TRAINING TO WIN! advice needed..

[kostaki112]

im a beginner cyclist who's been training for about 6 months. Im 24, 6'1 and weigh 85 kgs. iv recently hired a coach and iv been training seriously for about a month. i hope to win a race in the coming season but im unsure of where i am with the numbers ( watts, cadence etc). my cadence is at 100rpm average and i also average around 290 in watts. i guess my question is where does my power have to be if i want to win a 60-80 km race? id like to actually compete with the guys out there and not be left behind (hopefully i can find a win somewhere down the road). any feedback is much appreciated!

 

[kostaki112]

i should also mention that my aerobic base is a bit poor. i average around 140-150 bpm during power tests. my HR is at 180+ during the last quarter of a 20 minute test. hopefully the HR is lowered with repetitive training

 

[smaryka]

You're paying a coach and he/she can't answer your questions? Find another coach...

 

[RapDaddyo]

Your question is way too broad to elicit useful responses. I assume you're talking about road races. So, my immediate question is what is the nature of the courses because the aerobic and anaerobic power requirements to be in the front group are quite different for flat courses versus rolling courses versus courses with long climbs. To win a road race of this length, the first thing you have to do is to survive all of the selection surges. Regardless of your aerobic power, the anaerobic surges will drain your anaerobic work capacity and if it's not high enough you'll be watching the lead group ride off into the distance after a few surges. And, if the course includes one or more long climbs, the climbs will certainly be selection segments. At your weight, you'll need well over 300W of aerobic power because you'll have 65-70kg guys with 300W of aerobic power and they'll ride away from you on a climb so fast you'll think you have flat tires. Finally, let's say that you survive the surges and are with the lead group at the finish. I don't know about the riders where you live, but my 5sec power is about 1200W when I'm race-fit and the only way I win a group sprint is if everybody crashes.

An alternative goal for the year would be to build a good aerobic base with lots of L4 efforts and after you have a solid aerobic base do some anaerobic and neuromuscular blocks to be able to define your race-fit power-duration curve throughout the duration range. With that info, you can target events best suited to your profile.

Finally, go to some of the events you hope to win and try to find a rider who was in the lead group at the finish and who is about your weight. If he rides with a power meter, ask him if he'll send you his ride file so you can see what it takes to be with the lead group. Some may refuse, but I'm guessing that most riders will be willing to do that (I would).

 

[kostaki112]

yeah iv been looking into the power to weight ratio thing. been thinking thinking about losing 10 lbs but not anything more than that (too skinny for me). the roads around my area are mostly flat.the climbs are 2km or less and are not very steep. the goal youve suggested is actually the kind of program im on atm..i ride 3 intense,1 hour rides with 3-5 sets of varying RPE's and times. 1 form ride (isolated pedaling) and 2, 2-3 hour endurance rides.

power to weight really comes into play but im simply not willing to cut down to 70 kgs. i figure if i can blast through the flats at a consistently high power with a few high intensity accelerations, i might be able to place well, as the climbs are not that difficult. thanks for the reply!

 

[kostaki112]

Originally Posted by smaryka
You're paying a coach and he/she can't answer your questions? Find another coach...

its okay to search for a common consensus in anything that you do. it's not only okay, its the wise thing to do. understand big boy?

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by kostaki112
its okay to search for a common consensus in anything that you do. it's not only okay, its the wise thing to do. understand big boy?

smaryka is a female that has competed in cycling for a long time and has a great deal of knowledge on training and racing in cycling. Maybe you thought her post was being snarky, but what she asked was the first thing I thought as well.

 

[Volnix]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

smaryka is a female that has competed in cycling for a long time and has a great deal of knowledge on training and racing in cycling. Maybe you thought her post was being snarky, but what she asked was the first thing I thought as well.

Le me reporting some cyber-bullying on my fine-@ss laptop.

Bullies be like "Thread does not exist - Fffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu"

Problem cyber-bullying Fags?

 

[jhuskey]

Originally Posted by Volnix


Le me reporting some cyber-bullying on my fine-@ss laptop.

Bullies be like "Thread does not exist - Fffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu"

Problem cyber-bullying Fags?

Sorry V but I don't perceive this as bullying. That being stated I do appreciate your help in reporting spam and other issues. Could the reply post have been crafted better with more a more helpful approach? Yes.

 

[Felt_Rider]

So am I the one that is being called out as the cyber bully? I wasn't sure since it was my post being quoted.

 

[smaryka]

No, it's probably me. But I think RapDaddyo said it better than me anyway...


Quote:
Originally Posted by RapDaddyo .
Your question is way too broad to elicit useful responses.


Powermeter numbers don't win races, legs and heart and head do. So while it's possible to give you wide-ranging (i.e., not very useful) estimates of what power you need to "win" a race, it's better if you just train a bit and then go out and start racing and you'll learn it for yourself.

You're paying a coach, presumably that coach knows something about cycling and racing and wattage....? So what does he/she think? Why do you think experienced cyclists/racers on internet forums would give you different or better answers for free? We don't know you, we don't know what kind of races you'll do, the terrain, the competition etc.

If you really want to know, then take some time to browse this and other forums, as probably any question you can think to ask will have been asked (again and again). Don't take offense if regular readers and posters don't feel like writing a long reply when they've done it lots of times before. Inform yourself then come back and ask specific and thoughtful questions, rather than asking something the equivalent of "how long is a piece of string" in your very first post.

 

[Volnix]

Originally Posted by jhuskey
Could the reply post have been crafted better with more a more helpful approach? Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kostaki112 .
its okay to search for a common consensus in anything that you do. it's not only okay, its the wise thing to do. understand big boy?

Originally Posted by smaryka
No, it's probably me. But I think RapDaddyo said it better than me anyway...

Actually it was the above "one hit wonder" but...

You just cut in line didn't you?

 

[pedalbiker]

Originally Posted by kostaki112
im a beginner cyclist who's been training for about 6 months. Im 24, 6'1 and weigh 85 kgs. iv recently hired a coach and iv been training seriously for about a month. i hope to win a race in the coming season but im unsure of where i am with the numbers ( watts, cadence etc). my cadence is at 100rpm average and i also average around 290 in watts. i guess my question is where does my power have to be if i want to win a 60-80 km race? id like to actually compete with the guys out there and not be left behind (hopefully i can find a win somewhere down the road). any feedback is much appreciated!

Racing isn't about being able to put out the most watts, it's about minimizing your efforts in order to maximize your strengths when it matters most.

Your ftp isn't that high, your watts/kg is even lower, but whether or not that will have anything to do with anything is anyone's guess. If you have to continually make supra-threshold surges and your threshold is too low to allow you to properly recover in time for the next surge, then you might get dropped before even being able to contest the sprint. If you can't hold a wheel or take a decent line in a corner so you're constantly having to sprint back on, you might be too dead to sprint even if you do make it to the finish.

There are dozens of different variables to come into play. If you want to race well, I'd do a group ride at least every weekend building up to race season with as high a quality group as I can find. Learning how to sit in, hold on, hold a line, hide out and move up in a pack are absolutely invaluable and can often times make a bigger difference in a race and result than your actual fitness.

Racing is a skill unless you're just ungodly stronger than everyone else, and your numbers don't indicate that that's the case, so I'd work on those skill parts as much as possible.

 

[pedalbiker]

Originally Posted by kostaki112
i should also mention that my aerobic base is a bit poor. i average around 140-150 bpm during power tests. my HR is at 180+ during the last quarter of a 20 minute test. hopefully the HR is lowered with repetitive training

HR really doesn't matter that much. If you have power, then I wouldn't even bother with it. It can be more deceptive than beneficial if you don't understand what it's telling you.

 

[cyclightning]

To add to this, in a road race you have cyclists out front and those in the back.. if you follow carefully you can save enough energy for a finish sprint or breakaway. Surges by a group of strong cyclists is a typical tactic to form a breakaway, but it usually requires at least a few strong cyclists who also work well together (do their turn, follow at close distance) which is fairly rare.

 

[Avocadogirl]

Winning is not always going to happen no matter how well you train. Most of it depends on your dedication, your abilities, your strategy, and most importantly, your opponents. The only kne of these that you cannot control to some extent is your opponents. Because of this, I recommend doing your best but being careful not to get upset if you do not win. Competition is great to a certain extent; being a sore loser is not.

 

[bgoetz]

You have never raced before, so you have no clue what to expect. Even a good coach would be hard pressed to describe to you what to expect and give you nearly the same level of understanding as doing the real thing. Get some races under your belt and you will have a far better understanding of the answer your really looking for. Good luck and enjoy the ride!!

 

[An old Guy]

im a beginner cyclist who's been training for about 6 months. Im 24, 6'1 and weigh 85 kgs. iv recently hired a coach and iv been training seriously for about a month. i hope to win a race in the coming season but im unsure of where i am with the numbers ( watts, cadence etc). my cadence is at 100rpm average and i also average around 290 in watts. i guess my question is where does my power have to be if i want to win a 60-80 km race? id like to actually compete with the guys out there and not be left behind (hopefully i can find a win somewhere down the road). any feedback is much handle appreciated!

If you are in the US, you will be racing Cat5. You get an upgrade for finishing not for placing. The intent is that you spend your race time learning to handle yourself in a race.

But if you want to compete and not be left behind ---

You should spend some time making friends during your races. Help others. Do a lot of hard work before asking others to work for you.

After a while when you show up for races, people will seek you out and offer to work with you. That is always good.

 

[swampy1970]

Go and race. Your first goal is to learn how to ride in a bunch while you're going harder than you planned. Second goal is to arrive at the finish without leaving skin on the road and bones intact. When you have those mastered, get up near the front and see if your legs can back up your goals. Without trying, you'll have no markers to base your training on. Numbers are useful (watts for a given interval) but you need race smarts too.

Smaryka hit the nail on the head. Not only should your coach have all the answers but they should be able to hook you up with some folk to help you with fun things like cornering at warp speed without crapping your shorts or *****ing like a liberal if someone leans on you mid-corner.