FREEMAP: free mapping for walkers/cyclists + a couple of questions - Page 4

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:39:04 +0000, Gawnsoft
<xlucid@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:16:55 -0000, "Russ"
><russellspamjunknothanks@tiscali.co.uk> wrote (more
>or less):
>
>>You're not doing much more than using grid refs to
>>transfer to a graphical representation and as such there
>>can be no argument that you are (not) in contrvention of
>>copyright, but it's a fairly useless exercise in terms of
>>rights of way and therefore a mute point.
>
>Aaaargh!! /MOOT/ point! /MOOT/ point!
>
><pant, pant>

Don't you mean Pedant Point?

..and what's with the italicised capitals?

(I claim mine ;-)

>Okay, venting rant over. Sorry for any inconvenience.

nee wurries man, wen yuv gotte bloa yuv jus got tee


SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:39:04 +0000, Gawnsoft
<xlucid@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:16:55 -0000, "Russ"
><russellspamjunknothanks@tiscali.co.uk> wrote (more
>or less):
>
>>You're not doing much more than using grid refs to
>>transfer to a graphical representation and as such there
>>can be no argument that you are (not) in contrvention of
>>copyright, but it's a fairly useless exercise in terms of
>>rights of way and therefore a mute point.
>
>Aaaargh!! /MOOT/ point! /MOOT/ point!
>
><pant, pant>

Don't you mean Pedant Point?

..and what's with the italicised capitals?

(I claim mine ;-)

>Okay, venting rant over. Sorry for any inconvenience.

nee wurries man, wen yuv gotte bloa yuv jus got tee


SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:29:36 +0000, Nick Hopton <hopton@dsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

>In a recent message
><57db8bde.0403100402.4ce56e71@posting.google.com>, Dave
>Kahn <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote.
>
>>> I've just bought Fugawi UK (South), which has a feature
>>> that allows you to draw a track on an OS map and then
>>> send it as track points to a GPS.
>>
>>I don't know how good the software is, but for a mapping
>>company the name is inspired. :-)
>
>That is, I'm told, exactly where the name came from!

Now you're talking in the sort of riddles that imply
strangely peculiar handshakes will follow; wotchoo two on
about?


SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:26:21 +0000, <Steve Orrell> wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:29:36 +0000, Nick Hopton
> <hopton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>> In a recent message
>> <57db8bde.0403100402.4ce56e71@posting.google.com>, Dave
>> Kahn <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote.
>>
>>>> I've just bought Fugawi UK (South), which has a feature
>>>> that allows you to draw a track on an OS map and then
>>>> send it as track points to a GPS.
>>>
>>> I don't know how good the software is, but for a mapping
>>> company the name is inspired. :-)
>>
>> That is, I'm told, exactly where the name came from!
>
>
> Now you're talking in the sort of riddles that imply
> strangely peculiar handshakes will follow; wotchoo two
> on about?

Don't you ever ask yourself, "Where the fugawi?"

Colin
--

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:26:21 +0000, in
<1rcu40ppr5ghb9q8o8dt18fke8b8cnlsvv@4ax.com>, Steve Orrell wrote:

>Now you're talking in the sort of riddles that imply
>strangely peculiar handshakes will follow; wotchoo two
>on about?

I assume it's along the lines of "Where the fugawi now?"

--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:26:21 +0000, Steve Orrell wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:29:36 +0000, Nick Hopton
><hopton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>In a recent message
>><57db8bde.0403100402.4ce56e71@posting.google.com>, Dave
>>Kahn <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote.
>>
>>>> I've just bought Fugawi UK (South), which has a feature
>>>> that allows you to draw a track on an OS map and then
>>>> send it as track points to a GPS.
>>>
>>>I don't know how good the software is, but for a mapping
>>>company the name is inspired. :-)
>>
>>That is, I'm told, exactly where the name came from!
>
>Now you're talking in the sort of riddles that imply
>strangely peculiar handshakes will follow; wotchoo two
>on about?

The name comes from the popular expression, frequently
uttered when lost, "Where the Fugawi?"
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:32:42 -0000, "Colin Blackburn"
<colin.blackburn@durham.ac.uk> wrote:

<doh!> and here's me thinking it a reference it referrred to
some strange Norse god of Safe Pasage or somesuch.

>> Now you're talking in the sort of riddles that imply
>> strangely peculiar handshakes will follow; wotchoo two
>> on about?
>
>Don't you ever ask yourself, "Where the fugawi?"

Akshally, no. I'm more a "oh, don't be daft we're not lost,
its over here" sort of man meself... admittedly tho' it
doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well.


SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

"Colin Blackburn" <colin.blackburn@durham.ac.uk> writes:

>On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:26:21 +0000, <Steve Orrell> wrote:

>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:29:36 +0000, Nick Hopton
>> <hopton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>>> In a recent message
>>> <57db8bde.0403100402.4ce56e71@posting.google.com>, Dave
>>> Kahn <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote.

>>>>> I've just bought Fugawi UK (South), which has a
>>>>> feature that allows you to draw a track on an OS map
>>>>> and then send it as track points to a GPS.

>>>> I don't know how good the software is, but for a
>>>> mapping company the name is inspired. :-)

>>> That is, I'm told, exactly where the name came from!

>> Now you're talking in the sort of riddles that imply
>> strangely peculiar handshakes will follow; wotchoo two
>> on about?

>Don't you ever ask yourself, "Where the fugawi?"

A question which can be easily answered by carrying a small
portable signpost labelled "You are here".

--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

> Reminds me of autoroute before Microsoft bought it. Is the
> idea for people to submit their own data to you based on
> their own local area?

Yes, that's the plan (see elsewhere on the thread). Will
post again once the site is fully prepared for this.

Thanks for all the replies, Nick

In news:nh6u40tjkquoo1cllamjlspgtpsgrk0t6f@4ax.com,
Gawnsoft <xlucid@users.sourceforge.remove.this.antispam.net> typed:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:16:55 -0000, "Russ"
> <russellspamjunknothanks@tiscali.co.uk> wrote (more
> or less):
>
>> You're not doing much more than using grid refs to
>> transfer to a graphical representation and as such there
>> can be no argument that you are (not) in contrvention of
>> copyright, but it's a fairly useless exercise in terms of
>> rights of way and therefore a mute point.
>
> Aaaargh!! /MOOT/ point! /MOOT/ point!
>
> <pant, pant>
>
> Okay, venting rant over. Sorry for any inconvenience.
>
Sorry, I can't hear anything. Were you saying
something there?

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:50:06 +0000, Steve Orrell wrote:

>Akshally, no. I'm more a "oh, don't be daft we're not lost,
>its over here" sort of man meself... admittedly tho' it
>doesn't quite roll off the tongue as well.

Glider pilots are never lost, just temporarily uncertain
of position.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. -
Mark Twain

in message <KZl4qqAQZyTAFwjK@local.mail>, Nick Hopton
('hopton@dsl.pipex.com') wrote:

> In a recent message
> <57db8bde.0403100402.4ce56e71@posting.google.com>, Dave
> Kahn <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote.
>
>>> I've just bought Fugawi UK (South), which has a feature
>>> that allows you to draw a track on an OS map and then
>>> send it as track points to a GPS.
>>
>>I don't know how good the software is, but for a mapping
>>company the name is inspired. :-)
>
> That is, I'm told, exactly where the name came from!

It is, of course, derived from the name of a pigmy tribe
from the savannahs of Africa, who run through the tall grass
occasionally leaping into the air and crying in their shrill
voices "we're the Fugawi". But you knew that.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When your hammer is C++, everything begins to
look like a thumb.

I still link to streetmap, but with instructions on how to
get at the
1:50k data.

Richard Webb

>>need it. There's an argument that it should be available
>>for free, as, I believe, is the case in the US.
>
> I've heard this argument a lot before and while I have
> some sympathy with it I wonder how far you'd take this -
> should WH Smith be giving the OS maps away for free in
> their high street stores? should the tax payer *continue*
> to finance the OS so that the few who want its products
> can benefit at the expense of the many who don't need
> them? It's apolitical argument, personally I like to
> choose where I spend my money rather than have it forcibly
> taken away from me and have a politician choose where it's
> spent, others may differ but digital mapping is hardly a
> necessity like say education or the health service.

The free software movement makes the distinction between
free as in "free beer" and free as in "free speech" and istm
that this is applicable here as well : What many people want
to do is, for instance, to illustrate a favourite walk on a
website with extracts from OS maps, or print off their own
copies in say A3 format for use during a walk. Both of these
are prohibited by the OS even if you've paid for the digital
maps by buying eg Fugawe.

There is obviously a necessity for the OS to be able to
charge for _some_ products they make so as to cover the
costs. Paper maps and the continuing re-survey of
developments spring to mind.

Equally obviously, prior to privatisation the OS was funded
through taxation and istm that I have paid for, and
therefore own, the data produced up to that point so it
should be available for free.

I think that at some point not too far in the future it will
be sufficiently simple to digitise aerial photographs using
a computer and maybe at this point mapping will become
available that is free in both senses of the word.

> Personally, given that the OS licence of the software
> products available is a tiny fraction of the cost of the
> cost of the software which gives huge added value as well
> I don't have a problem with paying the equivalent of a
> coupe of tanks of petrol for mapping of the whole of the
> South of GB (most of England) or the cost of a playstation
> game for my locality covering
> 1/16th of GB.

I agree that the cost is not extortionate but you are not
free to use the data as you wish once you have bought it.

--
Boo

Thank you for that.

I have never bought a 1:50,000 map. Since I don't use
1:50,000 scale maps, I cannot comment on what constitutes a
fair pricing at that scale. For me and I'd guess most
walkers the minimum level of detail required is 1:25,000.
If we do a price comparison for the 1:25,000 scale and take
the Peak District as a randomly chosen example, we find
that the price is £80 at Anquet and £99.95 at Memory Map.
However, one can buy both 1:25,000 paper OS maps of the
area from Amazon for £11.18 total. Given that all of OS's
base dataset is now digital, I do regard the electronic map
to be extortionately priced versus the printed version of
the same data.

As an aside, the Ordnance Survey has also been accused of
restrictive practises, such as applying very onerous
copyright and licensing restrictions to paper map users,
software users and software companies.

The OS have a monopolistic position in the UK. Maybe
(hopefully) there is some increasing competition, but it is
still very limited at the moment. Some have argued that the
gathering of geographic data is a natural monopoly. If so,
there are two common models for such an organisation. The
service can indeed be financed by the taxpayer with the
resulting data made available to all. Alternatively, it can
be run as a commercial business with its services and
pricing controlled by an independent Regulator. One can
argue the pros and cons of each model for users and for the
economy as a whole. (You'll be pleased to know that I'm not
going to!)

A personal views: Before I buy OS digital maps, I'd want to
see much lower pricing of the 1:25,000 scale versions. I'd
also want to be sure that the licensing terms, software
compatibility, use with software upgrades, etc., were all
clearly published and reasonable.

As for Freemap, I don't know how useful the concept will
become, but am happy to wish the site owner all the best.

>
> OK that was over the top and I apologise but given what
> you get how on
earth
> do you feel that the digital OS data is extortionate
> monopolistic pricing, any cheaper and it'd be free in
> comparison with other software or similar products.
>
> Russ