why do restaurant steaks have "that taste"?



"dakota2112" writes:
>
>I've searched through this forum but I'm not able to find a conclusive
>answer.
>
>Let me explain. Firstly, I'm very picky about my steaks. In fact, I
>very rarely order a steak at a restaurant, because frankly they never
>hold a candle to the steaks I grill at home. Of course I'm not talking
>about what some people consider "real" steakhouses, I'm talking about
>the standard places like Outback, Lone Star, et al.


The vast majority of steaks consumed at home in the US have been previously
frozen... bought on sale, popped into the home freezer, and consumed at some
later date (not really a sale if you freeze them). Steak served at restaurants
are typically never previously frozen. Even a steak of lower grade will taste
better when it's not been frozen. In fact it's kind of really dumb to stock up
a freezer with relatively expensive tender cuts of beef... when defrosted they
lose most of their juices and their texture suffers greatly, a waste of money.
In the US most are conditioned to eating previously frozen meat both at home
and at fast food joints... so anytime they eat meat out, even at a chain joint,
they are pleasantly suprized by the flavor even though the meat is not so high
a grade and may even be a little tough, just that it's not been frozen.
Freezing tender cuts of beef is tantamont to freezing fresh seafood... DUMB...
only worse, because in the US fresh beef is available everywhere/anytime but
fresh seafood is not so simple to come by as one lives further inland. When I
want steak I go to the market that day and buy it... in the USofA I can buy
porterhouse 24/7... good steak is almost never on sale, because if it's on sale
it's not so good a quality, so it's just silly to stock up on all counts. Save
your freezer space for shoulder and butt cuts.




---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````
 
"Dimitri" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:a3%[email protected]...
>
> "dakota2112" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've searched through this forum but I'm not able to find a conclusive
> > answer.
> >
> > Let me explain. Firstly, I'm very picky about my steaks. In fact, I
> > very rarely order a steak at a restaurant, because frankly they never
> > hold a candle to the steaks I grill at home. Of course I'm not talking
> > about what some people consider "real" steakhouses, I'm talking about
> > the standard places like Outback, Lone Star, et al.
>
> <snip>
>
> I would suggest you pick up a copy of the January 05 issue of Fine Cooking
> Magazine (page 78) and read the section on Dry aging beef at home.
>
> I suspect their technique will yield the taste you have been looking for.
>
> Dimitri
>
...even if the beef didn't come from Sysco???

pavane
 
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 01:39:48 GMT, "pavane" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Do you know what the hell you are saying?

Dimitri is an excellent and respected cook, and a friend to basically
everyone but you. Now, go change your diaper and get outta here.

Carol
--
"There's things about me you don't know, Dottie.
Things you wouldn't understand. Things you couldn't
understand. Things you shouldn't understand.... I'm
a loner, Dottie. A rebel"

*Paul Reubens* in the 1985 movie, _Pee Wee's Big Adventure_
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 03:47:34 -0600, Katra <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Like Brining???
> >Is it possible to brine meats other than poultry and get a good result?
> >I've never tried it, so I don't know a lot about it.
>
> I brine pork all the time. I have a lovely brine using bitter orange juice
> and chipotle powder that imparts a wonderful flavour to those center cut
> pork chops one can find on sale. I hate dry pork more than pretty much
> anything.
>
> I believe you could call corned beef "brined" on a technical level, but
> most of the people I've spoken to about brining agree you can't really
> brine beef.
>
> You can brine fish (you have to be really careful with fish and not
> over-brine it), pork, and poultry that I know about. I imagine you could do
> more exotic meats, as well. Hmmmm brined ostrich... I should try that.

Or brined emu. ;-)
Ratite meat is red like beef tho', so I doubt it'd work.

Thanks for the input!
I guess that marinating is not a lot different than brining if you use
any high-salt ingredients. I tend to use salad dressings and those are
not exactly low in sodium.

It's wonderful for pork, but for beef, I tend to use low salt soy or
teryaki bases marinades.

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:09:50 +0000 (UTC), [email protected]
> wrote:
>
> >In rec.food.cooking, Siobhan Perricone <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I brine pork all the time. I have a lovely brine using bitter orange juice
> >> and chipotle powder that imparts a wonderful flavour to those center cut
> >> pork chops one can find on sale. I hate dry pork more than pretty much
> >> anything.
> >
> >Please post more details. I've brined pork chops, and I liked the
> >result. However, I just used a generic brine.
>
> The brine I use is from Alton Brown's I'm Just Here For the Food
>
> His recipe makes one gallon, I have noted in the book the quantities for
> half gallon and quart as well, so I can do just a couple of chops in half
> an hour if I want. :)
>
> Here's his version, keep in mind that this is for a large piece of meat,
> like a turkey:
>
> Orange Brine
> 1 quart vegetable stock, chilled
> 1/2 cup kosher salt
> 1/4 cup dark brown sugar
> 1 teaspoon black peppercorns
> 2 bay leaves
> 1 quart orange juice chilled
> 2 quarts ice water
>
> In a pot bring two cups of stock, salt, brown sugar, peppercorns, and bay
> leaves just to a boil. Stir to dissolve sugar and salt. Add remaining
> stock, orange juice and 2 quarts ice water. Pour into a two gallon bucket.
> When the mixture is cooled to below 40 degrees F, add the meat in a cool
> place (to maintain a sub-40 degrees F temp). Let it brine for at least 8
> hours and up to 48. Remove the meat from the brine, pat dry with paper
> towels then cook as desired.
>
> I use bitter orange juice instead of sweet. And I'll half or quarter this
> for pork chops or a smaller game bird. And if I'm doing smaller cuts of
> meat, brining for around an hour is PLENTY. You don't need to get the
> temperature down as much or be as concerned about that part when you're
> only brining for an hour.
>
> This recipe has never failed me. :)

Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???

For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a higher solt
marinade prior to drying/making jerky.

Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???
--
K.
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:24:07 -0600, Katra <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
>what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???
>
>For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a higher solt
>marinade prior to drying/making jerky.
>
>Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???

Don't quote me on this, but I think that brining generally involves soaking
the meat in a salty solution which soaks into the meat, and that marinating
just adds exterior flavor.

Carol
--
"Years ago my mother used to say to me... She'd say,
'In this world Elwood, you must be oh-so smart or oh-so pleasant.'
Well, for years I was smart.... I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

*James Stewart* in the 1950 movie, _Harvey_
 
"Damsel in dis Dress" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 01:39:48 GMT, "pavane" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Do you know what the hell you are saying?
>
> Dimitri is an excellent and respected cook, and a friend to basically
> everyone but you. Now, go change your diaper and get outta here.
>
> Carol

Hate to interfere with your affair, but
1) excellent by what standard?
2) respected by whom?
3) why doesn't he say intelligent things?
4) friendly? gee, sorry, hate to criticize your "friend."
5) sorry again, diapers are not in this discussion, unless
you can't argue without invoking them. Do you associate
Dimitri and changing diapers?

pavane
 
If you are willing to split an order, there may be a meat purveyor in your
area that will sell aged beef will-call.
I mentioned before the door-to-door sales of days gone by only to point out
their main pitch... the aged beef is where restaurants get that flavor. I
am sure those outfits have moved to internet sales, but the handling and
storage of beef is pretty touchy, especially when you have a considerable
investment at "steak". Being such a perishable product, I would work with a
supplier in the local area. They may even sell aged beef steaks cut
pre-portioned. It is not unheard of to simply ask to speak to the chef of
your favorite restaurant and ask directly who supplies their beef. Primal
cuts are not exactly refrigerator size pieces. But again, your local market
may even butcher for you, for a fee. It sort of depends exactly how much
you are will to go through to have on-hand at home.

As far as the flavor checks but the texture doesn't... in my opinion, a
perfectly done steak has a life of about 4 minutes. After it begins to cool
(and also carry-over cooking) a steak begins to dry and lose its perfection
rapidly. Your steaks grilled at home are more likely plated and sitting
before you within that time. In a restaurant it is less likely, even if it
was kept under warming lamps. Meat is usually the last item plated. A
perfect steak just doesn't hold.

"Me" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1104443936.bcc7b39b1e13b31c2313ac96189ab4e0@teranews...
> It's the aging. Prime meat will get you nice marbling and stuff like that,
> but the taste that you're speaking of is from the dry aging that good
> restaurants do. Note that you really have to age the primal or subprimal,
> not individually cut steaks.
>
> Alton Brown does a nice discussion of how to age your meats at home on one
> of the "Good Eats" shows. It's one of the "Juicy Meats" series -- the one
> where he makes a beef roast.
>
>
> "dakota2112" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> I've searched through this forum but I'm not able to find a conclusive
> answer.
>
> Let me explain. Firstly, I'm very picky about my steaks. In fact, I
> very rarely order a steak at a restaurant, because frankly they never
> hold a candle to the steaks I grill at home. Of course I'm not talking
> about what some people consider "real" steakhouses, I'm talking about
> the standard places like Outback, Lone Star, et al.
>
> I grill my steaks in a very particular way, with the end result being a
> charred outside and VERY pink & juicy inside, and I prefer my grilled
> steaks over the aforementioned restaurant steaks hands down in just
> about every category (doneness, juiciness, consistency, overall taste,
> etc). I can go into more detail about how I cook my steaks if
> necessary, but to save space, I'll hold off for now.
>
> HOWEVER...
>
> The one thing I have yet to figure out is, how do they get a restaurant
> steak to have "that taste"? I hope you know what I'm talking about.
> There is some particular kind of flavor that is present in almost any
> restaurant steak, regardless of where you get it or how you ordered it.
> It even has its own aroma. I will admit, I like that aspect of
> restaurant steaks. But unfortunately, it almost always comes down to a
> great aroma and that great initial taste, followed by the meat turning
> into a chewy, tasteless wad of rubber once you begin to chew.
>
> I'd like to add "that taste" to my grilled steak at home, since "that
> taste" is the one and only thing that's missing. I've tried, but I
> cannot reproduce it. I've used a hot cast iron skillet, I've tried
> numerous seasonings, liquid smoke, etc, and none of it produces that
> restaurant flavor. Some people say you have to use meat from a
> butcher, but I say noway, because those restaurant steaks having "that
> taste" usually have very poor texture and consistency. If butcher meat
> yields "that taste" + poor texture and consistency, then I'd rather
> continue with what I use (typically custom cut at Krogers, 1.5-2.0"
> thick). Other people say you have to cook it using methods ABC, or
> XYZ, or ABX, or AYZ, or XBC, or some other very subjective combination.
>
> Your comments please? Does anyone *know* for sure what specific
> spice, procedure, etc. is needed to produce "that taste"?
> Thanks in advance!
>
>
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Damsel in dis Dress <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:24:07 -0600, Katra <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
> >what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???
> >
> >For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a higher solt
> >marinade prior to drying/making jerky.
> >
> >Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???
>
> Don't quote me on this, but I think that brining generally involves soaking
> the meat in a salty solution which soaks into the meat, and that marinating
> just adds exterior flavor.
>
> Carol

Ok, but a lot of the brine recipes people are posting are adding things
other than salt. ;-)

That's why I asked.

Thanks!
--
K.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote:

> "Halvdan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > This was an organic turkey. I used a 1 gallon of liquid to 1 cup of
> > salt. The meat was actually quite tender and not mushy. I've brined
> > other turkeys for varying amounts of time and have had some good
> > results. I brined a breast for about 4 hours in orange juice and salt,
> > that worked rather well. I've read that with fronzen or fresh turkeys
> > the ratio for an over night brining should be about 1/2 cup to one
> > gallon, I let my first turkey stay in a while longer since it was a
> > free range turkey. It's worth experimenting, at sometime I hope to
> > cure a turkey and hot smoke it.
> >
> >
>
> Was that whole gallon vinegar? That's what I envisioned based on the
> wording of your post. If it was diluted, that's another matter.
>
> The best chicken brine I've ever found is Vietnamese nuoc cham sauce,
> made from nuoc mam, garlic, sugar, chiles, water and lime juice. I
> usually give it 36-48 hours and then grill it over charcoal and some
> apple wood. The nuoc mam provides all of the necessary salt and the lime
> juice tenderizes the meat through acidity.

Ok, and I repeat my question from another thread...

Is this really "brining" or "marinating"???

The poultry marinades I use for BBQ'ing tend to be high in salt due to
their nature, and yes, the chicken IS always more tender and juicy.

Hmmmmmm.......
--
K.
 
Katra wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Damsel in dis Dress <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:24:07 -0600, Katra
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
>>> what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???
>>>
>>> For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a
>>> higher solt marinade prior to drying/making jerky.
>>>
>>> Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???
>>
>> Don't quote me on this, but I think that brining generally
>> involves soaking the meat in a salty solution which soaks into
>> the meat, and that marinating just adds exterior flavor.
>>
>> Carol
>
> Ok, but a lot of the brine recipes people are posting are adding
> things other than salt. ;-)
>
> That's why I asked.
>
> Thanks!
> --
> K.

By definition, a brine *must* have salt.
Brines usually don't have oils in them because oil will interfere with the
osmotic process.
Brines generally don't have as strong acid content as marinades can have.
Marinating is usually done for a much shorter time since you aren't
relying on the osmotic action to take the liquid (and other flavorings)
into the cell structure of the meats.
Brining is done to add moisture *inside* the cellular structure of the
meat.

They are used similarly to add flavoring to the mass produced, lower fat
content meats/fowl that are generally available today.

If you are raising your own chickens, I wouldn't bother with either unless
you just wanted to try it to see what the taste would be like.

BOB
all of the above is strictly from memory, without looking up anything 'cuz
I understand it in my own mind and I don't feel like looking it all up but
if you want more information on brining I'll find some websites that have
much more information than you would ever want to know
 
Katra clucked:

> and yes, the chicken IS always more tender and juicy.
>
> Hmmmmmm.......


Isn't that *always* how Mr. Chicken prefers Ms.Chicken...???

;---p

--
Best
Greg.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
" BOB" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Katra wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > Damsel in dis Dress <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:24:07 -0600, Katra
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
> >>> what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???
> >>>
> >>> For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a
> >>> higher solt marinade prior to drying/making jerky.
> >>>
> >>> Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???
> >>
> >> Don't quote me on this, but I think that brining generally
> >> involves soaking the meat in a salty solution which soaks into
> >> the meat, and that marinating just adds exterior flavor.
> >>
> >> Carol
> >
> > Ok, but a lot of the brine recipes people are posting are adding
> > things other than salt. ;-)
> >
> > That's why I asked.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > --
> > K.
>
> By definition, a brine *must* have salt.
> Brines usually don't have oils in them because oil will interfere with the
> osmotic process.
> Brines generally don't have as strong acid content as marinades can have.
> Marinating is usually done for a much shorter time since you aren't
> relying on the osmotic action to take the liquid (and other flavorings)
> into the cell structure of the meats.
> Brining is done to add moisture *inside* the cellular structure of the
> meat.
>
> They are used similarly to add flavoring to the mass produced, lower fat
> content meats/fowl that are generally available today.
>
> If you are raising your own chickens, I wouldn't bother with either unless
> you just wanted to try it to see what the taste would be like.
>
> BOB
> all of the above is strictly from memory, without looking up anything 'cuz
> I understand it in my own mind and I don't feel like looking it all up but
> if you want more information on brining I'll find some websites that have
> much more information than you would ever want to know
>
>

That's ok. :)
It just looked like it was getting to be a bit of a gray area here from
the recipes being posted!

I don't always use olive oil in my marinades, and I like to plan ahead
and soak stuff overnight when I do.

Thanks!!!
--
K.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
> Katra clucked:
>
> > and yes, the chicken IS always more tender and juicy.
> >
> > Hmmmmmm.......
>
>
> Isn't that *always* how Mr. Chicken prefers Ms.Chicken...???
>
> ;---p
>
> --
> Best
> Greg.

I dunno, let's ask Sheldon!!!
--
K.
 
Katra wrote:
> " BOB" wrote:
>> Katra wrote:
>>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>>> MungBean wrote:
>>>>> Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
>>>>> what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a
>>>>> higher solt marinade prior to drying/making jerky.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???
>>>>
>>>> Don't quote me on this, but I think that brining generally
>>>> involves soaking the meat in a salty solution which soaks into
>>>> the meat, and that marinating just adds exterior flavor.
>>>>
>>>> Carol
>>>
>>> Ok, but a lot of the brine recipes people are posting are adding
>>> things other than salt. ;-)
>>>
>>> That's why I asked.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> --
>>> K.
>>
>> By definition, a brine *must* have salt.
>> Brines usually don't have oils in them because oil will interfere
>> with the osmotic process.
>> Brines generally don't have as strong acid content as marinades
>> can have. Marinating is usually done for a much shorter time
>> since you aren't relying on the osmotic action to take the liquid
>> (and other flavorings) into the cell structure of the meats.
>> Brining is done to add moisture *inside* the cellular structure
>> of the meat.
>>
>> They are used similarly to add flavoring to the mass produced,
>> lower fat content meats/fowl that are generally available today.
>>
>> If you are raising your own chickens, I wouldn't bother with
>> either unless you just wanted to try it to see what the taste
>> would be like.
>>
>> BOB
>> all of the above is strictly from memory, without looking up
>> anything 'cuz I understand it in my own mind and I don't feel
>> like looking it all up but if you want more information on
>> brining I'll find some websites that have much more information
>> than you would ever want to know
>>
>>
>
> That's ok. :)
> It just looked like it was getting to be a bit of a gray area here
> from the recipes being posted!
>
> I don't always use olive oil in my marinades, and I like to plan
> ahead and soak stuff overnight when I do.
>
> Thanks!!!
> --
> K.

Found a simple one. Scroll down to Chapter 2 for the quick-and-easy
answer to your question.

http://www.cookshack.com/barbeque_guide/101/Brining101.htm#_Toc528293321

BOB
 
In article <[email protected]>,
" BOB" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Katra wrote:
> > " BOB" wrote:
> >> Katra wrote:
> >>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> >>>> MungBean wrote:
> >>>>> Ok...... it sounds wonderful, but this makes me wonder,
> >>>>> what is the difference between a brine and a marinade???
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For instance, I "marinate" beef, venison or emu strips in a
> >>>>> higher solt marinade prior to drying/making jerky.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does this mean I am brining it as opposed to marinating it???
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't quote me on this, but I think that brining generally
> >>>> involves soaking the meat in a salty solution which soaks into
> >>>> the meat, and that marinating just adds exterior flavor.
> >>>>
> >>>> Carol
> >>>
> >>> Ok, but a lot of the brine recipes people are posting are adding
> >>> things other than salt. ;-)
> >>>
> >>> That's why I asked.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> --
> >>> K.
> >>
> >> By definition, a brine *must* have salt.
> >> Brines usually don't have oils in them because oil will interfere
> >> with the osmotic process.
> >> Brines generally don't have as strong acid content as marinades
> >> can have. Marinating is usually done for a much shorter time
> >> since you aren't relying on the osmotic action to take the liquid
> >> (and other flavorings) into the cell structure of the meats.
> >> Brining is done to add moisture *inside* the cellular structure
> >> of the meat.
> >>
> >> They are used similarly to add flavoring to the mass produced,
> >> lower fat content meats/fowl that are generally available today.
> >>
> >> If you are raising your own chickens, I wouldn't bother with
> >> either unless you just wanted to try it to see what the taste
> >> would be like.
> >>
> >> BOB
> >> all of the above is strictly from memory, without looking up
> >> anything 'cuz I understand it in my own mind and I don't feel
> >> like looking it all up but if you want more information on
> >> brining I'll find some websites that have much more information
> >> than you would ever want to know
> >>
> >>
> >
> > That's ok. :)
> > It just looked like it was getting to be a bit of a gray area here
> > from the recipes being posted!
> >
> > I don't always use olive oil in my marinades, and I like to plan
> > ahead and soak stuff overnight when I do.
> >
> > Thanks!!!
> > --
> > K.
>
> Found a simple one. Scroll down to Chapter 2 for the quick-and-easy
> answer to your question.
>
> http://www.cookshack.com/barbeque_guide/101/Brining101.htm#_Toc528293321
>
> BOB
>
>

Cool, I bookmarked that page thank you!
I have yet to ever actually try brining, but it's on my list of things
to try.

This did answer nicely:

Chapter 2 ­ Common Questions and Answers about Brining.
 
Below are some of the questions I¹ve been asked about Brining.  Do you
have any?  Send me e-mail at [email protected]
 
Question:  "What's the difference between brining and marinating?"
Answer:   Brining involves salt and osmosis to exchange the fluid in the
brine with the water inside the meat.  Marinating used acidity to break
down the texture of the meat.  You can actually do both if your marinate
has salt in it.
 
Question:  Can I adjust the amount of salt in the brine without
affecting the brining process?
Answer:   Yes.  As long as you follow the basic and have a salty
solution, Osmosis will have the desired effect.  Although if you adjust
it below 1 cup or 3Ž4 cup, you¹re just ³soaking² in salt water, not
brining.  Just because a brine has salt in it, however, doesn¹t mean
you¹re going to get a salty end product.  Try two things. 
One: rinse the meat really well to get the salt off the outside
(remember, Osmosis puts the salt solution inside so you¹re not washing
off the flavors). 
Two: add a sugar (white, turbinado, brown) to your solution to cut the
salt, try for example 2/3 cup of Kosher salt and 2/3 cup of white sugar
to a gallon of water.
I recommend starting with a recipe and it¹s amount of salt, try these
two tricks and see if that gives you the desire effect.  Remember
brining requires a specific concentration of salt to water.  Don¹t cut
back too far.

--
K.

Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<Katraatcenturyteldotnet>,,<

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote:

> I imagine that brining would help emu since it's so dry, lean and tough.

Only if it's an older bird,
and only if you over-cook it.

Emu and Ostrich both need to be served _RARE_!!!

Then it's every bit as good as venison.
--
K.
 
"Bubbabob" <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Halvdan" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> This was an organic turkey. I used a 1 gallon of liquid to 1 cup of
>> salt. The meat was actually quite tender and not mushy. I've brined
>> other turkeys for varying amounts of time and have had some good
>> results. I brined a breast for about 4 hours in orange juice and salt,
>> that worked rather well. I've read that with fronzen or fresh turkeys
>> the ratio for an over night brining should be about 1/2 cup to one
>> gallon, I let my first turkey stay in a while longer since it was a
>> free range turkey. It's worth experimenting, at sometime I hope to
>> cure a turkey and hot smoke it.
>>
>>
>
> Was that whole gallon vinegar? That's what I envisioned based on the
> wording of your post. If it was diluted, that's another matter.


What vinegar? The first post said apple cider, this one says orange juice.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"D.Currie" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Bubbabob" <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Halvdan" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> This was an organic turkey. I used a 1 gallon of liquid to 1 cup of
> >> salt. The meat was actually quite tender and not mushy. I've brined
> >> other turkeys for varying amounts of time and have had some good
> >> results. I brined a breast for about 4 hours in orange juice and salt,
> >> that worked rather well. I've read that with fronzen or fresh turkeys
> >> the ratio for an over night brining should be about 1/2 cup to one
> >> gallon, I let my first turkey stay in a while longer since it was a
> >> free range turkey. It's worth experimenting, at sometime I hope to
> >> cure a turkey and hot smoke it.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Was that whole gallon vinegar? That's what I envisioned based on the
> > wording of your post. If it was diluted, that's another matter.
>
>
> What vinegar? The first post said apple cider, this one says orange juice.
>
>

He probably thought Apple cider vinegar.

Oops!
--
K.
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:26:40 -0600, Katra <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> The best chicken brine I've ever found is Vietnamese nuoc cham sauce,
>> made from nuoc mam, garlic, sugar, chiles, water and lime juice. I
>> usually give it 36-48 hours and then grill it over charcoal and some
>> apple wood. The nuoc mam provides all of the necessary salt and the lime
>> juice tenderizes the meat through acidity.
>
>Ok, and I repeat my question from another thread...
>
>Is this really "brining" or "marinating"???

Technically this isn't brining.

The point of brining is that the solution you're soaking the meat in has a
much higher salt content than the meat does. High concentrations of salt
will always move in to places where there are lower concentrations of salt
until equilibrium is established. When we brine, we are using this fact to
introduce flavour and moisture into the meat in question. The salt makes it
possible for the liquid and other flavours to pass into the meat more
readily and deeply, which results in more moisture, more evenly distributed
throughout the piece of meat.

You can't "brine" an already salted meat, like ham, unless you make your
solution even saltier than the ham. I wonder if it'd be possible to
"desalt" the ham by soaking it in plain water for days. I imagine that'd be
more difficult because another key element to the brining is that there's
fluid floating around, making it easier to move the salt and stuff into the
meat, but inside the meat there's not as much moisture for there to be as
much of a free flow outwards... hrm....

Marinades usually use acid to help breakdown or soften the meat fibers
(hence the citrus), and the flavour does not get as deeply into the meat as
a brine does. Brining does not require any acid whatsoever. I use bitter
orange juice in my brine to impart flavour to the meat, not for the brining
process. You can brine meat just using the proper ratio of salt and water.

Anyway, brining is a specific process involving specific ratios of salt and
water that will encourage the process of attaining balance in salinity.

--
Siobhan Perricone
Humans wrote the bible,
God wrote the rocks
-- Word of God by Kathy Mar
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom Back