your thoughts on this training philosophy:



ccrnnr9

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May 5, 2004
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I have been talking to some other coaches recently and ran into a coach who shared with me an interesting approach to training. He says that although he likes to analyze HR and power files, he finds them to be inconsequential to planning workouts for his athletes. An interesting thing to note that is that he said he doesn't believe it matters what one's power and HR is at a certain time, but rather if a person can maintain a certain speed (say 25mph for a cat3 crit) then he/she won't make it in a race. Therefore he does a lot of interval training by speed and accounts for wind and other factors in some way or another (i.e. for every 10mph of headwind, a 1-2mph decrease in interval speed and vice versa). He also says he does not make this a strict number to adhere to, but the goal of the interval. In addition he says that by utilizing power numbers for analyzing a ride, but using reality (speed) and mechanics (gearing) he can train his riders to be more effective in race situations.

While this seems like a good idea, I don't know that I see any difference in using speed to perscribe interval intensities. I need to brush up on my physics (a lot) but if someone is riding at 300watts (lets say this is their FTP) and workouts are perscribed for 2x20's where he would be doing 100-105% of his FTP, this would be 300-315watts for the interval. If done outside, the speed could be highly variable due to terrain, wind, etc. This is all obvious. Now if the same workout were described based on speed (lets say hold around 25mph over each 20min interval instead of 300-315 watts) then correct me if I am wrong, but that would limit the effectiveness of the workout as without wattage you would not know the true physiological strain being put on the individual. I guess I just don't see how this is any more effective than training with power, or better yet, how it will prepare someone for racing when say they have to hold a 25mph speed with attacks thrown in because that 25mph has got to equate to some power that has some physiological effect on one's system. All in all it seems like degressing when you consider the technology available to us these days....
Penny for your thoughts.
~Nick
 
ccrnnr9 said:
All in all it seems like degressing when you consider the technology available to us these days....
Agree. Many of the factors that he has to account for manually (and more) are already captured by the power meter.
 
ccrnnr9 said:
I have been talking to some other coaches recently and ran into a coach who shared with me an interesting approach to training. He says that although he likes to analyze HR and power files, he finds them to be inconsequential to planning workouts for his athletes. An interesting thing to note that is that he said he doesn't believe it matters what one's power and HR is at a certain time, but rather if a person can maintain a certain speed (say 25mph for a cat3 crit) then he/she won't make it in a race. Therefore he does a lot of interval training by speed and accounts for wind and other factors in some way or another (i.e. for every 10mph of headwind, a 1-2mph decrease in interval speed and vice versa). He also says he does not make this a strict number to adhere to, but the goal of the interval. In addition he says that by utilizing power numbers for analyzing a ride, but using reality (speed) and mechanics (gearing) he can train his riders to be more effective in race situations.

While this seems like a good idea, I don't know that I see any difference in using speed to perscribe interval intensities. I need to brush up on my physics (a lot) but if someone is riding at 300watts (lets say this is their FTP) and workouts are perscribed for 2x20's where he would be doing 100-105% of his FTP, this would be 300-315watts for the interval. If done outside, the speed could be highly variable due to terrain, wind, etc. This is all obvious. Now if the same workout were described based on speed (lets say hold around 25mph over each 20min interval instead of 300-315 watts) then correct me if I am wrong, but that would limit the effectiveness of the workout as without wattage you would not know the true physiological strain being put on the individual. I guess I just don't see how this is any more effective than training with power, or better yet, how it will prepare someone for racing when say they have to hold a 25mph speed with attacks thrown in because that 25mph has got to equate to some power that has some physiological effect on one's system. All in all it seems like degressing when you consider the technology available to us these days....
Penny for your thoughts.
~Nick
you mean regressing? Or reversing the evolutionary process? If so, then I agree :)

It's analogous to a control "feed-forward" versus "feedback" loop. And it's much, much easier and more logical to use direct performance feedback rather than ass-timate :)
 
There are coaches around, that do not understand much of newer training approaches. So they tend to hold on ancient ideas and to simplify the rest.

The mentioned coach might be a good coach (seeing his success in coaching athletes), but he might be challanged to analyze and understand power files the way we do. As long as not too many people are training with power, he won't see a problem. In a few years this will have changed (I guess).
 
rmur17 said:
you mean regressing? Or reversing the evolutionary process? If so, then I agree :)

It's analogous to a control "feed-forward" versus "feedback" loop. And it's much, much easier and more logical to use direct performance feedback rather than ass-timate :)
Haha yes... :eek: ...I have been known to botch words like that...
 
"Therefore he does a lot of interval training by speed and accounts for wind and other factors in some way or another (i.e. for every 10mph of headwind, a 1-2mph decrease in interval speed and vice versa)."

Sounds like a very crude iBike. (At least it would still work north of Dallas in the winter.) - TF