    > quickly as a pro.
    >
    >>
    >> The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may enlighten
    >> those who don't quite understand the world the original poster chooses to
    >> live in.

    >
    > How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.
    >
    >>
    >> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    >> news:1EUpg.1914$PE1.1227@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>> The Sunday Times July 02, 2006
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Cycling: Cycle of ambition
    >>> PAUL KIMMAGE
    >>>
    >>> In 1986 I rode the Tour de France as a wide-eyed 24-year-old.
    >>> Is there anybody like me in this year's peloton?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ::nobreak::For a long time now I've had this love/hate
    >>> relationship with the Tour de France. I love the event but I hate the
    >>> people who have destroyed it. And every summer a recurring battle rages
    >>> in my head . . .
    >>>
    >>> "I'm really looking forward to The Open." "You should go back
    >>> to the Tour." "I went to the Tour last year." "Yeah, you stayed for
    >>> three days and wrote a story about drugs. Why not cover the race from
    >>> start to finish?" "Three weeks?" "Yeah." "That's a lot of drugs
    >>> stories." "You don't have to write exclusively about drugs; you've
    >>> competed in this race three times. Why not write a diary about how it
    >>> feels to go back?" "Because I'd rather write a diary about The Open."
    >>> "You never played in The Open." "No, but I'm working on my handicap."
    >>> "Think about it." "No."
    >>>
    >>> But, four weeks ago, a funny thing happened. I had been
    >>> planning this bike ride in the Alps with my brothers and some friends
    >>> for months. We caught a flight to Geneva, hired a mini-bus and drove
    >>> south to Grenoble towards Gap. Grenoble used to be home during my time
    >>> as a professional racer and as we drove through the suburbs and up the
    >>> Côte de Laffrey, my mind started flooding with memories of what seems
    >>> another life.
    >>>
    >>> "You know," I announced, "when I rode the Tour I was still
    >>> with the leaders when we came up here in 1987."
    >>>
    >>> "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the stage was a
    >>> little bit different to the one we're going to ride tomorrow."
    >>>
    >>> "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the race was 400
    >>> kilometres longer and we had only one rest day."
    >>>
    >>> "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour we were given just
    >>> five pairs of shorts and five jerseys to get us through the three weeks
    >>> and I had to hand-wash my kit after every second stage."
    >>>
    >>> It didn't take long before a white flag was raised. "Listen
    >>> mate, no offence," my friend Harry announced. "But I think we'll have to
    >>> restrict you to the number of times you can say 'When I rode the Tour'
    >>> tomorrow."
    >>>
    >>> "Fair enough," I conceded. "How does a hundred sound?" Next
    >>> morning everybody was buzzing as we pedalled out of Gap on a truly
    >>> glorious day. Three hours later, sweating and exhausted, we crested the
    >>> summit of the Col d'Izoard (2,360m), one of the Tour's most fabled
    >>> climbs, and it was time for a break. Harry was once an amateur
    >>> international but had never experienced anything like the Col d'Izoard.
    >>>
    >>> "Christ," he said, "that was brutal." And then he put his arm
    >>> on my shoulder: "Listen, you can say 'When I rode the Tour' as much as
    >>> you like from now on. Respect." The rest of the group nodded in
    >>> approval: "Yeah, respect mate."
    >>>
    >>> I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    >>> lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing
    >>> anybody had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had
    >>> always been dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good.
    >>>
    >>> Suddenly, I was reminded that there is much more to the Tour
    >>> than the race for the yellow jersey. And, at that moment, I knew I had
    >>> to return................
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
  5. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    news:crXpg.114364$H71.75332@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>> The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may
    >>> enlighten those who don't quite understand the world the original poster
    >>> chooses to live in.

    >>
    >> How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.

    >
    > William Ockham's way of looking at the world isn't a bad place to start
    > one's quest for answers.


    William would probably piss in his pants from laughter if he saw your post.

    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  6. B. Lafferty wrote:
    : by PAUL KIMMAGE
    : Grenoble used to be home during my time as a professional
    racer
    : and as we drove through the suburbs and up the Côte de Lafferty, my
    mind
    : started flooding with memories of what seems another life.

    Hmm, this explains a lot.

    > I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    > lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing anybody
    > had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had always been
    > dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good. ...
    > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html


    Probably few people ever despised Paul Kimmage as much
    as he thinks. This series is rather a lot about Paul Kimmage
    as much as today's Tour - even his quest is for a Tour rider
    who reminds him of ... Paul Kimmage.

    Hacking David Millar off is no great feat of truth-telling, especially
    since Millar was hardly verbally agile even before he was busted
    and disgusted. If Kimmage stops worrying about hacks in the
    pressroom and what people think of Paul Kimmage, he could
    bring an interesting perspective; I hope this series winds up
    being of interest to the readers as well as to Paul Kimmage's
    therapist.
     
  7. >> The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may enlighten
    >> those who don't quite understand the world the original poster chooses to
    >> live in.

    >
    > How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.


    Actually, that does deserve a better answer than my original reply. In all
    seriousness, your views and the authors', and the way they're expressed, are
    amazingly similar. In the case of the author (Paul Kimmage), we have the
    benefit of understanding, to some extent, how his views came to be. We learn
    about his background and experiences, and from that get a better idea for
    why he would question (a very kind way to put it) David Millar in the manner
    he did.

    Somewhere between Mr. Kimmel's challenges and those who would pretend that
    none of this matters is a middle ground that is not all that bad a place to
    be. But it's not nearly as fun a place to be because there are shades of
    gray, with the possibility that things might not be quite what they appear,
    so you can't feel so comfortable climbing upon soap boxes, telling the world
    that you are right and they are wrong.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  8. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    news:ZEXpg.114376$H71.82890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>> The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may
    >>> enlighten those who don't quite understand the world the original poster
    >>> chooses to live in.

    >>
    >> How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.

    >
    > Actually, that does deserve a better answer than my original reply. In all
    > seriousness, your views and the authors', and the way they're expressed,
    > are amazingly similar. In the case of the author (Paul Kimmage), we have
    > the benefit of understanding, to some extent, how his views came to be. We
    > learn about his background and experiences, and from that get a better
    > idea for why he would question (a very kind way to put it) David Millar in
    > the manner he did.
    >
    > Somewhere between Mr. Kimmel's challenges and those who would pretend that
    > none of this matters is a middle ground that is not all that bad a place
    > to be. But it's not nearly as fun a place to be because there are shades
    > of gray, with the possibility that things might not be quite what they
    > appear, so you can't feel so comfortable climbing upon soap boxes, telling
    > the world that you are right and they are wrong.


    And you know, I've been right about the doping as a major problem despite
    omerta and heads in the sand. Thanks!
     
  9. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    <bjw@mambo.ucolick.org> wrote in message
    news:1151878840.647562.154930@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
    B. Lafferty wrote:
    : by PAUL KIMMAGE
    : Grenoble used to be home during my time as a professional
    racer
    : and as we drove through the suburbs and up the Côte de Lafferty, my
    mind
    : started flooding with memories of what seems another life.

    Hmm, this explains a lot.

    > I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    > lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing anybody
    > had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had always been
    > dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good. ...
    > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html


    Probably few people ever despised Paul Kimmage as much
    as he thinks. This series is rather a lot about Paul Kimmage
    as much as today's Tour - even his quest is for a Tour rider
    who reminds him of ... Paul Kimmage.

    It's an interesting angle considering he states that he has no interest in
    who wins the Tour.

    Hacking David Millar off is no great feat of truth-telling, especially
    since Millar was hardly verbally agile even before he was busted
    and disgusted. If Kimmage stops worrying about hacks in the
    pressroom and what people think of Paul Kimmage, he could
    bring an interesting perspective; I hope this series winds up
    being of interest to the readers as well as to Paul Kimmage's
    therapist.

    To put some perspective on it, Kimmage was attacked by everyone in the
    sport -riders, managers, journalists- after publishing A Rough Ride. People
    like Fignon and Stephen Roche literally turned their backs on him when he
    visited the Tour. I doubt that he's "worried" about the cycling hacks in
    the press room. Interesting that the hacks were trying to minimize the
    fallout from Spain right up until the shit really hit the fan. Same shit,
    different year, eh?
     
  10. Tim Lines

    Tim Lines Guest

    B. Lafferty wrote:
    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    > news:ZEXpg.114376$H71.82890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >>>>The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may
    >>>>enlighten those who don't quite understand the world the original poster
    >>>>chooses to live in.
    >>>
    >>>How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.

    >>
    >>Actually, that does deserve a better answer than my original reply. In all
    >>seriousness, your views and the authors', and the way they're expressed,
    >>are amazingly similar. In the case of the author (Paul Kimmage), we have
    >>the benefit of understanding, to some extent, how his views came to be. We
    >>learn about his background and experiences, and from that get a better
    >>idea for why he would question (a very kind way to put it) David Millar in
    >>the manner he did.
    >>
    >>Somewhere between Mr. Kimmel's challenges and those who would pretend that
    >>none of this matters is a middle ground that is not all that bad a place
    >>to be. But it's not nearly as fun a place to be because there are shades
    >>of gray, with the possibility that things might not be quite what they
    >>appear, so you can't feel so comfortable climbing upon soap boxes, telling
    >>the world that you are right and they are wrong.

    >
    >
    > And you know, I've been right about the doping as a major problem despite
    > omerta and heads in the sand. Thanks!


    How simplistic of you.
     
  11. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "Tim Lines" <SPAM@SPAM.com> wrote in message
    news:pPednfIWvs660jXZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com...
    > B. Lafferty wrote:
    >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    >> news:ZEXpg.114376$H71.82890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>>>>The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may
    >>>>>enlighten those who don't quite understand the world the original
    >>>>>poster chooses to live in.
    >>>>
    >>>>How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.
    >>>
    >>>Actually, that does deserve a better answer than my original reply. In
    >>>all seriousness, your views and the authors', and the way they're
    >>>expressed, are amazingly similar. In the case of the author (Paul
    >>>Kimmage), we have the benefit of understanding, to some extent, how his
    >>>views came to be. We learn about his background and experiences, and from
    >>>that get a better idea for why he would question (a very kind way to put
    >>>it) David Millar in the manner he did.
    >>>
    >>>Somewhere between Mr. Kimmel's challenges and those who would pretend
    >>>that none of this matters is a middle ground that is not all that bad a
    >>>place to be. But it's not nearly as fun a place to be because there are
    >>>shades of gray, with the possibility that things might not be quite what
    >>>they appear, so you can't feel so comfortable climbing upon soap boxes,
    >>>telling the world that you are right and they are wrong.

    >>
    >>
    >> And you know, I've been right about the doping as a major problem despite
    >> omerta and heads in the sand. Thanks!

    >
    > How simplistic of you.


    You have all the originality of a parrot.
     
  12. Tim Lines

    Tim Lines Guest

    B. Lafferty wrote:
    > "Tim Lines" <SPAM@SPAM.com> wrote in message
    > news:pPednfIWvs660jXZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@comcast.com...
    >
    >>B. Lafferty wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:ZEXpg.114376$H71.82890@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>The article is definitely worth reading, if only because it may
    >>>>>>enlighten those who don't quite understand the world the original
    >>>>>>poster chooses to live in.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>How simplistic of you. I would have though you capable of better.
    >>>>
    >>>>Actually, that does deserve a better answer than my original reply. In
    >>>>all seriousness, your views and the authors', and the way they're
    >>>>expressed, are amazingly similar. In the case of the author (Paul
    >>>>Kimmage), we have the benefit of understanding, to some extent, how his
    >>>>views came to be. We learn about his background and experiences, and from
    >>>>that get a better idea for why he would question (a very kind way to put
    >>>>it) David Millar in the manner he did.
    >>>>
    >>>>Somewhere between Mr. Kimmel's challenges and those who would pretend
    >>>>that none of this matters is a middle ground that is not all that bad a
    >>>>place to be. But it's not nearly as fun a place to be because there are
    >>>>shades of gray, with the possibility that things might not be quite what
    >>>>they appear, so you can't feel so comfortable climbing upon soap boxes,
    >>>>telling the world that you are right and they are wrong.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>And you know, I've been right about the doping as a major problem despite
    >>>omerta and heads in the sand. Thanks!

    >>
    >>How simplistic of you.

    >
    >
    > You have all the originality of a parrot.
    >
    >

    That's very funny, coming from you.
     
  13. mal

    mal Guest

    "B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    news:2gWpg.1968$PE1.363@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > Classless? Real journalists have been called that and much worse before.
    > The "poor guy" put himself in the press room to answer questions and only
    > one reporter present had the guts to point out the white elephant in the
    > room.


    It's actually just an ordinary coloured elephant.

    I white elephant is like the NO dome with no one to buy tickets. Or the
    Millenium Dome in London, where no one wants to buy tickets. It comes from
    the term "White Elephant Sale", where you off load all the crap you can't
    sell at full price. Not really like a yard sale, where you just off load all
    your crap.
     
  14. Dave Clary

    Dave Clary Guest

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:31:28 -0400, "mal" <malcolm1009@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    >
    >
    >I white elephant is like the NO dome with no one to buy tickets.


    I believe they just set a record for season ticket sales in NO. I
    venture to say that the majority of folks who attend are from outside
    of Orleans parish.

    Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
    Home: http://davidclary.com
     
  15. RonSonic

    RonSonic Guest

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:31:28 -0400, "mal" <malcolm1009@comcast.net> wrote:

    >
    >"B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    >news:2gWpg.1968$PE1.363@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> Classless? Real journalists have been called that and much worse before.
    >> The "poor guy" put himself in the press room to answer questions and only
    >> one reporter present had the guts to point out the white elephant in the
    >> room.

    >
    >It's actually just an ordinary coloured elephant.
    >
    >I white elephant is like the NO dome with no one to buy tickets. Or the
    >Millenium Dome in London, where no one wants to buy tickets. It comes from
    >the term "White Elephant Sale", where you off load all the crap you can't
    >sell at full price. Not really like a yard sale, where you just off load all
    >your crap.


    Which comes from white elephant, a most sacred, honorable thing in Hindu culture
    costing a vast fortune to maintain and keep in a proper style. It was typical
    among the Indian aristocracy to make a gift of a white elephant to an uppity
    young fellow to absorb all of his resources.

    Ron
     
  16. On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 06:16:04 -0500, Dave Clary <dave.clary@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:31:28 -0400, "mal" <malcolm1009@comcast.net>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>I white elephant is like the NO dome with no one to buy tickets.

    >
    >I believe they just set a record for season ticket sales in NO. I
    >venture to say that the majority of folks who attend are from outside
    >of Orleans parish.
    >
    >Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx
    >Home: http://davidclary.com


    Damn, Dave, where have you been? Its not like you've been moving
    around the country over the last decade, unless you really like Corpus
    Christi in your tag line. Last I heard, you had given up playing wind
    tag with the trucks in your streamliner, and that was a while ago.

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
  17. Allez1

    Allez1 Guest

    "mal" <malcolm1009@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:C-qdndjNPe2ebzXZnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@comcast.com...
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" <Magni@Italia.com> wrote in message
    > news:2gWpg.1968$PE1.363@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> Classless? Real journalists have been called that and much worse before.
    >> The "poor guy" put himself in the press room to answer questions and only
    >> one reporter present had the guts to point out the white elephant in the
    >> room.

    >
    > It's actually just an ordinary coloured elephant.
    >
    > I white elephant is like the NO dome with no one to buy tickets. Or the
    > Millenium Dome in London, where no one wants to buy tickets. It comes from
    > the term "White Elephant Sale", where you off load all the crap you can't
    > sell at full price. Not really like a yard sale, where you just off load
    > all your crap.


    A white elephant featured in the birth my of the Buddha. Just prior to
    giving birth to the Buddha, his mother has a dream in which a white elephant
    comes to her with the gift of a lotus flower. Even older is Ganesh in
    Hinduism.
     
  18. Stu Fleming

    Stu Fleming Guest

    Dave Clary wrote:
    > On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 06:31:28 -0400, "mal" <malcolm1009@comcast.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>I white elephant is like the NO dome with no one to buy tickets.

    >
    >
    > I believe they just set a record for season ticket sales in NO. I
    > venture to say that the majority of folks who attend are from outside
    > of Orleans parish.


    Dude, that was probably FEMA getting ready for the real season.
     
  19. Curtis L. Russell wrote:
    > Damn, Dave, where have you been? Its not like you've been moving
    > around the country over the last decade, unless you really like Corpus
    > Christi in your tag line. Last I heard, you had given up playing wind
    > tag with the trucks in your streamliner, and that was a while ago.


    Hi Curtis! Still hanging in Corpus and lurking on and off in rbr. I'm
    still cycling three times a week but it's in the safe confines of a
    fitness center away from the asshole CC drivers that put in ditches
    three times! Now I just ride to please the Polar HRM and pretend to
    win my virtual four and fifth tours (TIOOYK) on my LeMond RevMaster!
    :)

    Dave
    ..sigless on Google
     
  20. Kimmage has no credibility either, as he tolerated the doping he saw,
    participated in the doping himself, and then kept a lid on it all until
    he published a book about it (after his retirement).

    I can understand him being a cycling journalist on the merits of his
    pro career, but he has no right to criticze anyone else on the topic of
    cheating, as he himself had the opportunity to expose it (and chose not
    to).




    B. Lafferty wrote:
    > The Sunday Times July 02, 2006
    >
    >
    > Cycling: Cycle of ambition
    > PAUL KIMMAGE
    >
    > In 1986 I rode the Tour de France as a wide-eyed 24-year-old.Is
    > there anybody like me in this year's peloton?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ::nobreak::For a long time now I've had this love/hate
    > relationship with the Tour de France. I love the event but I hate the people
    > who have destroyed it. And every summer a recurring battle rages in my head
    > . . .
    >
    > "I'm really looking forward to The Open." "You should go backto
    > the Tour." "I went to the Tour last year." "Yeah, you stayed for three days
    > and wrote a story about drugs. Why not cover the race from start to finish?"
    > "Three weeks?" "Yeah." "That's a lot of drugs stories." "You don't have to
    > write exclusively about drugs; you've competed in this race three times. Why
    > not write a diary about how it feels to go back?" "Because I'd rather write
    > a diary about The Open." "You never played in The Open." "No, but I'm
    > working on my handicap." "Think about it." "No."
    >
    > But, four weeks ago, a funny thing happened. I had been planning
    > this bike ride in the Alps with my brothers and some friends for months. We
    > caught a flight to Geneva, hired a mini-bus and drove south to Grenoble
    > towards Gap. Grenoble used to be home during my time as a professional racer
    > and as we drove through the suburbs and up the Côte de Laffrey, my mind
    > started flooding with memories of what seems another life.
    >
    > "You know," I announced, "when I rode the Tour I was still with
    > the leaders when we came up here in 1987."
    >
    > "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the stage was a little
    > bit different to the one we're going to ride tomorrow."
    >
    > "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour the race was 400
    > kilometres longer and we had only one rest day."
    >
    > "You know," I said, "when I rode the Tour we were given just
    > five pairs of shorts and five jerseys to get us through the three weeks and
    > I had to hand-wash my kit after every second stage."
    >
    > It didn't take long before a white flag was raised. "Listen
    > mate, no offence," my friend Harry announced. "But I think we'll have to
    > restrict you to the number of times you can say 'When I rode the Tour'
    > tomorrow."
    >
    > "Fair enough," I conceded. "How does a hundred sound?" Next
    > morning everybody was buzzing as we pedalled out of Gap on a truly glorious
    > day. Three hours later, sweating and exhausted, we crested the summit of the
    > Col d'Izoard (2,360m), one of the Tour's most fabled climbs, and it was time
    > for a break. Harry was once an amateur international but had never
    > experienced anything like the Col d'Izoard.
    >
    > "Christ," he said, "that was brutal." And then he put his armon
    > my shoulder: "Listen, you can say 'When I rode the Tour' as much as you like
    > from now on. Respect." The rest of the group nodded in approval: "Yeah,
    > respect mate."
    >
    > I laughed and tried to brush it off but suddenly there was a
    > lump in my throat and I felt deeply moved. It was the nicest thing anybody
    > had ever said about my life as a professional cyclist; I had always been
    > dismissed as a journeyman who was never any good.
    >
    > Suddenly, I was reminded that there is much more to the Tour
    > than the race for the yellow jersey. And, at that moment, I knew I had to
    > return................
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2252601,00.html
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > begin 666 trans.gif
    > M1TE&.#EA`0`!`)$"````,P```/___P```"'Y! $```(`+ `````!``$`0 ("
    > $5 $`.P``
    > `
    > end
     
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