Narrowing Down Recumbent Options

In case my wife reads this, I am only window shopping

But if I were, hypothetically speaking, thinking rather seriously about buying a recumbent which
should I consider? My current hot pick is the HPV Grasshopper. Any others I should consider?

My commute is 4 miles each way (or 8 if I avoid The Hill) and is all on-road but I ride further for
fun as well. I need underseat steering and would be looking to get a Rohloff hub gear.

I rather like the idea of a trike but reckon the Windcheetah is a bit OTT pricewise (for a 4 mile
commute) and the Trice seems unreasonably low to the ground.

Anything else I should be considering? I'm off for some test rides at the start of March.

Oh, and a couple of Qs:

1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting changed.
Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent? Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is cycling wearing a
suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra on weekdays?

2. What's this 'leg suck' I've read about on merkin 'bent sites?

[Not Responding] wrote:

> Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is cycling wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I
> have to start wearing lycra on weekdays?

I think the ghastly-sounding 'leg suck' is a result of not having your feet tightly clipped into
SPDs. It's when your feet/foot drop off the pedals and get stuck underneath the front axle.
Sounds nasty.

On the basis of this, I would say that SPDs are pretty much essential. On trikes at least.

Simon

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:54:03 +0000, "[Not Responding]"
<not_responding@dev.null.invalid> wrote in message
<i2e2301v9d5rdvq9gjosvahc5q21bq61od@4ax.com>:

>But if I were, hypothetically speaking, thinking rather seriously about buying a recumbent which
>should I consider? My current hot pick is the HPV Grasshopper. Any others I should consider?

All of them! Ride as many as you can, they are all subtly different. Visit the shows and ride what
you can, got to bentmongers and have a try.

>I rather like the idea of a trike but reckon the Windcheetah is a bit OTT pricewise (for a 4 mile
>commute) and the Trice seems unreasonably low to the ground.

No lower than the Speedy. DO NOT buy any recumbent untiol you have tried the Trice Monster and / or
XXL. Ahead grin factor 9, Mr Sulu...

>1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting
> changed. Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent?

Yes, especially a trike. You might be best off with a mesh-seat Trice.

>Are SPD shoes compulsory?

No, you can use Look, Eggbeaters, Atacs...

Oh, ISWYM. I would not ride a 'bent without clipless, certainly not on a regular basis.

>Is cycling wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra on
>weekdays?

A suit jacket will be all over the place on a 'bent.

>2. What's this 'leg suck' I've read about on merkin 'bent sites?

It's where you have unwisely ignored the advice of Those Who Know and tried to ride a 'bent without
clipless pedals. At some point your foot slips and your leg goes underneath. Nasty.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"[Not Responding]" <not_responding@dev.null.invalid> wrote in message
news:i2e2301v9d5rdvq9gjosvahc5q21bq61od@4ax.com...
> In case my wife reads this, I am only window shopping
>
> But if I were, hypothetically speaking, thinking rather seriously about buying a recumbent which
> should I consider? My current hot pick is the HPV Grasshopper. Any others I should consider?

cut,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the Trice seems unreasonably
> low to the ground.
>
I recently got a trice classic, (26" back wheel) its fine over rough and uneven ground and with the
same slicks I fit to all my bikes, the rear wheel seems to grip better and slip less under power on
very wet grass - especially now its fitted with a Rohloff hub. peter

Go to Kinetics in Glasgow and try a few of Ben's machines. You will have to try a few to see what you like best.
I find I am lot warmer on a recumbent, but usually wear less layers to compensate for it.
Get clipless pedals, as your feet WILL slip off at some point. You will find it easier to pedal with them anyway.

Good Luck

Andy

[Not Responding] wrote:
> In case my wife reads this, I am only window shopping

Of *course* you are... ;-)

> But if I were, hypothetically speaking, thinking rather seriously about buying a recumbent which
> should I consider? My current hot pick is the HPV Grasshopper. Any others I should consider?

Loads. There's no shortage of 20/20s, and you should try as many as you can. And you should also try
different configurations as they may surprise you (for more on this, note that Guy's Stinger is the
result of a trip to buy a trike, and also see my next post describing a weekend trip to the NL).

For trying them out, the Usual Suspects are Future Cycles in Surrey, Bikefix and London Recumbents
in the Smoke, D-Tek in Cambridge and Kinetics in Glasgow. Depending where you are, a trip to the
continent may be worth considering (again, see my post on this last weekend).

> My commute is 4 miles each way (or 8 if I avoid The Hill) and is all on-road but I ride further
> for fun as well. I need underseat steering and would be looking to get a Rohloff hub gear.

The Rohloff is a standard option on all the HP-Vels but places like Kinetics also Know About
Rohloffs and can fit one to anything. They're less likely to be standard options on the Dutch ones
'cause there's just no point for the most part in the NL.

> 1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting
> changed. Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent? Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is cycling
> wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra on
> weekdays?

Very much depends on the design. For a 4 mile utility commute bike I'd actually have a good hard
look at the Spirit. It's very much a get on and ride off sort of thing, no SPuDs, lycra etc.
required and it'll work fine in day to day clothes. For lower stuff like the other HPVels I'd
definitely want SPuDs or SPuD-u-likes (I use ATACs). I wouldn't want to use the Spirit for a long
hard tour or the like, but horses == courses and it should be an excellent utility bike.

> 2. What's this 'leg suck' I've read about on merkin 'bent sites?

Dunno. Whatever it is, I've never suffered from anything I can think it would be in about 4 or 5
years of regular 'bent riding, so it can't be that serious!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Not Responding] wrote:

> My commute is 4 miles each way (or 8 if I avoid The Hill) and is all on-road but I ride further
> for fun as well. I need underseat steering and would be looking to get a Rohloff hub gear.
>
> I rather like the idea of a trike but reckon the Windcheetah is a bit OTT pricewise (for a 4 mile
> commute) and the Trice seems unreasonably low to the ground.

Moreover, Windcheetahs cannot be had with either hub gears or USS. There are approximately a
gazillion different model of Trice, though, with new ones coming out about once a fortnight, so
while the Micro is lower than an adder's armpit, the Explorer is comparatively lofty. I've commuted
into central London on both a Windcheetah and a Trice Micro, and neither was too scary.

> 1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting
> changed. Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent? Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is cycling
> wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra on
> weekdays?

Clipless pedals are not compulsory but they /are/ a very very good idea. As an alternative, consider
Powergrips, which are sort of Toestraps With Attitude.

> 2. What's this 'leg suck' I've read about on merkin 'bent sites?

Foot comes adrift from pedal, strikes road and stops. [B|tr]icycle doesn't. Things tear and break. I
have not done it myself, but have read of enough instances that I cannot recommend it...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

"[Not Responding]" <not_responding@dev.null.invalid> wrote in message news:<i2e2301v9d5rdvq9gjosvahc5q21bq61od@4ax.com>...

> I rather like the idea of a trike but reckon the Windcheetah is a bit OTT pricewise (for a 4 mile
> commute) and the Trice seems unreasonably low to the ground.

Don't write it off before trying it. I lust after a Trice. Unfortunately, having just laid out
roughly the price of one on a fiddle for young Mark, Trices would not appear to figure prominently
in my immediate future.

> 1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting
> changed. Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent? Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is cycling
> wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra on
> weekdays?

Lycra isn't necessary, but expecting to wear a smart suit and shoes might be pushing it a bit. If
you can get away with slightly more casual clothes and shoes that could pass for trainers then SPDs
are the thing. You can walk around quite happily in the shoes on flat ground.

One more passing thought: as your medical condition effectively prevents you riding an upright,
should the compassionate insurance company that expected you to pay for the damage to your
assailant's bonnet not be funding your new 'bent?

--
Dave...

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, [Not Responding] <not_responding@dev.null.invalid> wrote:

> In case my wife reads this, I am only window shopping

Yeah. And window-test-riding in March, eh?

> I rather like the idea of a trike but reckon the Windcheetah is a bit OTT pricewise (for a 4 mile
> commute) and the Trice seems unreasonably low to the ground.

There are tall trice and low trice. I commute (in Surrey commuter belt) on a Trice XL (supposedly
eXtra Low, but there are more than one available lower now). Contrary to what everyone that's never
ridden one will tell you - they are not so low as to be dangerous. In fact, while on an upright on
my route I expect about one near-miss a month that could possibly be attributed to not being seen,
I've had fewer than one a year on the Trice.

Or is it ground clearance that you're concerned about? I ride mild off-road (tracks) on mine without
trouble. You might be able to run aground, but the location of teh low point between the wheels
makes it actually surprisingly difficult (I think you'd need to drop both font wheels into separate
potholes).

What could count against a trike is if a large proportion of your commute features filtering down
traffic queues on narrow roads. I avoid doing so on teh Trice, and on one particular queue (a short
one) on my route I wouldn't fit.

> 1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting
> changed. Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent? Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is
> cycling wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra
> on weekdays?

Use clipless pedals. Do not use leather soled shoes. Otherwise, I find my trice (mesh seat) more
compatible with normal clothes than an upright. Having said that, for my commuting I wear lycra and
change at the office - I find it more compatible with teh vagaries of teh English weather.

> 2. What's this 'leg suck' I've read about on merkin 'bent sites?

Foot comes off pedals. Foot strikes road and stops. Cyclist runs foot over, generally featuring
snapping of things that shouldn't snap and sundry other nastinesses. Compound fracture, that sort of
thing. Use clipless pedals.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:4031D96B.6080201@dundee.ac.uk...
> [Not Responding] wrote:
cut..............
> The Rohloff is a standard option on all the HP-Vels but places like Kinetics also Know About
> Rohloffs and can fit one to anything. They're less likely to be standard options on the Dutch ones
> 'cause there's just no point for the most part in the NL.
>
> --
> Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells
> Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
> http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Cut.... When considering trikes I contacted the Optima factory about having a Rohloff hub factory
fitted to a new rider trike Very prompt reply from them saying they would do it, quoting a
suprisingly low surcharge for this.

Seriously thinking about it, but then a virtually unused trice at half price became available. peter

Thanks for this and all the the other informative responses.

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:16:17 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004, [Not Responding] <not_responding@dev.null.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In case my wife reads this, I am only window shopping
>
>Yeah. And window-test-riding in March, eh?
>
>> I rather like the idea of a trike but reckon the Windcheetah is a bit OTT pricewise (for a 4
>> mile commute) and the Trice seems unreasonably low to the ground.
>
>There are tall trice and low trice. I commute (in Surrey commuter belt) on a Trice XL (supposedly
>eXtra Low, but there are more than one available lower now). Contrary to what everyone that's never
>ridden one will tell you - they are not so low as to be dangerous. In fact, while on an upright on
>my route I expect about one near-miss a month that could possibly be attributed to not being seen,
>I've had fewer than one a year on the Trice.
>
>Or is it ground clearance that you're concerned about? I ride mild off-road (tracks) on mine
>without trouble. You might be able to run aground, but the location of teh low point between the
>wheels makes it actually surprisingly difficult (I think you'd need to drop both font wheels into
>separate potholes).
>
>What could count against a trike is if a large proportion of your commute features filtering down
>traffic queues on narrow roads. I avoid doing so on teh Trice, and on one particular queue (a short
>one) on my route I wouldn't fit.

Er, it's none of the above. It's an attack of vanity and a desire to limit any perceived
eccentricity. Riding an upright is seen as odd enough. Riding a trike would be odder still. The
lowness of the trikes and the almost totally prone position just compounds matters.

>> 1. On my normal bike I'm a utility rider and don't believe in working up a sweat or getting
>> changed. Is this approach going to be workable on a 'bent? Are SPD shoes compulsory? Is
>> cycling wearing a suit and leather soled shoes feasable or will I have to start wearing lycra
>> on weekdays?
>
>Use clipless pedals. Do not use leather soled shoes. Otherwise, I find my trice (mesh seat) more
>compatible with normal clothes than an upright. Having said that, for my commuting I wear lycra and
>change at the office - I find it more compatible with teh vagaries of teh English weather.
>

The English weather has never managed to chuck anything at me that couldn't be defeated by head to
foot goretex and a pair of overshoes.

The problem with getting changed for small commutes is that you spend twice as long changing as you
do travelling.

Ian Smith wrote:

> available lower now). Contrary to what everyone that's never ridden one will tell you - they are
> not so low as to be dangerous.

Indeed. #1 question/statement I get is about vulnerability from low altitude, but I've yet to
encounter any 'bent rider who's experienced a problem with it. When I haven't been seen it's not
because I've been lower but because the Fool in question didn't look, and I know they didn't because
I watched them not doing it! You can miss a double decker bus in dayglo yellow with 50 KW of
lighting if you're looking the other way...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Peter Clinch <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
> Ian Smith wrote:
>
> > available lower now). Contrary to what everyone that's never ridden one will tell you - they are
> > not so low as to be dangerous.
>
> Indeed. #1 question/statement I get is about vulnerability from low altitude, but I've yet to
> encounter any 'bent rider who's experienced a problem with it. When I haven't been seen it's not
> because I've been lower but because the Fool in question didn't look, and I know they didn't
> because I watched them not doing it! You can miss a double decker bus in dayglo yellow with 50 KW
> of lighting if you're looking the other way...

Well, I have had people _claim_ they didn't see me. However, since they pulled out into teh
other lane to go round the me they didn't see immediately before swerving in at me, I discounted
the claims.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, [Not Responding]
<not_responding@dev.null.invalid> wrote:
> Thanks for this and all the the other informative responses.
>
> On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:16:17 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >Use clipless pedals. Do not use leather soled shoes. Otherwise, I find my trice (mesh seat) more
> >compatible with normal clothes than an upright. Having said that, for my commuting I wear lycra
> >and change at the office - I find it more compatible with teh vagaries of teh English weather.
>
> The English weather has never managed to chuck anything at me that couldn't be defeated by head
> to foot goretex and a pair of overshoes.

Two foot deep floods spring to mind.

Anyway, I was thinking more of a ride that starts off (say) sleeting and then warms up. Or one where
it's cold but still and there's alternate steep climbing and descending. Or one where I promise
myself I'll take it easy, but I just feel too alive to potter and find myself pushing for another
mph up the hill, or racing teh train to teh bridge, or whatever. In tehse or many other cases I can
go from chilly to sweating and back quite quickly in normal clothes. Lycra and layers lets me adjust
more quickly en-route (I'll happily quickly stuff a fleece under a pannier strap, I might balk at
doing teh same with a pure new wool suit jacket), and if I know I'm going to get changed afterwards,
I'll live with getting a bit sweaty towards the end of teh ride.

Furthermore, I actually tend to find myself more comfortable in pertex over lightweight layers and
some dampness gets through than a full hermetically-sealed goretex job.

Despite all of which, I do ride in normal clothes if it's up to about 15 miles, I don't want to look
odd at the other end and tehre's no simple changing facilities.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:04:53 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
<ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote:

>Two foot deep floods spring to mind.

I was once driving home late on Christmas eve in Cairo after a rare but torrential downpour. An
underpass had flooded to a depth of about 12 inches, and as I watched, a nattily dressed young
Egyptian in a cream suit and white patent leather shoes zipped past the *very* slowly moving cars
and straight into it on a motorbike. He'd got to the deepest part when his motor spluttered and
died, and watching him trying to keep an almost stationary motorbike upright without putting his
feet into the muddy water reduced all of us to helpless giggles.

--

Debbie Urban Theology Unit, Sheffield Views expressed in this email are my own and are not
necessarily those of the University of Sheffield or UTU.