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#1 DeadLights

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:27 AM

I want to give a brief rundown. So you know where I stand.  I'm 32. I weighed in at 260lb last October. Now I'm down to 192 and just purchased myself a Trek 1.1. I have always enjoyed biking so it was a no brainer for me; I am absolutely hooked.

 

While losing weight I have been doing strength training for muscle retention. I decided when I started that I didn't want to be a bean pole. I want people to look at me with my shirt off and know I workout. So 3 times a week I'm lifting weights and big compound lifts; Squats, Dead lifts, Bench, Overhead press.

 

 I live in a very hilly area. So my challenge is to become good at hills. I have no choice. My leg muscles on bike rides are begging for death! I make it up the big hills. Usually very slowly and by the time I'm cresting the lactic acid in my legs have built up so much that I spend the entire ride down trying to stretch and ride at the same time.

 

My question to you all is. What type of training do you do in the weight room to be more powerful on the road? I really don't want to give up squats. Is it just that my legs are not used to this type of endurance? I obviously hit legs hard in the weight room, but biking is a different beast. That's using the muscle for extended periods of time, so perhaps it will get better?

 

What types of training should I be doing on the road? My first goal is to get good enough to not be an embarrassment on a group ride. My second goal is to work my way up to long rides 50+ mile rides. Currently I'm riding 16-20 miles at a time. I'm also only able to ride on weekends due to family life, so getting a lot of riding days in are hard. I just have to hit the road and hit it hard 2 days a week. Will that be enough riding for me to be able to at least hang with the big boys?

 

 

 

 

 

 















#2 DAL1955

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:46 PM



Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post

I want to give a brief rundown. So you know where I stand.  I'm 32. I weighed in at 260lb last October. Now I'm down to 192 and just purchased myself a Trek 1.1. I have always enjoyed biking so it was a no brainer for me; I am absolutely hooked.

 

While losing weight I have been doing strength training for muscle retention. I decided when I started that I didn't want to be a bean pole. I want people to look at me with my shirt off and know I workout. So 3 times a week I'm lifting weights and big compound lifts; Squats, Dead lifts, Bench, Overhead press.

 

 I live in a very hilly area. So my challenge is to become good at hills. I have no choice. My leg muscles on bike rides are begging for death! I make it up the big hills. Usually very slowly and by the time I'm cresting the lactic acid in my legs have built up so much that I spend the entire ride down trying to stretch and ride at the same time.

 

My question to you all is. What type of training do you do in the weight room to be more powerful on the road? I really don't want to give up squats. Is it just that my legs are not used to this type of endurance? I obviously hit legs hard in the weight room, but biking is a different beast. That's using the muscle for extended periods of time, so perhaps it will get better?

 

What types of training should I be doing on the road? My first goal is to get good enough to not be an embarrassment on a group ride. My second goal is to work my way up to long rides 50+ mile rides. Currently I'm riding 16-20 miles at a time. I'm also only able to ride on weekends due to family life, so getting a lot of riding days in are hard. I just have to hit the road and hit it hard 2 days a week. Will that be enough riding for me to be able to at least hang with the big boys?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm a little surprised that you haven't been inundated with replies... but first, and pardon the length of this reply, congratulations on your wight loss and welcome to the family, warts and all. There are many more qualified to speak to some of your individual questions, but I'll open up the discussion and hope that others chime in.

 

1. You want to look like you work out - good, keep doing what you are doing and you will look like you work out. It will help your cycling in a minor way as you should have the core strength to stabilize yourself on the bike. Squats will help your legs look like you work out, but generally won't help your cycling unless they were exceptionally weak when you started. Same for leg presses, dead lifts, or pretty much any other leg based gym routine. Search for posts by FeltRider. He was a competitive bodybuilder and knows his stuff, and I think he and most will agree that you will not improve your cycling in the gym. You will be strong, your clothes will fit well, you will look like you work out, because you do, but lots of very strong guys are out of breath by the time the get to their car.


2. Cycling is an aerobic endurance sport and you have to train those systems by working them out, just like you do your muscles. According to Joel Friel in the cyclists Training Bible, there are three phases of the development of general cycling fitness. muscular strength, muscular endurance, and aerobic endurance. Training for cycling is about consistency and specificity. In other words, you have to be on your bike putting the necessary systems to work, so they can adapt and get stronger. If one of those systems is weak, it shows up when you ride. Based on what you have said, and reading a little between the lines, I would bet both your muscular endurance and aerobic fitness are weak. To get a feel for where you are take one spin class...I know, the guys in the free weight area will give you a hard time, but so what. Try one and you will identify where you are weak. 

 

3. Cycling for long periods of time taxes both your muscular endurance and your aerobic systems. You have to develop the ability to function for extended periods of high heart rate as well as long periods of applying relatively high pressure to the pedals. Its all about the balance on any ride over about an hour or two long. On a training ride, establish your normal speed and then shift up a gear at a time and increase your cadence while holding your speed; spin at what feels exceptionally fast for as long as you can hold your speed. When you can't get enough air to keep it up, drop down to your lower gear and slow your cadence to where you started, hold your speed. Let your breathing come back to fairly normal levels (recover) and hold your speed until you legs start to feel a bit tired. Shift back up to the higher gear and spin for a while and let your legs recover, all the while holding your speed fairly constant. When you need to, drop the gear and use your legs some more. This style will work both your aerobic system and help build your muscular endurance. This works well when you have a flat or rolling area to ride in.

 

4. The secret to climbing hills is to be able to spin the pedals relatively fast (85-100 rpm). From your description of lactic acid in the legs, my guess is that you are trying to climb too fast in too high a gear. New riders tend in general to have a fairly low cadence(60-70 rpm) and end up with sore legs and sometimes damaged knees.

 

5. Hills are the best training ground you can find. Spin fast up the hill push hard on the downhill side. As you develop fitness, the speed up the hill will increase as you are able to push a lower gear on the uphill side without burning out your legs. The variation is cadence and gearing helps keep your legs flushed out during the ride and you won't feel like you have to spend the ride stretching out your legs.

 

6. Hanging with the big boys takes longer. be patient.

 

7. To answer your specific question, I would spend a part of your gym time on a bike or trainer instead of doing weights. I would do intervals on the bike 2 days during the week, weights on the third gym day, and ride as much as you can on the weekend.

 

For a good description of training intervals look at the thread "Its killing me" and look at the interval description. For example 2 intervals 20 minutes long at a riding cadence of 85-90 RPM, with a resistance level that you could barely manage for the 20 minutes, rest for 5-10 minutes and do it again would be referred to as a 2x20min threshold interval. I would not try to do this after a leg workout. Ignore all the power this and the until you are ready, and focus on a perceived exertion level of about an 8 or so. If you cannot do 20 min, reduce it to what you can. When that is easy, increase the duration to 30 minutes, or increase the resistance for 20.

 

8. New riders on a group ride, pick your group wisely, and new riders will be welcomed and encouraged. Pick the A level hammerfest group and you likely won't see them for long and you'll be riding solo. Ask me how I know! I ride with a group capable of 20 mph or so over long distances like 100 miles which is over my head right now, but I ride with them when they are going shorter and fast or long and slower. That way I'm not holding them back on their long fast rides, but I also get the benefit of riding with a group of stronger riders much of the time. From where you are now, it took me just about over a year of pretty diligent training to be able to do the 50-60 mile rides at 19-20mph, or much of any distance at 20 mph.  

 

DAL

 

 


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#3 swampy1970

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:03 PM

... Point 4. Hogwash. Someone tell Boonen that you need to do 90rpm up a regular hill ;) he seems to do just fine in a massive gear at 75rpm and looking like he's gonna rip his bike apart... It might be that if you have 2 weeks of big mountains to deal with in a grand tour that climbing in a lower gear is key but for the one day guys it really is whatever gear gets you up that hill the fastest. Even Armstrong when he was attacking and laying down the law spent a lot of time out of the saddle in a fairly big gear. Chances are if you're racing up a hill and there's someone faster that you then it's all about holding wheels and not expecting style points on the way up. Find a hill with a fairly constant grade. Ride up it several times at the same speed but in different gears. Figure out which gets you up the least fatigued. Then do the same thing riding a couple of mph faster and see which method keeps you going the furthest. As you fitness changes your style of climbing may change... Imagine doing 5 minute intervals on a 8 minute hills - big gear, little gear which gets you furthest before you barf?

#4 Felt_Rider

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:35 AM



Originally Posted by DAL1955 View Post

 

 

1. You want to look like you work out - good, keep doing what you are doing and you will look like you work out. It will help your cycling in a minor way as you should have the core strength to stabilize yourself on the bike. Squats will help your legs look like you work out, but generally won't help your cycling unless they were exceptionally weak when you started. Same for leg presses, dead lifts, or pretty much any other leg based gym routine. Search for posts by FeltRider. He was a competitive bodybuilder and knows his stuff, and I think he and most will agree that you will not improve your cycling in the gym. You will be strong, your clothes will fit well, you will look like you work out, because you do, but lots of very strong guys are out of breath by the time the get to their car.

 


I do agree

 

Even though I attempt to train progressively in both lifting and cycling I find the two to be antogonistic to each other in a number of ways.

 

 

Deadlights,

I am getting better in cycling with very small incremental changes, but I had to break from the 2 day weekend warrior group ride schedule and start training in cycling more consistently with about 7 to 10 hours a week invested and by training in certain intensity levels. Most of us have tight schedules, but only you can decide what it is worth (not sacrificing family time of course) and the sacrifices you have to make to get to those goals. I only have a wife, but even with just her I need to invest in my relationship so the sacrifice I make is waking up at 4 am and train at the gym and then I train in the evenings in cycling. Saturday and most Sundays I can get out for an endurance type ride. You may be able to squeeze in the additional time here and there, but like most things you have to make the adjustments, the commitment and the sacrifice without interupting the more important things in life if you really want to progress.

 

I too wanted to keep up with the group rides as a main cycing goal, but oddly I find myself training solo the majority of the time now. Funny how things evolve over a period of time.


 

 



#5 DAL1955

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:48 AM

... Point 4. Hogwash

Baloney to you too! I wouldn't presume to tell Tom Boonen anything, what he does works just fine for him. I was responding to the point about having legs so burnt that he spent the rest of the ride stretching and trying to recover. Remember we are dealing with a basic beginner,, and when you are at that stage, it's about surviving the ride, not holding someone's wheel. A few weeks or months from now sure, you are spot on. Now, he needs a technique to get to the top in a state that allows him to survive the rest of the ride.

#6 swampy1970

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:32 PM

Dal, It's more than likely a case of going too hard that's causing the legs to wish for death and not the case that pushing a big gear is causing his legs to block up. It may be that their level of fitness and the gradient of the hill is such that bottom gear is too big and it's death on a bike by default. Saying that you must go up hills at 85+rpm is just plain wrong. If that was the case most people outside of Florida would be riding bikes with a 26x32 bottom gear.

 

Deadlights - there are no weight training exercises that will make you good on hill longer than 30 seconds. It's an aerobic sport and hills bring to the equation the importance of weight - or lack thereof. The only way to go significantly faster up hills is increase aerobic fitness and reduced weight. As Felt has found out, it is possible to increase aerobic fitness whilst doing weights but gains on the bike through aerobic training might not come as fast as they might have done without weight training and the added training stress from doing weights sometimes makes recovery and subsequent exercise more difficult.

 

If you have limited time during the week then an indoor trainer might be your friend - put your bike on it warm up and ride hard. Consistency is the key. If you can only manage half an hour, warm up for 10 minutes, kill yourself for 20 and stumble off into the shower... Maybe every other week swap a weight session for a bike session. The harder aerobic efforts, ie efforts longer than 10 minutes, are what will bring good initial gains and will also provide the cornerstone of all training in the future but if you want to go really hard for any reason - even if it's just for fun - then do it. Keep it fun. On the longer weekend rides, try and figure out what effort you can maintain for a couple of hours. As it sounds like it's hilly where you're at, it will likely be that you'll be going harder up the hills than down but you don't want to be going up the hills so hard that you really are smashed when you get to the top. Use a smaller gear if you have one and it you don't and you need one then a different cassette or small chainring (or crank) could be in your future - unless you're still losing weight, in which case combined with increasing fitness you might be OK in a month or so...

 

Is this the bike you got?

 

http://www.trekbikes.../1_1_h2_compact

 

If it is then consider changing that rear cassette for one with a sprocket larger than 25. I believe the SRAM powerglide 850 cassette is available with a 28 tooth sprocket that will make life much easier if you find yourself constantly in the 25 sprocket and wishing for something smaller.



#7 DeadLights

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:45 PM

Awesome posts!

 

 I literally do not get winded when my legs cry. I had to REALLY try to wind myself on my last ride. I can run 12 miles. I can push a prowler sled with 120lb loaded on it at 1 minutes intervals for extended periods of time. I beat up the elliptical at the gym like it owes me money. I have whipped my heart and lungs into shape! However, I was an off and on smoker for 17 years. So I may not be getting the amount of oxygen that I need, so I'm most certain that plays a big role in the oxygen department. One thing all the interval training I have done has done for me, is give great recovery. I can have my heart rate in the 170s and in 1-1.5 minutes time I'm back in the 120s again. Pretty good for an ex-smoker if you ask me. :)

 

I'm just going to take it slow and work on my cadence, and figuring out my gears, and what I need to do to keep my RPMs in an acceptable range without petering out too soon. I bought a digital odometer that keeps track of many things. It will show my rpm, distance, speed. It was a cheap $50 thing but it should help me to get a handle on things.

 

EDIT: One other thing I thought about. I was in the lowest gear possible to get up some of the big hills and going about as slow as a snail. My legs were crying all the way!

 



#8 DeadLights

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:52 PM



Originally Posted by swampy1970 View Post

Dal, It's more than likely a case of going too hard that's causing the legs to wish for death and not the case that pushing a big gear is causing his legs to block up. It may be that their level of fitness and the gradient of the hill is such that bottom gear is too big and it's death on a bike by default. Saying that you must go up hills at 85+rpm is just plain wrong. If that was the case most people outside of Florida would be riding bikes with a 26x32 bottom gear.

 

Deadlights - there are no weight training exercises that will make you good on hill longer than 30 seconds. It's an aerobic sport and hills bring to the equation the importance of weight - or lack thereof. The only way to go significantly faster up hills is increase aerobic fitness and reduced weight. As Felt has found out, it is possible to increase aerobic fitness whilst doing weights but gains on the bike through aerobic training might not come as fast as they might have done without weight training and the added training stress from doing weights sometimes makes recovery and subsequent exercise more difficult.

 

If you have limited time during the week then an indoor trainer might be your friend - put your bike on it warm up and ride hard. Consistency is the key. If you can only manage half an hour, warm up for 10 minutes, kill yourself for 20 and stumble off into the shower... Maybe every other week swap a weight session for a bike session. The harder aerobic efforts, ie efforts longer than 10 minutes, are what will bring good initial gains and will also provide the cornerstone of all training in the future but if you want to go really hard for any reason - even if it's just for fun - then do it. Keep it fun. On the longer weekend rides, try and figure out what effort you can maintain for a couple of hours. As it sounds like it's hilly where you're at, it will likely be that you'll be going harder up the hills than down but you don't want to be going up the hills so hard that you really are smashed when you get to the top. Use a smaller gear if you have one and it you don't and you need one then a different cassette or small chainring (or crank) could be in your future - unless you're still losing weight, in which case combined with increasing fitness you might be OK in a month or so...

 

Is this the bike you got?

 

http://www.trekbikes.../1_1_h2_compact

 

If it is then consider changing that rear cassette for one with a sprocket larger than 25. I believe the SRAM powerglide 850 cassette is available with a 28 tooth sprocket that will make life much easier if you find yourself constantly in the 25 sprocket and wishing for something smaller.



I have that bike but I believe mine is a 2010. Mine is solid blue with white lettering and from the research I did online I believe it's 2010. The guy I bought it from had it in his basement and never used it. Lucky me!

 

The hills I hit that kill my legs are very large. I'm going up for 1-2 minutes. If it were 30 seconds I could just burn up them like a boss and deal with it. I have 3 hills like that on the 15 mile ride I have been doing. The rest of the hills are manageable but the 3 large ones really tax the rest of my ride. 

 

I am still losing weight. I'm 192 and plan to get to 165-170. I'm 5'10 so that should be a good weight for me.



#9 dhk2

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:18 PM



Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post

Awesome posts!

 

 I literally do not get winded when my legs cry. I had to REALLY try to wind myself on my last ride. I can run 12 miles. I can push a prowler sled with 120lb loaded on it at 1 minutes intervals for extended periods of time. I beat up the elliptical at the gym like it owes me money. I have whipped my heart and lungs into shape! However, I was an off and on smoker for 17 years. So I may not be getting the amount of oxygen that I need, so I'm most certain that plays a big role in the oxygen department. One thing all the interval training I have done has done for me, is give great recovery. I can have my heart rate in the 170s and in 1-1.5 minutes time I'm back in the 120s again. Pretty good for an ex-smoker if you ask me. :)

 

I'm just going to take it slow and work on my cadence, and figuring out my gears, and what I need to do to keep my RPMs in an acceptable range without petering out too soon. I bought a digital odometer that keeps track of many things. It will show my rpm, distance, speed. It was a cheap $50 thing but it should help me to get a handle on things.

 

EDIT: One other thing I thought about. I was in the lowest gear possible to get up some of the big hills and going about as slow as a snail. My legs were crying all the way!

 


The experience you have is typical of runners coming into the sport of cycling, at least the few runners I've known.  The reason you don't get winded when you ride but have screaming legs, is that you don't have your circulatory system and muscles developed for cycling.  You can be in great cardio shape for running, have a high-functioning cardio core (heart/lungs),  but if all that 02 in the blood can't get to the specific muscles you're using on the bike, you'll quickly be forced to slow down with burning legs.  Give it 6 months of riding, a few thousand miles with lots of hills, and you'll see big changes.   Building the miles of new capilliaries you need and toning up millions (billions?) of dormant mitochrodria doesn't happen overnight. 

 

It's really a good thing that training is so specific.   Would be a boring world of sports if the same guys won running sprints, miles, marathons, then hopped on the bike and won the TdF. 



#10 An old Guy

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:36 PM



Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post
 

 

Being able to run 12 miles should translate to being able to bicycle 2 hours or so at a comparable power output. After a week of riding you should be as comfortable as you were while running.

 

If you are using your lowest gear, perhaps you need a lower gear. Going up hills you use your gears to match your power to a comfortable cadence. Don't let the cadence drive the equation. You might conpare your speed running up the hills to your bicycling speed. If the hills are steep, bicycling should be slower.

 

The big issue is riding only on the weekends. You should have a riding schedule that somewhat matches what used to be your running schedule. And I am sure you ran on days other than weekends.

 

 


A 50/16 high gear is sufficient to finish a solo 100 miles in under 5 hours. A 50/14 is sufficient to finish in under 4 hours. Unless you are a pro anything higher is just pretending


#11 DAL1955

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:07 PM

Awesome posts!

 

 I literally do not get winded when my legs cry. I had to REALLY try to wind myself on my last ride. I can run 12 miles. I can push a prowler sled with 120lb loaded on it at 1 minutes intervals for extended periods of time. I beat up the elliptical at the gym like it owes me money. I have whipped my heart and lungs into shape! However, I was an off and on smoker for 17 years. So I may not be getting the amount of oxygen that I need, so I'm most certain that plays a big role in the oxygen department. One thing all the interval training I have done has done for me, is give great recovery. I can have my heart rate in the 170s and in 1-1.5 minutes time I'm back in the 120s again. Pretty good for an ex-smoker if you ask me. :)

 

I'm just going to take it slow and work on my cadence, and figuring out my gears, and what I need to do to keep my RPMs in an acceptable range without petering out too soon. I bought a digital odometer that keeps track of many things. It will show my rpm, distance, speed. It was a cheap $50 thing but it should help me to get a handle on things.

 

EDIT: One other thing I thought about. I was in the lowest gear possible to get up some of the big hills and going about as slow as a snail. My legs were crying all the way!

 

Well now we know... 11-25 is a great cassette for Florida, but not so much for a new rider with big hills to conquer. I would get to your LBS and swap it out for an 11-28 or 11-32 if it's available. THEN you can get your RPMs up some on the hills and not burn out your legs so quickly. Swampy had it right, the lowest gear was too big for your current fitness level. Like someone else said, the legs take time to develop as you literally have to grow capillaries to fuel the muscles you are using. Getting a lower low gear will help. My comments about a higher cadence were based on seated climbing for maybe not so extreme hills as you may have. I'm from Florida, what do I know about hills anyway? DAL

#12 moto1

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:08 PM

I'm a mid pack Cat 2 rider. Former bodybuilder also. Dropped my weight from 199lbs down to 167lbs to even come close to being competitve 2 years ago.

. My take on it is ,yes I still like having the muscle tone, but understand the extra weight is hurting my cycling. My balance has been 2 days in the weight room , high reps, no failure. Also I do no lower leg work. Squats and deads are great for adding muscle but I seem to have lost my cycling leg quickness when I was doing them. That being said, I'm weighing 178lbs , have decent muscle tone [250lb bench] and last week I won my first cat 2 mtn bike race.

My training is 3-4 days on the bike , focused on intervals. Mainly I have limited time do to work ,family etc. I'm happy with this blend of training.

just my 2 cents



#13 CAMPYBOB

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 04:33 AM

I want people to look at me with my shirt off and know I workout.

 

"Girl, look at that body!

I work out!"

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist! There's nothing wrong with looking good.

 

Now I'm down to 192...

 

Currently I'm riding 16-20 miles at a time. I'm also only able to ride on weekends due to family life, so getting a lot of riding days in are hard. I just have to hit the road and hit it hard 2 days a week. Will that be enough riding for me to be able to at least hang with the big boys?

 

1. Not knowing your topography.

2. Not knowing your competitors.

3. Not know the training parameters of your riding partners.

 

I'm going to go ahead and say, "No.". That's a lot of unknowns, but...

 

Your weight is too high (although I do know one 199-pound gym rat that is a good climber on 'some' types of climbs).

Your climbing specific mileage and time is too limited/low.

 

Many years ago it was said: To do better on hills...you better DO hills.

 

I think that sums up my climbing training philosophy. If you want to climb better and run with the big dogs, lose some weight and go climb. Then climb some more.

 

I have whipped my heart and lungs into shape! However, I was an off and on smoker for 17 years. So I may not be getting the amount of oxygen that I need, so I'm most certain that plays a big role in the oxygen department. One thing all the interval training I have done has done for me, is give great recovery. I can have my heart rate in the 170s and in 1-1.5 minutes time I'm back in the 120s again. Pretty good for an ex-smoker if you ask me. :)

 

The lungs NEVER forget! I'm an ex-smoker, myself, and the lungs have a better memory than the brain. Congrat's on quitting.

 

I have to agree with the other guys that are telling you to give it a little more time and gain a little more experience. Nothing will improve your ability to compete with others and improve your cycling than doing what you are doing...riding with a group of faster riders! Given the competitve nature of the gym rats I've known, you'll soon be topping those hills with the leaders.

 

 

 

 


Cycling isn't a "beautiful sport". Lingerie Football...now THAT'S a beautiful sport!


#14 DeadLights

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 10:11 AM

Good news on this front. Due to a recent schedule change with my wife, I will now be able to ride for at least an hour every night after work. So I'm going to get in a short ride every day of the week and will be able to do 2 long rides on the weekends. So /fistpump to that!

 

I never really thought about my weight factoring in before. I mean, I am peddling 192lb around, so why wouldn't that suck going up a hill...duh. I'm losing at about 2lb per week. So I'll be down in no time. By the end of the summer I should be riding like the wind. 

 

Yesterday after work I did 11.5 miles in 54 minutes. A lot of that was hills, so I'm not upset with the time at all. Today I'm going to try and do it faster. It will be the course I ride on the weekdays. Should be a good start for my training.

 

As for the lifting, I have had to slow down on that. I have lumbar spondylosis (sp?) and a pinched nerve. So now I have sharp pains shooting down my leg to the heal of my foot when I lift/run. My doctor actually suggested I not run any more. I can deal with it on my bike. I don't get the sharp pains, but after an hour of riding my back starts to get sore and tight feeling. I have to stand up on my peddles and stretch it out quite often at times. Getting old sucks...

 

Is there a certain posture I should hold to help with the back pain? I did get myself fitted at my LBS, so I know my frame and seat are all correct, but any pro tips would be helpful.



#15 64Paramount

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:29 PM

Just keep standing up up on the pedals and stretching when you need to relieve your back as you have been doing.

 

Also, change your hand position on the bars often; ride on the hoods for awhile, then the top bar, then the drops, and all points in between. It may not seem like a big deal, but changing your hand position just a couple of inches can change your ride geometry enough to help reduce your back muscle fatigue.

 

I'm not a pro, but I am getting old...  


Sometimes you may have to look very close to see it, but a measure of grace exists within us all..

#16 DAL1955

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 01:34 PM



Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post

 Getting old sucks...

 

Is there a certain posture I should hold to help with the back pain? I did get myself fitted at my LBS, so I know my frame and seat are all correct, but any pro tips would be helpful.


I am a pro at getting old, had back issues long ago, surgically repaired, now pretty good. I suspect that even though you probably have generally good core strength and fitness from the weight training, you back just isn't used to being in the cycling position for long periods. Move around as much as you can, stand, shift your hands, and if needed, stop and stretch. It will get better as you cycle more.

 



#17 swampy1970

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:02 PM



Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by swampy1970 View Post

Dal, It's more than likely a case of going too hard that's causing the legs to wish for death and not the case that pushing a big gear is causing his legs to block up. It may be that their level of fitness and the gradient of the hill is such that bottom gear is too big and it's death on a bike by default. Saying that you must go up hills at 85+rpm is just plain wrong. If that was the case most people outside of Florida would be riding bikes with a 26x32 bottom gear.

 

Deadlights - there are no weight training exercises that will make you good on hill longer than 30 seconds. It's an aerobic sport and hills bring to the equation the importance of weight - or lack thereof. The only way to go significantly faster up hills is increase aerobic fitness and reduced weight. As Felt has found out, it is possible to increase aerobic fitness whilst doing weights but gains on the bike through aerobic training might not come as fast as they might have done without weight training and the added training stress from doing weights sometimes makes recovery and subsequent exercise more difficult.

 

If you have limited time during the week then an indoor trainer might be your friend - put your bike on it warm up and ride hard. Consistency is the key. If you can only manage half an hour, warm up for 10 minutes, kill yourself for 20 and stumble off into the shower... Maybe every other week swap a weight session for a bike session. The harder aerobic efforts, ie efforts longer than 10 minutes, are what will bring good initial gains and will also provide the cornerstone of all training in the future but if you want to go really hard for any reason - even if it's just for fun - then do it. Keep it fun. On the longer weekend rides, try and figure out what effort you can maintain for a couple of hours. As it sounds like it's hilly where you're at, it will likely be that you'll be going harder up the hills than down but you don't want to be going up the hills so hard that you really are smashed when you get to the top. Use a smaller gear if you have one and it you don't and you need one then a different cassette or small chainring (or crank) could be in your future - unless you're still losing weight, in which case combined with increasing fitness you might be OK in a month or so...

 

Is this the bike you got?

 

http://www.trekbikes.../1_1_h2_compact

 

If it is then consider changing that rear cassette for one with a sprocket larger than 25. I believe the SRAM powerglide 850 cassette is available with a 28 tooth sprocket that will make life much easier if you find yourself constantly in the 25 sprocket and wishing for something smaller.



The hills I hit that kill my legs are very large. I'm going up for 1-2 minutes. If it were 30 seconds I could just burn up them like a boss and deal with it. I have 3 hills like that on the 15 mile ride I have been doing. The rest of the hills are manageable but the 3 large ones really tax the rest of my ride. 

 

I am still losing weight. I'm 192 and plan to get to 165-170. I'm 5'10 so that should be a good weight for me.


Hate to break it too ya but a 2 minute hill, regardless of gradient, isn't all that big. 2 minutes is enough to kill the legs if you have to go very hard for that period of time just to get up the hill but you don't have to try and pedal fast - you can get out of the saddle and roll the gear over at 50rpm if it means that you're not really hurting at the top.

 

There's a noticable difference between a 28 and 25 sprocket, so if you find yourself in the smallest chainring and largest sprocket then a change in cassette may probably the best $80 or so dollars you spent on the bike.

 

You'll notice a massive difference when climbing hills at 165lbs rather than 192. Life will be much easier.
 

 

 



#18 swampy1970

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:20 PM



Originally Posted by DeadLights View Post

As for the lifting, I have had to slow down on that. I have lumbar spondylosis (sp?) and a pinched nerve. So now I have sharp pains shooting down my leg to the heal of my foot when I lift/run. My doctor actually suggested I not run any more. I can deal with it on my bike. I don't get the sharp pains, but after an hour of riding my back starts to get sore and tight feeling. I have to stand up on my peddles and stretch it out quite often at times. Getting old sucks...

 

Is there a certain posture I should hold to help with the back pain? I did get myself fitted at my LBS, so I know my frame and seat are all correct, but any pro tips would be helpful.


Just curious... did you have the lumbar spondylosis verified by imaging (x-ray/CT/MRI)?

 

I wouldn't count on a bike fit from the local bike shop being correct. It'll ensure that you look kinda sorta OK on the bike... well, maybe.

 

Getting out of the saddle every now and then is recommended. Too much time being in the same position isn't really a leading cause of happiness but is sometimes required if you're time trialing etc After you ride stretch your hamstrings, glutes, psoas and quads well. Gentle stretching before a ride might help but nothing too deep.

 

 



#19 fuzzed

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:30 PM



Originally Posted by swampy1970 View Post


Hate to break it too ya but a 2 minute hill, regardless of gradient, isn't all that big. 2 minutes is enough to kill the legs if you have to go very hard for that period of time just to get up the hill but you don't have to try and pedal fast - you can get out of the saddle and roll the gear over at 50rpm if it means that you're not really hurting at the top.



 

 


Just out of curiousity, from a newbie point of view, and not meaning to hijack the thread, but what is a time definition of a "big" hill for us in a non mountain area? From a time perspective or distance?

 



#20 DeadLights

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 02:40 PM



Originally Posted by fuzzed View Post


Just out of curiousity, from a newbie point of view, and not meaning to hijack the thread, but what is a time definition of a "big" hill for us in a non mountain area? From a time perspective or distance?

 



That's a good question. 2 minutes of a hill that's so steep I have to punch it in my car to not lose speed is a big hill to me.






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