Wheelsuckers....tactical or 'other'



teamgomez

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Aug 23, 2005
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Half rant/half question: So the guy who wins the local season opener 3 race series (Feb thru Apr) is content with letting everybody else do the work for an hour so he can attack in the last km (1 hour around a 4 mile hilly circuit). WTFO? What separates a dirtbag wheelsucking a$$bag from a masterful tactician?
 
Perspective, if you are him or his team mate you are a genius. If you are the guy that pulled his sorry a** for miles he is a lazy scumbag.
 
teamgomez said:
What separates a dirtbag wheelsucking a$$bag from a masterful tactician?

Nothing except the fact that the "masterful tactician" wins and the dirtbag wheelsucker doesn't.

It's the dumb a$$bags that drag him around that you should feel sorry for...
 
teamgomez said:
What separates a dirtbag wheelsucking a$$bag from a masterful tactician?

The tactician does it when there's money on the line and the dirtbag does it to show off on training rides.
 
frenchyge said:
The tactician does it when there's money on the line and the dirtbag does it to show off on training rides.

LOL! Nicely put.

I also read the thread mentioned by tonyzackery previously to posting my query. I've seen both camps here (sprinters who will suck wheel with the best of 'em to live long enough to see the finish line then dominating, as well as racers who do their fair share in pursuit of the glory).

I guess the 'chump' factor comes in b/c somebody who isn't good enough to put an entire game package together gets to enjoy the fruits of victory (web photo for the local club website?) using ill-regarded tactics (in my book). This is borne from a life training to survive long enough to get fused ordnance on target. The a$$bag who didn't pull his fair share/hang his own 6 out like the rest of us but drops one down the smokestack or gets a lucky bandit off target and flies back to the ship for his victory roll will soon find his belongings drifting in the wake. Keep it up and his own behind will join his goodies aft of the ship.

It seems to me that a peloton has to work together as much as each individual needs to look out for number one, hence a notion that it is as much as a 'team' effort as it is a dogfight in the endgame. While there's no honor among thieves, I regard the peloton at least one rung up on the social ladder, no???

Build a hundred bridges, and you're a bridgebuilder. But suck one wheel, and you're a wheelsucker...

And yes- if I was strong enough to pull the little ba$tard and still win, I wouldn't be griping, now would I?
 
teamgomez said:
LOL! Nicely put.
I guess the 'chump' factor comes in b/c somebody who isn't good enough to put an entire game package together gets to enjoy the fruits of victory (web photo for the local club website?) using ill-regarded tactics (in my book). This is borne from a life training to survive long enough to get fused ordnance on target.

The guy who can sprint but keeps it together long enough to unleash that sprint has mastered 'his package'.

It don't matter how you get across the line first as long as you get across the line first.

You're talking about club racing. Forget any notions of valour, teams working together to get rid of wheel suckers and the like.

teamgomez said:
The a$$bag who didn't pull his fair share/hang his own 6 out like the rest of us but drops one down the smokestack or gets a lucky bandit off target and flies back to the ship for his victory roll will soon find his belongings drifting in the wake. Keep it up and his own behind will join his goodies aft of the ship.

It seems to me that a peloton has to work together as much as each individual needs to look out for number one, hence a notion that it is as much as a 'team' effort as it is a dogfight in the endgame. While there's no honor among thieves, I regard the peloton at least one rung up on the social ladder, no???

Build a hundred bridges, and you're a bridgebuilder. But suck one wheel, and you're a wheelsucker...

And yes- if I was strong enough to pull the little ba$tard and still win, I wouldn't be griping, now would I?

Again, club racing. Peloton? There may be some pecking order in your team but that's all you'll get.

The idea is to drop the wheel sucker somewhere out on course...

Why don't ya just sit on his wheel? He's obviously got a knack for spotting the moves in your series. Let him chase the breaks. The question is then, do you have the nerve to sit on his wheel and hope he goes? If you can't beat him playing your game, play him at his.
 
teamgomez said:
LOL! Nicely put.

I also read the thread mentioned by tonyzackery previously to posting my query. I've seen both camps here (sprinters who will suck wheel with the best of 'em to live long enough to see the finish line then dominating, as well as racers who do their fair share in pursuit of the glory).

You read that thread beforehand and still needed to pose this "wheelsucking" issue???:confused:

It's simple - play, or be played. Take your pick. If you are in a race, there is only one(1) winner - I know, brilliant discovery. Everyone doesn't get to cross the finish line in accordance with how much work they did in the peloton - doesn't work that way. The racer with the most left at the end usually wins.

I'm curious - are you in the peloton to win, or are you there simply to enjoy the other guys' company? I gotta ask b/c I'm not following your approach to cycle "racing". If you're not really there to win the race, there's nothing really to complain about IMO. If you're just out for some exercise, I'm not understanding what the problem is. Are you upset b/c you think the winner showed the rest of you up by sprinting away? Do you truly believe that the strongest cyclist/person who takes the most pulls/etc. wins every race? Or even most of them?

I'm obviously very confused by this "issue".:confused: I'm a little slow, so help me out if you don't mind...:D
 
teamgomez said:
..This is borne from a life training to survive long enough to get fused ordnance on target. ...flies back to the ship for his victory roll will soon find his belongings drifting in the wake....

It seems to me that a peloton has to work together as much as each individual needs to look out for number one...

First the peloton owes you nothing. It is your team that needs to have a plan to put a guy/gal across the line first. Drop the weak, attack attack attack, don't let somebody faster then you in the sprint have legs left to take you.

Second, are you sure you are a Naval Aviator? ;) I spent 4 years in a F-14 squadron on and off a few carriers. Those guys contested everything. From who had the better looking wife or faster car to who caught the most 3-wires. If you bounced a hook and had to take another go round at it you better be ready for some $hit in the ready room when you finally did get it back on deck. And those guys were on the same TEAM. The **** between different squadrons was even worse. Point is I would expect a highly trained, very smart, bright guy like you to be one of the best race tacticians around. Do whatever it takes. There is no fare share of work or greater good in racing. Training and group rides is another story.

Know you strengths and weaknesses and race to them.

Ride away from the group if you can. Drop them on a climb if you can. Sit on wheels till the sprint if you can. If you can't do any of that you gotta train more.

Oh and don't forget. Next time you have a port call in Italy get fitted for a custom steel frame and buy all the campy parts you can :cool:

Good luck in the next race.
 
rplace13 said:
Do whatever it takes. There is no fare share of work or greater good in racing. Training and group rides is another story.

Yep. If you want to use military metaphors, the winner is the one who puts steel on target -- skillful shots, lucky shots and sneaky shots all score the same. All the niceties like flying straight and level in formation or taking long, smooth pulls on the front for no reason don't count for anything in competition.

"You race like you train" is about as far from the truth as "you fight like you train", despite what your military superiors would like you to believe. :cool:
 
No ******* ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ******* die for his country.


George Patton

I think the same philosophy applies here.
 
Good points, fellas...looks like I need to cage the gyro a bit...and get faster (duh). I think Frenchyge nailed it-

frenchyge said:
"You race like you train" is about as far from the truth as "you fight like you train", despite what your military superiors would like you to believe. :cool:

rplace13- "Ride away from the group if you can. Drop them on a climb if you can. Sit on wheels till the sprint if you can. If you can't do any of that you gotta train more." Wilco.

I'm gonna be glued to that little $hit next time we go at it and crawl inside his grape for a race...we'll see what I learn.

In the meantime, I've got this little problem of reeling myself back and learning when I've got enough in the tank to put forth a charge that will last and not end up in a crumpled mass of slow-twitch muscle fibers...yeah, I know, join the crowd.

Just how in the heck do you hit somebody half as hard as you train to? Oh yeah, Frenchyge already nailed that one...

Thanks guys!
 
Like it or not, wheelsucking is a legitimate tactic.

Just drop him, Fabian style.
 
Tactics talk! My favorite :D

For the OP, I have a question...you said this one rider is content to sit in for almost all the race and then go kite with 1km...

Question: How many people are in this group? Is it a small breakaway? The main peloton?

I know if there's oh, more than 7-8 riders or so, that I'm avoiding at the front. If they form some sort of echelon or rotating paceline then I'll miss turns or slow things if I get forced to be up front. Now less than that number in a breakaway and then I'll do just enough to keep things going, but not one bit more...

I'm pretty green at this but I look at the whole endeavor as expending the least amount of energy & whenever I do expend energy, asking myself if/how doing so is helping my chances for a good result. I'm certainly not pulling the pack along or feel any need to show strength or whatever. In fact, the more I can hide or ride unimpressively, until crunch time, the better.
 
If someone complained to me about sucking wheels, not doing my fair share of the pulls or any other tactic for that matter, my response would simply be, "I am riding this race in a way to give me the best chance to win - you decide how you want to deal with it. You ride in a way that gives you the best chance to win and I will decide on how best to deal with that".

I'm not an expert by any means but this guy is doing what he needs to win. Knowing he has a strong last KM and sprint, if you want to win, you have to take that out of him by tiring him out or dropping him. If you can't do that, he is likely to win more races than you.
 
Oh and don't forget. Next time you have a port call in Italy get fitted for a custom steel frame and buy all the campy parts you can :cool:

excellent! love that suggestion!

Personally. From my racing experience. Wheel suckers aren't highly regarded within the group. But it does work! Had a 2nd place handed to me once by a wheelsucker. My fault/team's fault that we didn't drop him like others have posted! ******* got me on the last turn. Live and learn.
 
Great thoughts, gang. I'm giong to have to get savvy on 'how to drop a wheelsucker'...seems to be more difficult than getting a sticky booger off your finger. By nature, this dude is going to glom on to your wheel and you're going to have to work 30% harder to pull away, right? I'll admit my game isn't there for somebody 25 years my junior.

Seems it can't be possible w/o a coordinated team effort- is there a Cliff's Notes version on "How to Drop a Wheelsucker"? My first thought probably not an acceptable alternative....
 
There are ways, but IMO you're not dealing with a true wheelsucker. The person you mentioned was strong enough to blast out of the pack at 1km to go on a hilly circuit and stayed away to the finish. That's a strong *and cagey* move and he flat ate everyone's lunch in that race -- much harder to get rid of someone like that than a true wheelsucker who lacks the strength to work at the front.

For the guy you're dealing with, all you can do is stay off the front to conserve energy and hope you're strong enough to suck *his* wheel to the line when he lights the fuse.
 
speaking of wheelsuckers I just had one today...a guy from A&M just hangs on my wheel and refused to do any work. When I slowed down, he slowed down, etc. In the final km my legs cramp up and he drops me like a rock! Guess it's my fault for not dropping him...it's one of those awkward moments where you have a rider who's just a tad bit lower in ability than you and can still hang on...