Anti-theft-how to secure Allen key accessories? - Page 2

Tony Raven wrote:
> Just go to your local car parts shop or hardware/engineering store. Torx are pretty standard and
> they should be able to provide you with replacements for all the allen head bolts and the
> corresponding tool bits to do and undo them. They are a pretty standard alternative to an allen
> bolt, its just that not many people carry the tools around.

Thanks.

Despite the name, I would worry about not being able to torque them up well or about the heads
rounding off, or heads not being strong enough. Is all this an issue at all?

I've seen small Torx screws and can understand they're better than plain slot or cross head screws
but what are Torx bolts really for? Apart from the security factor, I can't see how they can be as
good as allen bolts. Which Torx ones are used in cars and why?

~PB

Alan Braggins wrote:

>>> The nuclear option would be to epoxy a ball bearing into the socket - I don't think you'd shift
>>> that without a lengthy application of a steam jet though.
>>
>> I could imagine being able to dig it out with a bradawl or small screwdriver or something. Just
>> filling up the socket with epoxy might be even better
>
> Thief uses a suitable size drill bit in a cordless drill and the head falls off the bolt. Putting
> the ball bearing in stops that.

I've glued a bearing ball in a bolt head to test. I'll see how easy it is to remove tomorrow after
epoxy has fully hardened.

- - - - - - - -

Cheers Tone & Guy for your replies.

~PB

Tim Cain wrote:
>>> The nuclear option would be to epoxy a ball bearing into the socket - I don't think you'd shift
>>> that without a lengthy application of a steam jet though.
>>
>> I could imagine being able to dig it out with a bradawl or small screwdriver or something.......
>
> Sounds like a good way to wreck bradawls and screwdrivers.
>
> Honest Injun: If you generously epoxy a 5mm ball-bearing into a 5mm hex-head screw, it ain't
> coming out unless you degrade the adhesive first

I didn't have a ball that fitted the socket so precisely but I got mine out without any heat - with
a file and fine bradawls then screwdriver (with no obvious damage to tools). Hard work though, I
have to admit. I expect a larger ball would indeed be more difficult. Good one.

~PB

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote: [Torx bolts]
> Note: the tamper-resistant version is the one to go for. The ordinary ones can sometimes be bodged
> with a screwdriver or Allen key.

The tamper-resistant ones require an even more specialist tool so you'd be very stuck if you
lost/forgot the tool - particularly if it's needed in middle of ride, and I'm not sure they'd be
suitable portable tools with the pin thing in the middle? 1/4" bits would be ok: are there any of
this type?

I like the idea of making components more secure but there seems to be quite a price to pay in
several ways. Maybe ok for a short-distance commuter bike, but I'm having second thoughts as to
whether they're worth using for more general cycling - where theft is still a worry whenever the
bike is left unattended.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:btm4ak$8ojel$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...

> Despite the name, I would worry about not being able to torque them up well or about the heads
> rounding off, or heads not being strong enough. Is all this an issue at all?
>
> I've seen small Torx screws and can understand they're better than plain slot or cross head screws
> but what are Torx bolts really for? Apart from the security factor, I can't see how they can be as
> good as allen bolts. Which Torx ones are used in cars and why?

The name is accurate - they are better than allen bolts. Think about the angle on the bits of metal
the tool is pushing on - on a torx this is much closer to perpendicular to the direction of force
than on an allen bolt. Here's some spiel for torxplus, which explains it better:

http://www.textronfasteningsystems.c...ve_compare.htm

There are no disadvantages to torx over allen head, apart from possible cost and tool availability.

cheers, clive

I've got a set of Torx bolts holding the Magura discs to Cosimo the Stealth Baron, while the Hope
ones on the Speedmachine have hex heads. The former are easy to remove. The latter are made of
cheese; attempts to remove them normally conclude with the application of a corase file and a pair
of Mole grips. Bah!

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

"Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:btm4m8$8r3ev$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote: [Torx bolts]
> > Note: the tamper-resistant version is the one to go for. The ordinary ones can sometimes be
> > bodged with a screwdriver or Allen key.
>
> The tamper-resistant ones require an even more specialist tool so you'd be very stuck if you
> lost/forgot the tool - particularly if it's needed in middle of ride, and I'm not sure they'd be
> suitable portable tools with the pin thing in the middle? 1/4" bits would be ok: are there any of
> this type?

You can get 1/4" bits and allen-key-like L shaped ones (I have a set). (probably screwdriver-like
ones too).

If you lived in Cambridge I'd send you to mackays...

cheers, clive

Clive George wrote:
> The name is accurate - they are better than allen bolts. Think about the angle on the bits of
> metal the tool is pushing on - on a torx this is much closer to perpendicular to the direction of
> force than on an allen bolt. Here's some spiel for torxplus, which explains it better:
>
http://www.textronfasteningsystems.c...ve_compare.htm
>
> There are no disadvantages to torx over allen head, apart from possible cost and tool
> availability.

Thanks very much Clive. I haven't seen any large enough ones with suitable heads (externally) so far
but I'll have a proper look for them.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:btm4m8$8r3ev$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...

> [Torx bolts]
> > Note: the tamper-resistant version is the one to go for. The ordinary ones can sometimes be
> > bodged with a screwdriver or Allen key.

> The tamper-resistant ones require an even more specialist tool so you'd be very stuck if you
> lost/forgot the tool - particularly if it's needed in middle of ride, and I'm not sure they'd be
> suitable portable tools with the pin thing in the middle? 1/4" bits would be ok: are there any of
> this type?

In my youth I used to sell both 1/4" and key-type tools for tamper-resistant Torx. They are not hard
to get hold of.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

In article <btmdkb$imm$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk>, "Just zis Guy,
you know?" <outlook.bugs@microsoft.com> wrote:
> In my youth I used to sell both 1/4" and key-type tools for tamper-resistant Torx. They are not
> hard to get hold of.

If my memory is correct Screwfix do a kit of tools for tamper proof bolts - google is your friend.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village http://www.sandymillport.fsnet.co.uk