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problems with ultegra 6600 STI shifter (right hand)


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#1 heguli

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:27 AM

Hello, a cable breaked off during the ride inside shifter. I managed to catch rest of the cable out from shifter but after that shifter do not work properly. My understanding is that one spring has not correctly in place (propably it has disengaged when i tried to remove cable) See attached picture where spring can be seen. Has everyone understanding (picture is appreciated) how this prongs must be installed?? Thanks in advance!! [ATTACHMENT=477]WP_20130918_001.jpg (349k. jpg file)[/ATTACHMENT]













#2 oldbobcat

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:16 PM

The customary method for dealing with broken cable ends in the shifter is to shake, rattle, and fish them out using tweezers and dental picks. Once all the strands of cable are removed they usually work fine.

 

Shimano STI levers aren't built to be serviced beyond getting cleaned and an occasional shot of lubricant. Most shops don't even try to fix them because they can easily become a time and money pit.From their condition, yours look like they were about to stop working anyway.

 

Your best bet is probably replacement, either with a used lever purchased through eBay or a pair of new Sora levers that your local shop can order. Sora is the only remaining 9-speed road system still made by Shimano. Or, replacement 9-speed levers by Microshift can be purchased at nashbar.com. This year's Sora levers are really quite good, and the ones by Microshift are not bad at all.



#3 heguli

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:51 AM

Hello, that might be true that my shifter won't work anyway even i can install spring correctly but i do not know that before i try and because i do not have anything to lose i want try it.. Buying Sora shifter is not option to me.. If i really have to buy new, it will be new Ultegra 6600. If someone have understanding how this spring must be please send a picture.

#4 CAMPYBOB

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:15 AM

Ultegra shown here: http://www.nitrodyno.com/Ultegra-STI/

 

http://www.norvil.net/pedal/service/shimanosti/index.php


Cycling isn't a "beautiful sport". Lingerie Football...now THAT'S a beautiful sport!


#5 alfeng

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heguli View Post

Hello, that might be true that my shifter won't work anyway even i can install spring correctly but i do not know that before i try and because i do not have anything to lose i want try it.. Buying Sora shifter is not option to me.. If i really have to buy new, it will be new Ultegra 6600.
If someone have understanding how this spring must be please send a picture.

 

FWIW. Although I do not have the immediate answer to your query, I would like to suggest that the answer which YOU are looking has probably been readily available if-and-when you take a moment to remove the plastic shroud(s) from your LEFT hand shifter.

BTW. You should be able to substitute a set of Campagnolo shifters, if you so choose. Unless you opt for Record or Chorus shifters, the Campagnolo shifters will cost less than the Ultegra shifters AND all models of Campagnolo shifters will function better with your Shimano drivetrain ...

    The ramping on the Cogs will facilitate any variance in the indexing.

If you cannot remedy your shifter's problem + insist on Ultegra shifters as a possible replacement, then you may-or-may-not want to consider a more recent model.



#6 alienator

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:02 AM

AND all models of Campagnolo shifters will function better with your Shimano drivetrain ...

A purely subjective claim. It completely lacks objective or empirical support.
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#7 alfeng

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alienator View Post

A purely subjective claim. It completely lacks objective or empirical support.
 

 

Well, Troll, there you go again!!!

  YOU clearly choose to ignore previous examples which have been cited numerous times by others in this Forum & elsewhere (e.g., VeloNews.com) just so you can complain about something in the hopes that the naive will presume you are knowledgeable BEYOND the reality of the situaition if your remarks go unchallenged.   As I noted several weeks ago for the claims-to-be-an-engineer who apparently passed his Physics class without knowing the general formula for Momentum, even the www.parktool.com site also uses the term "dwell" which I have repeatedly used to describe the handicap which Shimano has chosen to saddle its Road shifters with!  

That is, "dwell" is a recognized phenomenon which occurs which Shimano shifters have & which has a REAL LABEL ...

  "Dwell" is NOT a good thing ...  
SRAM shifters do not have "dwell" ...
 
Campagnolo shifters do not have "dwell" ...
  Or, are you saying that YOU think that www.parktool.com is unreliable?   Or, do YOU possibly think that they were-and-are echoing me?!?  
As I have noted in the past, the term "dwell" did not originate with me ...  
 
I do not recall who first used the term to described the lag evident to anyone who has gone for more than a ride-in-the-parking-lot with a Shimano equipped Road bike.
    BUT HEY, regardless of how many people experience balky shifting with their Shimano shifters OR pre-Yaw SRAM shifting with the front derailleur, YOU exhibit a profound lack of knowledge of what an empirical observation is ...   BECAUSE any singular observation by any single individual is an Empirical Observation.   Regardless, no one whom you would recognize as being official-enough for you bothers to tabulate the incidences of dodgy shifting which are the result of "dwell" because it is already as well known a phenomenon as Gravity ...  
  • drop an apple, it falls to the ground
  • try to shift as mechanical Shimano Road shifter when the drivetrain is under a load WITHOUT unweighting (i.e., removing the load) the drivetrain & at a certain load you can be assured of balky shifting ... 99.99% of the time at a certain load threshold.
    • that is, this mis-shifts with Shimano shifters CAN be replicated a sufficient enough times under measurable (if someone wanted to) circumstances to be statistically significant
    • if you really want to know what that load threshold is, then buy me a PowerTap 
      • OR, actually take several real rides on an all-Shimano (non-Di2) bike 
  Shimano recognized that there was-and-is a problem even if you want to pretend that there isn't.  A problem which does not exist with either Campagnolo or SRAM shifters.   Rather than admit that there is an easily corrected designed flaw, Shimano has blessed the cycling world with ramping-and-pinning as the kluge as a "work around" to limit the problem.   It IS anecdotal to suggest that if "dwell" wasn't a problem, then the migration to SRAM shifters by many experienced riders would probably not have occurred, but if you were to poll those who did not make the choice to adopt SRAM shifters because they were new-and-different, the occasionally bad shifting would certainly be cited.   Regardless, there simply are no bad shifts (front OR rear) with a bike which has properly set up Campagnolo shifters EVEN WHEN MATED TO A SHIMANO DRIVETRAIN.   BTW.  Because the phenomenon of "dwell" has a REAL name, it is repeatable ... consistently repeatable.  NOTHING, therefore, subjective about MY observation ...  
Ergo, Q.E.D. shifters which do not have "dwell" function better.
  OH, but for you accept repeatable realities would mean that YOU were capable of "critical thinking" and/or "reason" ...  
And, THAT is apparently NOT the case ...
 
OR, perhaps you ignorantly think that "dwell" is a good thing!?!


#8 alienator

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:10 PM

"Empirical" implies verifiable. You have no verifiable evidence. Show me numbers because your subjective observations and those of others are nothing more than opinion (see how that relates to "subjective" and variations of that word?). You'll note, alfeng, your knowledge of Newtonian mechanics was lacking. Your rant proves nothing. Show me evidence that Camapgnolo shifters shift better than Shimano. Evidence.
You're so fetching when you're down on all fours.
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#9 oldbobcat

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB View Post
 

Ultegra shown here: http://www.nitrodyno.com/Ultegra-STI/

 

http://www.norvil.net/pedal/service/shimanosti/index.php

Thanks for the links, Bob. They might come in handy.



#10 heguli

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:26 AM

Hello, i have checked these already but my shifter is 10 gear and not 9 gear and 10 gear is totally different inside so no help..

#11 heguli

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heguli View Post

Hello, that might be true that my shifter won't work anyway even i can install spring correctly but i do not know that before i try and because i do not have anything to lose i want try it.. Buying Sora shifter is not option to me.. If i really have to buy new, it will be new Ultegra 6600.
If someone have understanding how this spring must be please send a picture.

 

FWIW. Although I do not have the immediate answer to your query, I would like to suggest that the answer which YOU are looking has probably been readily available if-and-when you take a moment to remove the plastic shroud(s) from your LEFT hand shifter.

BTW. You should be able to substitute a set of Campagnolo shifters, if you so choose. Unless you opt for Record or Chorus shifters, the Campagnolo shifters will cost less than the Ultegra shifters AND all models of Campagnolo shifters will function better with your Shimano drivetrain ...

    The ramping on the Cogs will facilitate any variance in the indexing.

If you cannot remedy your shifter's problem + insist on Ultegra shifters as a possible replacement, then you may-or-may-not want to consider a more recent model.

Hello, i already opened my left hand triple shifter to see how spring is installed but it was so different that i didn't got the idea.

#12 CAMPYBOB

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:21 AM

Keep offering your opinion, Alf. It is appreciated.

 

OP, I found no pictures of the 6600 10-speed guts that showed the spring clearly.


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#13 alfeng

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alienator View Post

"Empirical" implies verifiable. You have no verifiable evidence. Show me numbers because your subjective observations and those of others are nothing more than opinion (see how that relates to "subjective" and variations of that word?).

You'll note, alfeng, your knowledge of Newtonian mechanics was lacking.

Your rant proves nothing. Show me evidence that Camapgnolo shifters shift better than Shimano. Evidence.

 

Well, Troll ...  

 

It appears that this is yet another example of the lack "reason, critical thought, and listening" on YOUR part!  

 

BECAUSE, if you could listen, then you would be able to understand the example of "dwell" satisfies your request for "verifiable evidence" and that "dwell" is a phenomenon which has been repeated so often (umm, like the effects of Gravity) that it has a commonly accepted name.  

 

Your apparent lack of acceptance that the phenomenon exists as a part of the Shimano experience for the past two decades simply re-enforces my previous observation that your experience with a Shimano equipped bike was limited to the equivalent of parking-lot-test-ride.  

 

Regardless of how much-or-little understanding 'I' might have of any of the Laws of Physics, I apparently have more working knowledge than you because you have not been able to apply the reasoning & critical thought necessary to understand WHY the eccentric take up spool which Shimano's mechanical Road shifters have will forever present a problem until the head engineer who must have been on the team which brought the World the BioPace chainrings is superseded by someone who is not wedded to the concept OR perhaps he-or-some-subordinate will have an epiphany and change the "timing" of the cam.

 

  • I think that YOU need to be worried about how little dhk2 apparently knows-or-remembers about Physics because he claims to have a degree in Engineering & apparently (by his own, earlier declaration) works for a company which does some sub-contracting work for NASA even though he claims to never have seen 'p' used to describe "Momentum" ... 

 

Originally Posted by dhk2 View Post

 

Besides, I can assure you that I've taken a physics course or two, and it's not known to me at all the P stands for Momentum.  Not sure where you came up with that one.  Besides, do really you think Alienator hasn't taken a HS or freshman Physics course....and passed it?
 

 

  • Hey, after more than 40 years, I only failed to remember that it was a lower case 'p' instead of an upper case 'P' when used in its most basic formula to describe "Momentum" ... we already know that dhk2's memory is either faulty or he never learned what he as supposed to with regard to "Newtonian mechanics" (I guess that 'C' & 'D' are satisfactory, passing grades in some programs) ... let's check YOUR memory in 40+ years ...

 

  • But, I digressed ...

 

In other words, the eccentric spool design IS the evidence.

 

  • but, you would apparently need to use some critical thinking to be able to discern that
  • and/or, to subsequently be able to reason why "dwell" occurs as a consequence

 

In other words, the phenomenon IS the evidence. 

 

  • but, you would apparently need to be capable of using some critical thinking to discern that
  • and/or, you would need to be a able to reason if-this-than-that

 

  • FYI.  No one truly understands how Gravity works, yet.

 

BTW.  Do YOU understand the difference between good, better, best as qualifiers?

 

OR, small, smaller, smallest?

 

OR, big, bigger, biggest?

 

Et cetera ...

 

FOR YOUR INFORMATION ...

 

  • if A is bigger than B, then B is smaller than A
  • if D is worse than C, then C is better than D
  • et cetera

 

Shimano shifters are good, but they are handicapped by "dwell."

 

SRAM shifters can be considered to be better than Shimano shifters because they are not handicapped by "dwell" HOWEVER pre-Yaw SRAM front derailleurs are handicapped because SRAM's front shifter is not capable of trimming the front derailluer's cage. 

 

Because Campagnolo shifters are not handicapped by "dwell" AND the front derailleur can be trimmed with Campagnolo shifters it can therefore be suggested that Campagnolo shifters are BETTER than both Shimano & SRAM shifters (both limitations could be easily remedied & thereby make Shimano & SRAM shifters equal to Campagnolo shifters; but, until THAT day arrives, Campagnolo shifters will remain as being better).

 

Q.E.D.

 

What you have demonstrated is THAT understanding "dwell" might require more "critical thinking" on your part than you can fathom.

 

BTW2.  As I stated before, ANY observation by ANY individual is considered to be an Empirical Observation ...  

 

You are truly in a delusional world if you believe that how you arbitrarily re-define terms & concepts is the reality understood by the rest of the World.

 

Perhaps you should stick with cutting-and-pasting rather than an exhibition of your inferior knowledge, lack of reasoning, lack of critical thought & lack of ability to comprehend the various posts & replies to which you feel compelled to comment on BECAUSE the only knowledge which you have repeatedly demonstrated knowing on a consistent basis is how to look up information via the index in the back of the text books which you own + to parrot information which you have read which may-or-may-not be correct + post pictures of bikes for which (for all we know!?!) you could be a paid shill + to troll with your hollow "show me numbers" mantra despite your apparent inability to fathom the numerical summations when they are presented to you.



#14 dhk2

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:19 PM

alfeng, my memory is so bad I can't even remember when I declared I worked for NASA or a NASA contractor.  Can you find that reference for me please?  I'm worried if I said that, because it's not remotely true.  I've been retired 10 years now, but still think I can recall where I worked.



#15 alienator

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:12 PM

Alfeng, anytime you want to discuss physics, let me know. Show me numbers that say front shifting on Campagnolo is better than that on Shimano. Numbers. Those are verifiable. Opinions, such as yours, are not verifiable. That's why they're opinions. I'm not interested in what you "think", what Leonard Zinn "thinks", or what anyone else "thinks". I want to see repeatable measurements that show that Campy front shifting is "better". We can discuss "better" once you do that. Note that just because you like the way something works on one of your Rube Goldberg bikes doesn't make your preference the universal one. dhk2 correctly recognized that "p" is the commonly accepted variable for momentum. He also correctly pointed out that understanding formulas and their physical meanings also requires understanding those formulas when they are written differently. Read a 1950's textbook on quantum physics and then read one from the last 20 years and you'll see such notational differences. You'll note the same in optics texts, statistical mechanics texts, and texts in many other disciplines in physics, as well as other sciences in general. Note that your use of Q.E.D failed because your "proof" is only your opinion. You didn't demonstrate in any fashion that any shifters are better than any others. I'll note that you have failed so show a single numerical proof of anything. Lastly, you should read about the scientific meaning of empirical proof as that is what counts because that is what I do. No numbers, no proof. I guess you'll have to accuse Wikipedia for also rewriting definitions because this is what they have to say about empirical evidence with respect to science:

In science, empirical evidence is required for a hypothesis to gain acceptance in the scientific community. Normally, this validation is achieved by the scientific method of hypothesis commitment, experimental design, peer review, adversarial review, reproduction of results, conference presentation and journal publication. This requires rigorous communication of hypothesis (usually expressed in mathematics), experimental constraints and controls (expressed necessarily in terms of standard experimental apparatus), and a common understanding of measurement.

Note I've never read anything in which dhk2 said he worked for NASA or a NASA contractor.
You're so fetching when you're down on all fours.
..............................-David St. Hubbins

#16 alfeng

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heguli View Post

Hello, i already opened my left hand triple shifter to see how spring is installed but it was so different that i didn't got the idea.

 

FWIW. I have a virgin pair of 6603 shifters (the left hand shifter is Triple-capable) ...

    I don't have the time to unscrew the top shroud & take a picture at the moment ...

    If you can't get the information in the next couple of weeks, then bump this thread OR send me a PM.



#17 alfeng

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhk2 View Post
 

alfeng, my memory is so bad I can't even remember when I declared I worked for NASA or a NASA contractor.  Can you find that reference for me please?  I'm worried if I said that, because it's not remotely true.  I've been retired 10 years now, but still think I can recall where I worked.

 

The thread in question is from several years ago (2009) ...

 


Due to your "working in the aerospace field" I mistakenly took THAT as an inference that you worked for a sub-contractor for NASA because at the time the only other options that come to MY mind would have been the Russians, Chinese, Japanese, or possibly the Hindians ... and, I did not presume that the company for whom you worked was doing work for a foreign entity, so that only left NASA.


If not ... well then, My Bad!

 

---


AND AGAIN, YES (to hopefully repeat what I indicated 4 years ago) ... before the Second Coming, you need to do yourself a favor & try a bike which has Campagnolo shifters (on your favorite, local, hilly ride) with EITHER an all Campagnolo drivetrain OR a hybrid Campagnolo-Shimano drivetrain (obviously, 'I' am presuming that either configuration will have been set up properly by the local Wrench) because "Campagnolo can (indeed) shift the chainrings under any significant load" & you need to try them again with an updated test ...

 

Again, I extended my tests to trying a pair of significantly older, un-ramped & un-pinned Chainrings (on a Shimano crankset) & did NOT have any problems shifting from the inner to outer Chainring (or back) under any normal-for-me circumstances where there had been some balking-or-worse with the drivetrain when it was an all 6500 setup ...  

 

And, the only time I was not able to shift onto a larger Cog was when-there-wasn't-one because (when I looked down-and-back) I was already on my bailout Cog crawling at a pitifully slow ~6mph ... a speed which would have certainly caused the chain to balk-or-skate momentarily-or-longer with my Shimano shifters.

 

  • as I have stated numerous times, the ramping on the Cogs probably does facilitate the rear shifting

 

My experience with Campagnolo shifters when the drivetrain is under a significant load is repeatable 99.99% of the time by anyone -- it's not an opinion, it's a repeatable fact.

 

 

 

 


.



#18 alfeng

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alienator View Post

Alfeng, anytime you want to discuss physics, let me know.

Show me numbers that say front shifting on Campagnolo is better than that on Shimano. Numbers. Those are verifiable. Opinions, such as yours, are not verifiable. That's why they're opinions. I'm not interested in what you "think", what Leonard Zinn "thinks", or what anyone else "thinks". I want to see repeatable measurements that show that Campy front shifting is "better". We can discuss "better" once you do that. Note that just because you like the way something works on one of your Rube Goldberg bikes doesn't make your preference the universal one.

dhk2 correctly recognized that "p" is the commonly accepted variable for momentum. He also correctly pointed out that understanding formulas and their physical meanings also requires understanding those formulas when they are written differently. Read a 1950's textbook on quantum physics and then read one from the last 20 years and you'll see such notational differences. You'll note the same in optics texts, statistical mechanics texts, and texts in many other disciplines in physics, as well as other sciences in general.

Note that your use of Q.E.D failed because your "proof" is only your opinion. You didn't demonstrate in any fashion that any shifters are better than any others.

I'll note that you have failed so show a single numerical proof of anything.

Lastly, you should read about the scientific meaning of empirical proof as that is what counts because that is what I do. No numbers, no proof. I guess you'll have to accuse Wikipedia for also rewriting definitions because this is what they have to say about empirical evidence with respect to science:
Note I've never read anything in which dhk2 said he worked for NASA or a NASA contractor.

 

Well Troll,

 

Again with the denial and the hollow mantras whereby you request numerical data which you cannot comprehend!

 

BTW.  Perhaps I was wrong about you actually do your own wrenching BECAUSE the only reason you would not believe that Campagnolo shifters were better relative to the remarks which others have made about their Shimano and/or SRAM shifters is because you have managed to mangle the setup on your all-Campagnolo bike to the point where you have managed to replicate the sometimes dodgy shifting which Shimano & SRAM users experience from time to time.

 

Can THAT be the case?

 

I think it must be.

 

Try to use some "critical thinking" and process the written word UNLESS if-this-then-that logic is too sophisticated for you, too.



#19 alienator

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

You clearly don't understand the difference between qualitative and quantitative evidence. I go don't care about your "qualitative" facts, because they are subject to human bias, the thing which which generally doesn't affect measurements. What you feel when you do your "comparisons" is irrelevant. Feel free to do some reading about how human bias influences qualitative observations and how susceptible humans are to bias. Another related term you should look up is "confirmation bias." I suspect you are unable to do perform an unbiased experiment. That you are unable to shift Shimano drivetrains under a load is irrelevant. Many people can without issue. Perhaps if you practiced you might be able to do so one day. It's funny that you are aren't aware of how big the aerospace industry is and that the majority of aerospace work is not related at all to NASA. Feel free to do some reading about the civilian and military aerospace industries. I can give you some helpful hints if you'd like. What exactly are "Hindians", alfeng?
You're so fetching when you're down on all fours.
..............................-David St. Hubbins

#20 alienator

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:04 PM

Well Troll, Again with the denial and the hollow mantras whereby you request numerical data which you cannot comprehend! BTW.  Perhaps I was wrong about you actually do your own wrenching BECAUSE the only reason you would not believe that Campagnolo shifters were better relative to the remarks which others have made about their Shimano and/or SRAM shifters is because you have managed to mangle the setup on your all-Campagnolo bike to the point where you have managed to replicate the sometimes dodgy shifting which Shimano & SRAM users experience from time to time. Can THAT be the case? I think it must be. Try to use some "critical thinking" and process the written word UNLESS if-this-then-that logic is too sophisticated for you, too.

Sorry, you've yet to provide any evidence that your "if-then" statement is valid. Hell, you haven't even defined what "better" means your mind. I notice that you can't respond on point.
You're so fetching when you're down on all fours.
..............................-David St. Hubbins




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