most bicycle taillights are unusable junk

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Jay wrote:

> I concede, a cheap taillight is probably bright enough for most situations,
> because it does not need to light up the road. Especially if the flash mode
> is used.

There are decent cheap flashers, and there are crappy cheap flashers
that use the poorest quality LEDs, and that are _not_ bright enough for
many situations. The cheap taillights also often fail in other ways,
such as the mounting or the battery cover. It's not just brightness.

> For headlights, I suggest everyone would benefit from the brightest light
> they can afford. I just poke along at 15 mph - even at that slow speed, I
> often need to react quickly to road debris, bad pavement, etc. It seems many
> regulars here are going significantly faster, so their problem is worse. And
> the consequences of a wreck are worse, at a faster speed.

There's a point of diminishing return in going as bright as possible,
but for 15mph, a 12W halogen light, or a 3W Cree LED, would be
sufficient, depending on the optics. For 7.5mph you can get by with
something like a typical dynamo light, though there is finally a good
LED lamp for dynamos.

 

[Harry (Lincoln, Nebraska)]

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:12:20 -0600, Patrick Lamb
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:09:40 -0600, Werehatrack
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>I'd be delighted (or perhaps better-lighted) if the damnthings came
>>with an internal selector of some sort that allowed me to simply
>>decide *once* which mode I wanted it to operate in (be that fast
>>flash, slow flash, constant or whatever) and then simply toggle off
>>and on with the external pushbutton. It's the multiple switch pulses
>>to achieve the task which annoy me. Yes, it's nice that they give me
>>a choice of ways that the device can work. No, it's NOT nice that I
>>have to make that choice *every damn time* that I turn it on.
>
>Agreed. Not to mention, if you start home while it's still light, you
>almost have to get off the bike when you turn them on (especially if
>you have >1 lights) to make sure (a) they're all on, and (b) they're
>on the right mode. Did push #2 catch?
>
>Blech.
>
>Email address works as is.


I find that I usually have time while waiting at a stop light to jump
off and turn the rear flashers on. As for the front...I have a cateye
headlight and I carry a MagLite flashlight for those "just in case"
moments that sometimes arise.

 

[Jay]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <7ff4c436-72c9-43a1-a581-
> [email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>> There seems to be a lot of fear of the dark among cyclists. They deal
>> with their fear by buying lights as powerful as those on a crotch-
>> rocket motorcycle - and, in certain cases, by claiming that nobody
>> should cycle at night with less.
>
> I suspect most cyclists are also motorists, and most motorists have at
> least once experienced a gut-wrenching last-minute avoidance of a
> cyclists with no lights or reflectors. The memory of this terror makes
> them aware of the importance of being visible and the fallibility of
> motorists, leading many riders to overcompensate. Some overcompensate
> by swearing off nighttime riding, others by buying brighter lights than
> most cars.
>
> As a motorist, I do worry that some of the bicycle lighting systems on
> the market today will increase the overall risk of accidents by glare-
> blinding drivers and other cyclists. Bike lights don't have nearly the
> regulation of motor vehicle lights, and many ultra-bright bike lights
> aim far too much of their light up at eye level.
>
> I've ridden behind a flashing DiNotte light on an unlit trail, and after
> a few minutes I decided to pull over and let that rider pull ahead until
> I couldn't see him. His tail light was so blinding I couldn't see the
> pavement -- it simply wasn't safe to ride behind that light.
>
> --
> [email protected] is Joshua Putnam
> <http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
> Braze your own bicycle frames. See
> <http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>
>
You are right, it is important to aim DiNotte lights carefully. The O ring
mount makes this very easy to do, and the light tends to stay where it is
aimed. The same cannot be said for many cheap lights. And regarding the
mount, there is nothing to adjust or wear out, except the O ring. I have
never worn one out, but I am sure Rob at DiNotte would replace the O ring
gratis.

As an aside, bike light technology, and battery technology, is constantly
evolving. What was a smart buy last season might be a distant also-ran this
season. It looks like DiNotte is backing away somewhat from proprietary
Li-Ion batteries, in favor of AA Ni-Mh batteries, available in any drug
store. Because recent developments in SLED technology have allowed less
troublesome Ni-Mh batteries to be used, according to the website.

J.

 

[Jay]

"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jay wrote:
>
>> $30 and no automatic shut off. plus i have to cycle thru 4 modes to
>> switch it off.
>> isn't that amazing?
>
> You don't have to cycle through four modes to shut it off. Read the
> instructions. Hint: think about how you can manually shut down a Windows
> based computer using the power button.
>
Au contraire,

Jay (me) did not write that.

Jay

 

[Werehatrack]

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:54:30 +1300, anth <[email protected]> may
have said:

>Does anyone use any mode other than off, on (constant), or quickly
>flashing? I've never seen any of the other modes used.

I have seen precisely one instance of a rider employing the Cylon scan
mode, and one whose light had a flash-middle/flash-sides-repeat mode
which seemed to have been intended to emphasize the brilliance of that
unit's side-facing LEDs. Otherwise, around here it's predominantly
fast flash, followed by slow flash, followed by constant.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[[email protected]]

On Dec 30, 1:10 pm, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> There's a point of diminishing return in going as bright as possible,
> but for 15mph, a 12W halogen light, or a 3W Cree LED, would be
> sufficient, depending on the optics. For 7.5mph you can get by with
> something like a typical dynamo light, though there is finally a good
> LED lamp for dynamos.

You can "get by" with typical dynamo lights at much, much higher
speeds than 7.5 mph! In fact, it seems that the people who test their
lights the most - those who ride 750 continuous miles nearly non-stop
- are more satisfied with dynamo lights than with battery lights.

In the current issue of _Bicycle Quarterly_, http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/vbqindex.html
there are results of a survey of Randonneurs USA members who rode
Paris-Brest-Paris 2007. That's the ride of 1200 km, with an average
finishing times ranging from about 70 to about 85 hours. Of the
respondents, nearly half used hub generators.

One of the survey questions was about their satisfaction with their
lighting systems. 24% of the battery light users would change their
lighting, but only 9% of the hub generator users would change theirs.

That article's available online at http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/BQPBPEquipsurvey.pdf

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Patrick Lamb]

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:10:03 -0800, SMS ???• ?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>There's a point of diminishing return in going as bright as possible,
>but for 15mph, a 12W halogen light, or a 3W Cree LED, would be
>sufficient, depending on the optics. For 7.5mph you can get by with
>something like a typical dynamo light, though there is finally a good
>LED lamp for dynamos.

Gee, if you need that much light to see at night, maybe you need to
either focus your lights or eat some carrots.

Pat

Email address works as is.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:54:30 +1300, anth <[email protected]> may
> have said:
>
> >Does anyone use any mode other than off, on (constant), or quickly
> >flashing? I've never seen any of the other modes used.
>
> I have seen precisely one instance of a rider employing the Cylon scan
> mode, and one whose light had a flash-middle/flash-sides-repeat mode
> which seemed to have been intended to emphasize the brilliance of that
> unit's side-facing LEDs. Otherwise, around here it's predominantly
> fast flash, followed by slow flash, followed by constant.

What I notice when browsing through the local bike shops is that bad
taillights offer 6 modes, good lights offer two.

Solid and blink,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

 

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Patrick Lamb wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:10:03 -0800, SMS ???• ?
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> There's a point of diminishing return in going as bright as possible,
>> but for 15mph, a 12W halogen light, or a 3W Cree LED, would be
>> sufficient, depending on the optics. For 7.5mph you can get by with
>> something like a typical dynamo light, though there is finally a good
>> LED lamp for dynamos.
>
> Gee, if you need that much light to see at night, maybe you need to
> either focus your lights or eat some carrots.

Both of those are actually very conservative headlights compared to what
is commercially available in HID.

Personally, I don't believe in going overboard on illumination because
it either requires carrying more weight in batteries, or having less
duration, plus there is usually no reason to spend hundreds of dollars
on lighting systems. There are exceptions of course, where an HID
system, or a high-end dynamo system is necessary, and cost be damned.

Type "bicycle lights dynamo experts" into Google, then click on "I'm
Feeling Lucky" and you can see what many experts have to say on the subject.

Most bicycle lights can be aimed, but not focused, and the optics are a
compromise on the lower powered lights.

Actually I do eat a lot of carrots. What you should understand is that
as you age, your night vision gets poorer, and you will need more
illumination at 50 years old than at 25 years old.

 

[Bob Cooper]

The big problem I see with most LED taillights is that they are made
to mount on a seatpost.

With my Carradice bag or seat pack hiding a rear view of the seatpost,
I need to kludge the taillight onto my frames elsewhere.

Such a simple thing would increase sales of any given light, but the
designers do not seem interested in the problem.

Bob -- Uses Three CatEye Taillights on One Bike -- Cooper

 

[Bob Cooper]

In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester argues that a three-inch
SAE amber reflector in back and a three-watt, generator-driven
tungsten lamp in front is all that are needed.

On the one hand, if you've got it, use it.

http://peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp

On the other hand, if Forester's scheme were the national standard,
and if the police enforced this standard by stopping cyclists at night
and fining them, that would be a huge improvement over the present
situation in the United States, wouldn't it?

The classic fiasco, thankfully rare, is the case of two cyclists, both
unlit, one going north in the north-bound lane and the other going
south in the north-bound lane, who collide head-on in the dark. Or the
unlit cyclist who collides with a jogger or pedestrian.

More out there than just motorists.

Bob -- I Take the Middle Road -- Cooper

 

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Bob Cooper wrote:
> The big problem I see with most LED taillights is that they are made
> to mount on a seatpost.
>
> With my Carradice bag or seat pack hiding a rear view of the seatpost,
> I need to kludge the taillight onto my frames elsewhere.
>
> Such a simple thing would increase sales of any given light, but the
> designers do not seem interested in the problem.

The CatEye TL-DL1000/1100 can mount on the rear rack. I've seen several
tail lights that mount on the seat stays as well.

If you have a rear rack, be sure that it provides a tail light mount.
See "http://bicycleluggageracks.com".

 

[Lou Holtman]

Bob Cooper wrote:
> In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester argues that a three-inch
> SAE amber reflector in back and a three-watt, generator-driven
> tungsten lamp in front is all that are needed.
>
> On the one hand, if you've got it, use it.
>
> http://peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp

Big Bang: $975,- It's expensive, but hé it is a nice lamp.
Adapter: $3,- ??? Didn't it fit in the lamp box?

Lou

 

[[email protected]]

On Dec 31, 10:51 am, Bob Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:
> In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester argues that a three-inch
> SAE amber reflector in back and a three-watt, generator-driven
> tungsten lamp in front is all that are needed.

The law requires a powered light, not just a reflector. So no matter
how eloquently Mr. Forester argues, its still illegal to have just an
amber reflector. The 3 watt generator light in front is quite
adequate and works very well. Provided you are using a quality 3 watt
light such as the Schmidt E6. 3 watt lights such as the $25 B&M that
don't provide any light are not adequate. But if you stop, then the
vast majority of generator lights go dark. So you need a battery
powered light that stays on when you stop. Or one of those new
generator lights that has a capacitor built in so it stays lit for a
few minutes after stopping. Imagine if car lights went dark when they
stopped at stoplights at night? Doesn't make sense for all of a
bike's front lights to go dark if it stops.

I use multiple rear blinkie lights at multiple angles and heights.
And several front lights at different heights. Battery and generator
driven. And reflective clothes and reflective stickers on the bike.
I want to see and be seen at night. Both are important when you are a
200 pound bike surrounded by 5,000 pound steel vehicles going many
times faster than you.


>
> On the one hand, if you've got it, use it.
>
> http://peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp
>
> On the other hand, if Forester's scheme were the national standard,
> and if the police enforced this standard by stopping cyclists at night
> and fining them, that would be a huge improvement over the present
> situation in the United States, wouldn't it?
>
> The classic fiasco, thankfully rare, is the case of two cyclists, both
> unlit, one going north in the north-bound lane and the other going
> south in the north-bound lane, who collide head-on in the dark. Or the
> unlit cyclist who collides with a jogger or pedestrian.
>
> More out there than just motorists.
>
> Bob -- I Take the Middle Road -- Cooper

 

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Bob Cooper wrote:
> In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester argues that a three-inch
> SAE amber reflector in back and a three-watt, generator-driven
> tungsten lamp in front is all that are needed.

That's reason enough to realize that it isn't all that's needed.

> On the other hand, if Forester's scheme were the national standard,
> and if the police enforced this standard by stopping cyclists at night
> and fining them, that would be a huge improvement over the present
> situation in the United States, wouldn't it?

Probably not. Most night cyclists at least have an LED flasher, and
that's enough for motorists to see them, and those without LED flashers
at least have the CSPC-required reflector installed.

Rather than requiring an ineffective headlight (which AFAIK is already a
minimum requirement in most areas, just not enforced), encouraging the
use of "being seen" front flashers with white LEDs would at least make
the cyclists too dumb to buy decent lights more visible to motorists.

 

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Lou Holtman wrote:
> Bob Cooper wrote:
>> In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester argues that a three-inch
>> SAE amber reflector in back and a three-watt, generator-driven
>> tungsten lamp in front is all that are needed.
>>
>> On the one hand, if you've got it, use it.
>>
>> http://peterwhitecycles.com/bigbang.asp
>
> Big Bang: $975,- It's expensive, but hé it is a nice lamp.
> Adapter: $3,- ??? Didn't it fit in the lamp box?

I found that very amusing as well. I guess when you're the sole
distributor you don't have to do any sales and marketing.

 

[Squat'n Dive]

for the longpress to power off : you'd think
that should work, and it did on the involuntarily donated $20 light,
but not on the $7 trash replacement that is resined in place
to prevent further donations.
>
> With my Carradice bag or seat pack hiding a rear view of the seatpost,
> I need to kludge the taillight onto my frames elsewhere.

topeak rack has provisions for the taillight. of course lbs did not
have a matching Topeak light that screws into the rack. hence they
sold me
a $20 light that latches onto the end of the rack (see donation above)

> Such a simple thing would increase sales of any given light, but the
> designers do not seem interested in the problem.
>
pretty much all the taillights on peterwhitecycles.com
are either rack or fender mountable
some are battery powered. whether you want to leave a $30-40 light
on the bike is another matter

 

[Squat'n Dive]

On Dec 31, 12:03 pm, SMS $B;[h\J8(B* $B2F(B <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Rather than requiring an ineffective headlight (which AFAIK is already a
> minimum requirement in most areas, just not enforced), encouraging the

it's enforced around here when you are riding along a border of an
affluent
part of town and a neighboring dumpster housing the people serving the
affluent
part at the wee hours of the night. speaking from experience.

> use of "being seen" front flashers with white LEDs would at least make
> the cyclists too dumb to buy decent lights more visible to motorists.

it's better than nothing and serves as a backup when you caught
with your pants down, er, battery discharged. happened to me last
night:
i keep a habit of recharging my l&m solo only when the battery
runs completely dry. it sure slows you down, but, of course,
not as much as riding without any front light.

 

[SMS 斯蒂文• 夏]

Squat'n Dive wrote:
> On Dec 31, 12:03 pm, SMS 斯蒂文* 夏 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Rather than requiring an ineffective headlight (which AFAIK is already a
>> minimum requirement in most areas, just not enforced), encouraging the
>
> it's enforced around here when you are riding along a border of an
> affluent
> part of town and a neighboring dumpster housing the people serving the
> affluent
> part at the wee hours of the night. speaking from experience.

They'll find something to hassle you about if it's not a lack of bicycle
lights. Drive through in a beat up car and they'll hassle you too. My
wife worked for home care agency where one of the home health aids was a
big black guy who drove a beat up car. He was the nicest guy, but he was
always being hassled by the police when he would go to visit a patient.
The agency finally began alerting the police in advance when he was
going to be making a home visit, so they knew he was supposed to be there.

 

[[email protected]]

On Dec 31, 1:01 pm, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Dec 31, 10:51 am, Bob Cooper <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In his book, Effective Cycling, John Forester argues that a three-inch
> > SAE amber reflector in back and a three-watt, generator-driven
> > tungsten lamp in front is all that are needed.
>
> The law requires a powered light, not just a reflector. So no matter
> how eloquently Mr. Forester argues, its still illegal to have just an
> amber reflector.

Actually, the law varies state by state. Most states do not require a
powered taillight, last I checked. Mine does, but it's in the small
minority.

Nonetheless, I greatly prefer riding with a rear taillight.

> The 3 watt generator light in front is quite
> adequate and works very well. Provided you are using a quality 3 watt
> light such as the Schmidt E6.

Even less expensive ones can work very well. I've never had a
Schmidt. I mostly use ancient Soubitez bottom bracket generators, of
which I have several. But I've also done fine with Union generators
and others. IME, the lamp optics are more expensive than the
generator manufacturer.

> But if you stop, then the
> vast majority of generator lights go dark. So you need a battery
> powered light that stays on when you stop.

I never found that to be a problem. The only places I imagined it
would be a concern were these:

1) If I were the first vehicle stopped at a traffic light or stop
sign, and a car coming from my right were to turn left, cutting the
corner and hitting me. This is actually a good application for a side-
facing reflector on a front wheel.

2) If I were in the center, dedicated turn lane on a multi-lane road,
waiting to turn left, and an oncoming car also merged into the same
lane, also wanting to turn left. This is a good application for a
front facing reflector.

Still, I dealt with those lane situations frequently for years, with
no problems. I now have a white LED blinky on the front, which was
given to me as a gift. I think it's fine. In addition, my headlights
have reflector rings surrounding the lamp's lens. There's also a
collection of various reflective bits on the bike.

I've been a regular night rider and commuter since 1977. No problems
yet.

- Frank Krygowski