Re: Recokeration



Actually, it depends on whether you treat "algae" as the plural form of
the Latin "alga", or "algae" as a singular form of the English word for
the "substance".

There are many mistakes made by people attempting to apply Latin rules
to words which are now part of mainstream English. Vide the fuss people
make over stadium/stadia, octopus/octopi - and in the Greek, there are
people who persist (wrongly) in treating "kudos" as the plural of
"kudo"! We often wrongly use "media" as a singular - except that
"media" is not the Latin for "newspapers, TV and radio" anyway.

A botanist (or other scientist) would speak of a single "alga" and
several "algae". The man in the street, even if he has not read
Fowler, would probably say "algae is", and his interlocutors would
understand.

I'm not being pedantic, just nitpicking. It is a subtle distinction
but, I think, an important one.;)


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

So, do you ride with a club?

No, but I carry a heavy spanner.
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Danny Colyer wrote:
> *
> I also can't abide the use of "data is" or "this data", though sadly
> those are now accepted by the OED :-(
> *


Data! That's the one I was trying to remember as I wrote my previous
post.

Is "data" a Latin word or an English word? In Latin, it is the plural
of "datum". In English, it has a legitimate use as a singular or (I'm
not sure of the proper term) a "collective". In the soft sense, as an
English word, it means something like "information".

Many of our words have Latin origins. Some words have the same spelling
and pronunciation as the Latin, but are now English words in their own
right. I think dat is one such.

I think that the insistence on "data are", "none is" and so on are
shibboleths.


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

So, do you ride with a club?

No, but I carry a heavy spanner.
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Danny Colyer wrote:
> *
> I also can't abide the use of "data is" or "this data", though sadly
> those are now accepted by the OED :-(
> *


Data! That's the one I was trying to remember as I wrote my previous
post.

Is "data" a Latin word or an English word? In Latin, it is the plural
of "datum". In English, it has a legitimate use as a singular or (I'm
not sure of the proper term) a "collective". In the soft sense, as an
English word, it means something like "information".

Many of our words have Latin origins. Some words have the same spelling
and pronunciation as the Latin, but are now English words in their own
right. I think dat is one such.

I think that the insistence on "data are", "none is" and so on are
shibboleths.


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

So, do you ride with a club?

No, but I carry a heavy spanner.
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You have had a string of outstanding riding stories to which I have not
responded. I'm probably just beginning to expect such excellence from
you and am taking it for granted. Beautiful prose, Mike. Please at least
keep writing. If you quit riding you could always just make the stories
up.


--
harper - HOT!

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

"You guys aren't thinking this through. Hey, where's your other... BANG.
" - Brian MacKenzie
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Danny Colyer wrote:
> *But each is a communication medium, therefore collectively they are
> communication media.
> *


Surely when people say 'the media is', they are referring to the group
of people, companies, newspapers, tv stations etc. that communicate over
the communication mediums, rather than the collection of media that you
are assuming. 'The media' is a noun for that group in the same way 'the
herd' is a singular noun for a group of cows.

Joe


--
joemarshall - dumb blonde

my pics http://gallery.unicyclist.com/album483
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cathwood wrote:
> *My job is more concerned with communication and as you both know what
> you mean by data are and data is, it doesn't matter which one you
> use.
> *


You are of course totally correct.

As Wittgenstein said, "The meaning of a word is its use."

(He also said, "Hello, Love," each evening when he got home from work,
but that is quoted less often.)

However, one must not overlook the enormous fun that can be had when
engaging in linguistic and etymological pedantry.

<<'The media' is a noun for that group in the same way 'the herd' is a
singular noun for a group of cows. >>

That's pretty much what I meant.


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

So, do you ride with a club?

No, but I carry a heavy spanner.
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:49:46 -0500, "cathwood" wrote:

>My job is more concerned with communication and as you both know what
>you mean by data are and data is, it doesn't matter which one you use.

Ooowww! Is the only purpose of communication to get meaning across?

To me, communication can be much richer than that. It can build bonds
between people, it can be pleasant in its own right (for a variety of
reasons including the pleasure of linguistic pedantry) etc.

Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
--
"Unicycling is like glue: you have to stick with it, and it's not to be sniffed at - Mikefule"
 
Mikefule wrote:
> *However, one must not overlook the enormous fun that can be had when
> engaging in linguistic and etymological pedantry.*
I'm reminded of the classic quote from 'Andy Richter Controls the
Universe' where, as a technical writer, he muses
"Language - that thing that means stuff."


--
GILD - Waffle-******, Time-bider and JCTK

if you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.--
'alice' (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?) 'roosevelt'
(http://tinyurl.com/963jr) 'longworth' (http://tinyurl.com/78ybd)

I feel like a 'fugitive' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Daves-Tattoos)
from the law of averages.-- 'william h mauldin'
(http://www.johnconyers.com/)
...using nietzsche's metaphysics to escape from
christianity...-'metro_tramp on the value of metaphysics'
(http://tinyurl.com/4sjw6)-
it's hard to be sure, and good to be paranoid...john childs on life on
the internet
'harper' (http://tinyurl.com/c9epx)
'NAMASTE!' (http://tinyurl.com/4qcxw)
'Dave' (http://www.lyricsdir.com/d/deep-purple/child-in-time.php)
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Klaas Bil wrote:
> *On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:49:46 -0500, "cathwood" wrote:
>
> >My job is more concerned with communication and as you both know
> what
> >you mean by data are and data is, it doesn't matter which one you
> use.
>
> Ooowww! Is the only purpose of communication to get meaning across?
>
> Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
> --
> "Unicycling is like glue: you have to stick with it, and it's not to
> be sniffed at - Mikefule" *


Absolutely not, it's about loads of other things, such as propaganda,
making stuff happen, shaping your world. Nevertheless as long as people
understand the same thing by it, accuracy isn't important. Or at least
that's my half penny worth of linguistic and etymological pendantry.

Cathy


--
cathwood - Lunicyclist

A thought is just a thought.

http://www.chuckingandtwirling.co.uk
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cathwood wrote:
> *as long as people understand the same thing by it, accuracy isn't
> important*

Which, in theory, is fine.
On these fora we've seen transatlantic breakdowns in communication over
words like '*****-pack' and the like. So many concept are known by such
a variety of names in different parts of the world, we do need some kind
of standard to aspire to in our use of language to have any hope of
being understood.
This (arguably) used to be the 'Queen's English'. Nowadays we can
probably talk about something like 'CNN English'.

My point is that there are more than enough hurdles to efficient and
effective communication, to compound them by allowing the remaining
islands of comminality to be eroded by lazyness, is just inexcusable.

Pedantics Rule. OK?


--
GILD - Waffle-******, Time-bider and JCTK

if you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.--
'alice' (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?) 'roosevelt'
(http://tinyurl.com/963jr) 'longworth' (http://tinyurl.com/78ybd)

I feel like a 'fugitive' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Daves-Tattoos)
from the law of averages.-- 'william h mauldin'
(http://www.johnconyers.com/)
...using nietzsche's metaphysics to escape from
christianity...-'metro_tramp on the value of metaphysics'
(http://tinyurl.com/4sjw6)-
it's hard to be sure, and good to be paranoid...john childs on life on
the internet
'harper' (http://tinyurl.com/c9epx)
'NAMASTE!' (http://tinyurl.com/4qcxw)
'Dave' (http://www.lyricsdir.com/d/deep-purple/child-in-time.php)
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Gild. As the focus of this thread changed you seem to have found the
shift key. [image: http://img115.exs.cx/img115/9916/z4dwink.gif]

Padantism is often maligned and misunderstood. Pedantics only want to
help, honestly.


--
unicus - EMUnicyclist

'Photos' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Photos-from-unicus)
'Videos' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/unicus)
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cathwood wrote:
> *Nevertheless as long as people understand the same thing by it,
> accuracy isn't important. *


Absolutely. Understanding is all. However, accuracy can aid
understanding:

"Ok, son, I'll hold this nail in place and when I nod my head, you hit
it hard!"

:D

For what it's worth, I -love- wrestling with and mucking around with
language as much as I can't resist shouting at redundant apostrophe's.









;)


--
s7ev0 - woooaaaah!


Avatar courtesy of Loosemoose.
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unicus wrote:
> *Gild. As the focus of this thread changed you seem to have found the
> shift key. *

Thanks for noticing.

I was actually busy typing an email this morning and I suddenly thought
to myself that it's been a while since I had a shake-up of sorts in my
life.
(That's apart from breaking up and moving out. I'm talking about the
important stuff.)

So I decided to start using capital letters and punctuation.
Whoosh.


--
GILD - Waffle-******, Time-bider and JCTK

if you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.--
'alice' (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?) 'roosevelt'
(http://tinyurl.com/963jr) 'longworth' (http://tinyurl.com/78ybd)

I feel like a 'fugitive' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Daves-Tattoos)
from the law of averages.-- 'william h mauldin'
(http://www.johnconyers.com/)
...using nietzsche's metaphysics to escape from
christianity...-'metro_tramp on the value of metaphysics'
(http://tinyurl.com/4sjw6)-
it's hard to be sure, and good to be paranoid...john childs on life on
the internet
'harper' (http://tinyurl.com/c9epx)
'NAMASTE!' (http://tinyurl.com/4qcxw)
'Dave' (http://www.lyricsdir.com/d/deep-purple/child-in-time.php)
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GILD wrote:
> *So I decided to start using capital letters and punctuation.*

In that case could you say "kewl" more, to even things out?

Just like Sendhair's small green writing, it's what we've got used to...
:)

Phil


--
phil - ex-studenty type

Good, bad... I'm the guy with the Cattle Prod.
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we'll see what we can do...


--
GILD - Waffle-******, Time-bider and JCTK

if you can't say anything good about someone, sit right here by me.--
'alice' (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?) 'roosevelt'
(http://tinyurl.com/963jr) 'longworth' (http://tinyurl.com/78ybd)

I feel like a 'fugitive' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/Daves-Tattoos)
from the law of averages.-- 'william h mauldin'
(http://www.johnconyers.com/)
...using nietzsche's metaphysics to escape from
christianity...-'metro_tramp on the value of metaphysics'
(http://tinyurl.com/4sjw6)-
it's hard to be sure, and good to be paranoid...john childs on life on
the internet
'harper' (http://tinyurl.com/c9epx)
'NAMASTE!' (http://tinyurl.com/4qcxw)
'Dave' (http://www.lyricsdir.com/d/deep-purple/child-in-time.php)
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> Absolutely. Understanding is all. However, accuracy can aid
> understanding:


Okay, okay, I give in. I was probably only feeling defensive because I
don't know these things and feel my English isn't brilliant.

Cathy


--
cathwood - Lunicyclist

A thought is just a thought.

http://www.chuckingandtwirling.co.uk
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Mikefule wrote:
> I think that the insistence on "data are", "none is" and so on are
> shibboleths.

I think you're right.

--
Danny Colyer (my reply address is valid but checked infrequently)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine
 
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