running cold

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by anonymous, Mar 17, 2004.

  1. anonymous

    anonymous Guest

    it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    easier. why exactly is this? i know you sweat less, and the
    air probably has more oxygen, but is there more to it?
     
    Tags:


  2. In article <4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>, anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote:
    > it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    > easier. why exactly is this? i know you sweat less, and
    > the air probably has more oxygen, but is there more to it?

    You're on the right track.

    The answer is better cooling. In 90f degree weather, the air
    is almost as hot as your body temperature, so the only
    cooling mechanism available is sweating. In 40f degree
    weather, there's an enormous difference. The surrounding air
    acts as an enormous heat sink, and you stay cool. The only
    "temperature regulation" you need is appropriate clothing.

    Staying cool is important, because your body can only heat
    up so much before you suffer from heat exhaustion. Cold
    weather ensures that temperature regulation is not a
    limiting factor in performance.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  3. Amh

    Amh Guest

    anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote in message news:<4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>...
    > it's common knowledge that running in cold weather
    > is easier.

    It is not easier to run in cold weather. Why would anybody
    think that is common knowledge?

    It is just as easy to run when it is 90 when it is 10. It
    all depends on the weather that you can adapt to and how
    you dress for it. I've run PRs in just about every month of
    the year and in all different temperatures. I ran a 4 mile
    pr in February when the temperatures were a bit below
    freezing. My 5 mile pr was set in July when the temperature
    was in the 80's.

    I've found that I can adapt to hot and cold well. A few
    others I run with disappear from November until April
    (winter here in the Northern Hemisphere). Still others hate
    running when the temperature goes above
    60.

    why exactly is this? i know you sweat less, and
    > the air probably has more oxygen, but is there more to it?

    Why would the air have significantly more or less oxygen?
    The percentage of oxygen in the air is pretty standard at
    21%. I'm sure temperature plays a role in the amount of
    oxygen (pv=nrt and all that stuff) but the atmosphere is so
    expansive that any change due to temperature is
    insignificant.

    I'd guess that you are well adapted to running in cold
    weather. It may have to do with how your body regulates its
    own temperature.

    Count your lucky stars that cold weather doesn't affect your
    running drastically.

    Andy
     
  4. Topcounsel

    Topcounsel Guest

    >Why would the air have significantly more or less
    >oxygen? The percentage of oxygen in the air is pretty
    >standard at 21%

    Hot air has less of everything than does cold air. As air is
    heated, it expands, giving a lower concentration of
    molecules per volume measure. So, it has less oxygen per cc,
    less nitrogen per cc, etc., etc.
     
  5. anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote in message news:<4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>...
    > it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    > easier. why exactly is this? i know you sweat less, and
    > the air probably has more oxygen, but is there more to it?

    Because the CO2 in your brain gets cold, thereby
    reinterating the counter-integers into a cozclosmatic that
    becomes interfused with the hydrogen molecules, thereby
    producing negative antigens that inevitably lead to the
    inevitable. Clear enough now?
     
  6. In article <2b961d1f.0403171124.631634f8@posting.google.com>, amh wrote:
    > anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote in message
    > news:<4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>...
    >> it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    >> easier.
    >
    > It is not easier to run in cold weather. Why would anybody
    > think that is common knowledge?
    >
    > It is just as easy to run when it is 90 when it is 10. It
    > all depends on the weather that you can adapt to and how
    > you dress for it. I've

    Here's some data from several half-marathons. The times are
    for 50th place. The stars denote "high stakes" team point
    races -- these data points may be questioned because points
    races draw a lot of fast runners.

    Temperature is a pretty good predictor of the 50th place
    finish line.

    Gretes Gallop Oct 02: 70s 1:22:36 Manhattan Half Aug 02: 88,
    88% humidity 1:25:47

    Brooklyn Half Mar 03: 45 deg 1:19:35 Queens Half May 03:
    unknown temp 1:22:05 Bronx Half Jul 03: 80s sunny 1:26:53
    Manhattan Half Aug 03: 78, humid 1:24:11 Staten Is Half Oct
    03: ? 1:21:05 (*) Gretes Gallop Oct 03: 59 deg 1:21:44

    Colon Cancer Half Mar 03: 34 deg 1:20:06 (*)

    However, this effect seems considerably less pronounced
    (perhaps even non-existent) at shorter distances. This
    personally surprised me -- I was expecting to see similar
    results to the half marathon. So this is consistent with
    your experience.

    I've also noticed that some of my club members set all-time
    AG% personal bests during summer races of 5 miles or less.

    > I'd guess that you are well adapted to running in cold
    > weather. It may have to do with how your body regulates
    > its own temperature.

    It seems that most people are pretty well adapted to at
    least somewhat cold weather.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  7. On 17 Mar 2004 11:54:46 -0800, hottbodd4u@hotmail.com (Penile
    Dysfunction) wrote:

    >Because the CO2 in your brain gets cold, thereby
    >reinterating the counter-integers into a cozclosmatic that
    >becomes interfused with the hydrogen molecules, thereby
    >producing negative antigens that inevitably lead to the
    >inevitable. Clear enough now?

    Stupid boy.

    Everybody knows it's because the Running Pixies that make
    your feet float over the ground only come out in when the
    temperature is below 5C.
     
  8. Onemarathon

    Onemarathon Guest

    In article <4vch50172q6ao34cgfcoqgooofj1rp4ngb@4ax.com>,
    I tan I epi tas <thrashtheforeignguys@thermopylae.com> wrote:

    > On 17 Mar 2004 11:54:46 -0800, hottbodd4u@hotmail.com
    > (Penile Dysfunction) wrote:
    >
    > >Because the CO2 in your brain gets cold, thereby
    > >reinterating the counter-integers into a cozclosmatic
    > >that becomes interfused with the hydrogen molecules,
    > >thereby producing negative antigens that inevitably lead
    > >to the inevitable. Clear enough now?
    >
    > Stupid boy.
    >
    > Everybody knows it's because the Running Pixies that make
    > your feet float over the ground only come out in when the
    > temperature is below 5C.

    yes, but if you run after dark, you must wear a hat made of
    tinfoil and whistle In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida in order to keep the
    Ice Weasles away.

    just a word to the wise.

    Cam
     
  9. John Galt

    John Galt Guest

    The Aug 2002 half marathon listed gives the weather as 88F and 88% RH.
    This combination is not possible in temperate zones of N. Americai as it
    implies a dewpoint of 84F. Simply not possible. So I checked the
    historical weather for NYC, Central Park (weatherground.com accesses
    historical data for example). The race start was 7:30am The temps and RH's
    were:
    6:51am 78F, 84%
    7:51am 80F, 79%
    8:51am 83F, 72%
    9:51am 85F, 59%.

    The dewpoint throughout was 73F, nowhere near 84F. The RH
    was as high as 88% only as late as 5:51 am, when the temp
    was 77F. The temperature did not reach 88F until 10:51,
    well after the the race ended. This illustrates the
    inaccuracies of reporting of race conditions. So often I
    see the conditions exaggerated by taking the maximum
    relative humidity in a day (usually early in the morning,
    when the temp is much cooler) and combining it with the
    high temp later in the same, when of course the RH must be
    much lower as well.. Conclusion one erroneously reaches:
    Must have been a brutal day. That said, 73F dewpoint is
    tough to run a race in.

    "Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:slrnc5hcl4.dpd.abuse@panix2.panix.com...
    > In article
    > <2b961d1f.0403171124.631634f8@posting.google.com>,
    > amh wrote:
    > > anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote in message
    news:<4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>...
    > >> it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    > >> easier.
    > >
    > > It is not easier to run in cold weather. Why would
    > > anybody think that is common knowledge?
    > >
    > > It is just as easy to run when it is 90 when it is 10.
    > > It all depends on the weather that you can adapt to and
    > > how you dress for it. I've
    >
    > Here's some data from several half-marathons. The times
    > are for 50th
    place.
    > The stars denote "high stakes" team point races -- these
    > data points may
    be
    > questioned because points races draw a lot of fast
    > runners.
    >
    > Temperature is a pretty good predictor of the 50th place
    > finish line.
    >
    > Gretes Gallop Oct 02: 70s 1:22:36 Manhattan Half Aug 02:
    > 88, 88% humidity 1:25:47
    >
    > Brooklyn Half Mar 03: 45 deg 1:19:35 Queens Half May 03:
    > unknown temp 1:22:05 Bronx Half Jul 03: 80s sunny 1:26:53
    > Manhattan Half Aug 03: 78, humid 1:24:11 Staten Is Half
    > Oct 03: ? 1:21:05 (*) Gretes Gallop Oct 03: 59 deg 1:21:44
    >
    > Colon Cancer Half Mar 03: 34 deg 1:20:06 (*)
    >
    > However, this effect seems considerably less pronounced
    > (perhaps even non-existent) at shorter distances. This
    > personally surprised me -- I was expecting to see similar
    > results to the half marathon. So this is
    consistent
    > with your experience.
    >
    > I've also noticed that some of my club members set all-
    > time AG% personal
    bests
    > during summer races of 5 miles or less.
    >
    > > I'd guess that you are well adapted to running in cold
    > > weather. It may have to do with how your body regulates
    > > its own temperature.
    >
    > It seems that most people are pretty well adapted to at
    > least somewhat
    cold
    > weather.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > --
    > Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  10. Jma

    Jma Guest

    "Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:slrnc5gukm.jeh.abuse@panix2.panix.com...
    > In article
    > <4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>,
    anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote:
    > > it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    > > easier. why exactly is this? i know you sweat less,
    > > and the air probably has more oxygen, but is there
    > > more to it?
    >
    > You're on the right track.
    >
    > The answer is better cooling. In 90f degree weather, the
    > air is almost as
    hot as
    > your body temperature, so the only cooling mechanism
    > available is
    sweating. In
    > 40f degree weather, there's an enormous difference. The
    > surrounding air
    acts as
    > an enormous heat sink, and you stay cool. The only
    > "temperature
    regulation"
    > you need is appropriate clothing.

    > Staying cool is important, because your body can only heat
    > up so much
    before
    > you suffer from heat exhaustion. Cold weather ensures that
    > temperature regulation is not a limiting factor in
    > performance.
    >
    I was just thinking of this yesterday as I ran in 25F temps
    and working hard on a run that was pretty easy to do all
    summer long. I ran faster in general than I did this summer,
    probably as a result of training and more experience.
    However, I was slower than when I run indoors on the track,
    but that could have easily been the hill factor. I was also
    working harder at a slower pace than on the treadmill. In my
    case, the cold weather affects my breathing (reactive
    airway), especially combined with exhaust fumes from passing
    vehicles. If it weren't for the breathing thing I'd probably
    prefer cold weather running for the temp regulation you
    mentioned. I'm much less self-conscious in tights and a
    fleece than half dressed in shorts and a tank.

    Jenn
     
  11. Drlith

    Drlith Guest

    "onemarathon" <cam_wilson@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote in message
    news:cam_wilson-4AB8A3.20301317032004@news.bellglobal.com...
    > yes, but if you run after dark, you must wear a hat made
    > of tinfoil and whistle In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida in order to keep
    > the Ice Weasles away.
    >
    > just a word to the wise.

    I've also been trying that one to ward off armed robbers,
    and it seems to work pretty well.
     
  12. Dot

    Dot Guest

    anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote:
    > it's common knowledge that running in cold weather
    > is easier.

    Hmmm. If this is so, why do many people on r.r complain
    about the cold and/or run on treadmills when it's "cold",
    whatever that means? Ok, they also complain about the heat
    and/or run on treadmills then. :)

    >why exactly is this? i know you sweat less, and the air
    >probably has more oxygen, but is there more to it?

    Since I'm not sure what you mean by "cold" nor "easier" nor
    what you are comparing it to, I'll take usenet license and
    interpret in a broad sense
    - actually two senses ;) The "easy" itself will refer to (1)
    number of hassles and (2) pace. I'll assume "easier"
    refers to a comparison with "warmer" weather ;)

    [If you're only interested in the +40F to +80F range or
    something near that, then skip to end - BUT you didn't
    indicate that in question :)]

    I'd suggest that the easiest running is at some optimal
    temperature - neither hot nor cold - that probably depends
    on each person and their training as well as heat/cold
    adaptation at the time. As things get colder or hotter from
    there, pace (assuming decent footing - that is, not snow/ice
    or sand dunes) will probably get slower.

    Based on what people here seem to think of as ideal
    temperatures for a marathon (based on race reports), I'm
    guessing for many (not all) people the optimum temperature
    may be near 40F/5C (plus or minus a few degrees), esp. if
    overcast. It's also about half way between some of the
    extreme temperatures I've seen for races. I think Badwater
    gets up around 120F/60C (maybe 130F and road temperatures
    much higher). Fairbanks has races at -40F/-40C, maybe
    colder, and the Iditarod Invitational currently in progress
    has temperatures at least that low. Guess where the midpoint
    between those extremes are, approximately.

    Hassles:
    1. Fluids Hot - need lots of water and electrolytes to
    reduce chance of heat injuries - discussed here
    frequently. Keeping fluids at a palatable temperature
    might be an issue. Cold - also need water to reduce
    chance of cold injuries (hypothermia, frostbite), but
    fluids are likely to freeze unless you master the
    equipment and techniques for keeping your fluid fluid at
    -20F. You may not sweat as much (unless overdressed), but
    you'll be losing moisture through respiration. Cold air
    (+10F/-12C and colder) tends to be dry. (I don't have
    quantities or temperature relations on how much is lost,
    but it is something I'm looking for literature on.)

    Somewhere in between, you just need *some* fluid and it's
    not going to freeze on you and will be palatable.

    2. Clothing Hot - some go minimal, some dress to minimize
    skin exposure, but some degeree of concern is needed.
    Cold - lots of issues as to how to layer to keep warm but
    not sweat. Discussed here frequently.

    Somewhere in between, you just need one layer without a lot
    of thought for what to wear.

    3. Muscle/tendon function Hot - action will probably be more
    fluid than in cold temperatures unless overheated. Cold -
    muscles, even when running for 1/2 hr or more, may not be
    as internally warm at -20F as at +80F. (Not sure if this
    is generally true or not, but for me last summer when
    doing some hill work in +80+F temperatures, my achilles
    was far more flexible than it ever gets in the winter.)

    Somewhere in between, there may be optimal function without
    overheating.

    4. Metabolism. I've seen some secondary literature
    suggesting that metabolism in cold temperatures may use
    more fats. (looking for primary literature on it as well
    as some other cold weather physiology issues relevant to
    running in the cold (cold being subzero F))

    5. Eyes - need to protect from bright sun and/or cold
    temperatures. Not sure I've heard of anything about heat
    injury to eyes, other than sun related.

    6. Equipment damage - extreme heat like Badwater can cause
    some shoes to fall apart.

    Cold/heat adaptation in humans is a few dissertations.

    Pace: You might look at Running Club North in Fairbanks.
    http://www.runningclubnorth.org/rcn_4res.htm They record
    weather for many of their race results, and Fairbanks (as
    well as many interior US/Canada areas) has temperatures from
    -40F to 90F, maybe higher. Many of the Fbks races involve
    trails and/or hills and/or snowshoes so you'd have to pick
    which ones to look at. You might also look at some of Lorne
    Sundby's race reports, but might need to pay attention to
    windchill vs temperature on his. iirc, he had consecutive
    races at the two extremes - I'm thinking it was in spring
    2002 (maybe 2003). In one of his posts back then, he also
    gave an indication of how much faster he got as the weather
    warmed. I'd look, except I don't need the numbers to know
    that paces get faster, and it's much easier running in
    warmer weather - at least where I am :) My actual numbers
    are confounded by snow, dark, snowshoes, hills, and amount
    of training in summer vs winter.

    If nothing else, when reducing the number of layers being
    worn, it will reduce the dead weight you are carrying as
    move from cold (0F and below) to warmer temperatures (20F
    and above).

    But if you're just talking about pace somewhere around 80F
    vs 40F, then it's probably primarily a cooling mechanism.
    When you start dealing with temperatures like +120F vs -40F,
    the amount of oxygen in a volume of air may have an effect
    perhaps equal to a few thousand feet elevation change (check
    the formulas I posted the other day). But at 80F vs 40F I
    doubt that it's significant.

    Dot +30F is much easier (workload) than -20F because of
    fewer layers and no showshoes. That's *my* common
    knowledge :)

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
    Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  13. I tan I epi tas <thrashtheforeignguys@thermopylae.com> wrote in message news:<4vch50172q6ao34cgfcoqgooofj1rp4ngb@4ax.com>...
    > On 17 Mar 2004 11:54:46 -0800, hottbodd4u@hotmail.com
    > (Penile Dysfunction) wrote:
    >
    > >Because the CO2 in your brain gets cold, thereby
    > >reinterating the counter-integers into a cozclosmatic
    > >that becomes interfused with the hydrogen molecules,
    > >thereby producing negative antigens that inevitably lead
    > >to the inevitable. Clear enough now?
    >
    > Stupid boy.
    >
    > Everybody knows it's because the Running Pixies that make
    > your feet float over the ground only come out in when the
    > temperature is below 5C.

    I know, but mine sounded much more scientific.
     
  14. onemarathon <cam_wilson@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<cam_wilson-4AB8A3.20301317032004@news.bellglobal.com>...
    > yes, but if you run after dark, you must wear a hat made
    > of tinfoil and whistle In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida in order to keep
    > the Ice Weasles away.

    I just line the inside on my Beanie (the one with the
    propeller on top) with lead, it helps protect against Gamma
    raynoids too.
     
  15. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    amh wrote:

    > anonymous@coolgroups.com wrote in message
    > news:<4eb99831a9472be0f6a1f88da219c709@news.scbiz.com>...
    >
    >>it's common knowledge that running in cold weather
    >>is easier.
    >
    >
    > It is not easier to run in cold weather. Why would anybody
    > think that is common knowledge?

    First off what is cold -30F(I use F notation to piss off
    Roger), -10, +20, +40, +60? Don't laugh at the +60. When I
    used to take business trips to Boca in January, I would
    leave negative temps and run in shorts and a t-shirt. The
    locals would be running in sweat suits and hoods. So the
    numbers are relative to what you are used to.

    > I've found that I can adapt to hot and cold well. A few
    > others I run with disappear from November until April
    > (winter here in the Northern Hemisphere). Still others
    > hate running when the temperature goes above
    > 60.

    For those of us that experience the four seasons most of use
    either run less miles or lots less speed in the winter. In
    my local area most people tend to spend the colder months
    working on base and recovering from the fall season. The few
    races that do appear on the calendar have very slow times.
    I'll exclude the NYC boys who feel hormonally compelled to
    race all winter just about every weekend. ;)

    Personally I like a sunny 40-50 degrees and I may get one or
    two races in these temps. The rest of mine are hot and
    hotter and not because I like the heat.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
     
  16. Amh

    Amh Guest

    topcounsel@aol.com (TopCounsel) wrote in message news:<20040317144141.28401.00001655@mb-m29.aol.com>...
    > >Why would the air have significantly more or less
    > >oxygen? The percentage of oxygen in the air is pretty
    > >standard at 21%
    >
    > Hot air has less of everything than does cold air. As air
    > is heated, it expands, giving a lower concentration of
    > molecules per volume measure. So, it has less oxygen per
    > cc, less nitrogen per cc, etc., etc.

    If you're going to snip my post don't take out the most
    imprtant part.

    This is from my original post:

    Why would the air have significantly more or less oxygen?
    The percentage of oxygen in the air is pretty standard at
    21%. I'm sure temperature plays a role in the amount of
    oxygen (pv=nrt and all that stuff) but the atmosphere is so
    expansive that any change due to temperature is
    insignificant.

    The changes in the percentages of oxygen in the air at the
    same elevation do not change so much that it will affect
    athletic performance. Are you willing to say that you run
    slower in hot weather *specifically* because you weren't
    getting enough oxygen from the atmosphere?

    Go ahead prove that one.

    Andy
     
  17. Rick++

    Rick++ Guest

    > it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    > easier. why exactly is this? i know you sweat less, and
    > the air probably has more oxygen, but is there more to it?

    Its not common knowledge. It takes long for my joints and
    muscle to warm up. Not ot mention the pain of ice and snow.
     
  18. Johnny Bravo

    Johnny Bravo Guest

    On 18 Mar 2004 17:05:51 GMT, topcounsel@aol.com (TopCounsel) wrote:

    >For example, the LA Marathon was recently run at
    >95F/35C/308K, as the day dragged on (It was maybe 80
    >degrees for the first finishers?). On the other hand, our
    >friends on the east coast of the US have been running in
    >temperatures at or below freezing -- to be conservative,
    >let's say 35F/2C/275K. The difference on the Kelvin
    >(absolute) scale is about 33 degrees, or on the order of
    >33/275 = 0.12 = 12%.

    Both air temperature and humidity both affect air density,
    reducing the amount of oxygen in the air. Going from Sea
    Level at 59F to 95F is roughly the same as going from Sea
    Level to 2200 ft altitude if the humitidy remains
    constant, any increase in humidity will decrease the
    amount of gas in the air by displacing it with water vapor
    and increasing the effective altitude, most very low
    temperature conditions have very little humidity, if that
    95 degree day was very humid it could add another 1300 or
    so feet to the effective altitude, raising it to 3500 ft
    compared with running in 35F with very low humidity.

    I'd say there was a pretty large difference between running
    at 350
    feet above sea level and running at 3850 feet above sea
    level, without
    even counting the humidity and temperature effects on
    keeping cool.

    --
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the
    inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents."
    - H.P. Lovecraft
     
  19. >> it's common knowledge that running in cold weather is
    >> easier. why exactly is this? i know you sweat less,
    >> and the air probably has more oxygen, but is there
    >> more to it?

    In addition to the cooling factor Donovan mentioned, the air
    is denser, so there's more oxygen per cubic lungful.

    --
    Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing
    and proofreading

    If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston
    Churchill
     
  20. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Johnny Bravo wrote:

    >I'd say there was a pretty large difference between running
    > at 350
    > feet above sea level and running at 3850 feet above sea
    > level, without
    > even counting the humidity and temperature effects on
    > keeping cool.

    I'll politely disagree. If you discard humidity and
    temperature, effects the differences are close to zero.
    Even taking them into consideration the differences are
    very small. You need to get closer to 5,000 before you
    notice anything.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
     
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