FAQ: Welcome to uk.rec.walking [monthly posting]

Archive-Name: uk/walking/intro
URL: http://www.blencathra.org.uk/ukrw/index.html
Posting Frequency: Monthly

Welcome to the uk.rec.walking newsgroup
=======================================

Last modified on 28th February 2003. Also available
online at:

<http://www.blencathra.org.uk/ukrw/index.html>

This is a monthly introductory posting intended to aid
newcomers to the _unmoderated_ newsgroup uk.rec.walking -
a Usenet forum for the discussion of topics related
primarily to walking in the UK and Ireland. The newsgroup
was originally created in the summer of 1995 and this
monthly "Welcome" has been posted since 01-01-98
following discussion among the regulars at that time.

WHILST THIS IS GENERALLY AGREED BY THE POSTERS TO
uk.rec.walking IT IS STRICTLY UNOFFICIAL AND SHOULD BE
USED FOR GUIDANCE ONLY. If you have any queries
regarding this then I am quite prepared to give my
personal view by email
- but my view is worth no more than anyone else
posting here.

The original charter for uk.rec.walking can be found at:

<http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.rec.walking.html>

======================================================
Proposed changes to this or any other uk.* newsgroup are
published in news:uk.net.news.announce, a moderated, low
traffic newsgroup, which you are recommended to
subscribe to. Details of elections to the UK Usenet
Committee, which normally start in September of each
year, are also found there. Discussion on new groups and
changes takes place in uk.net.news.config. Further
information can be found at:

<http://www.usenet.org.uk>
======================================================

It is probably a good idea to lurk [read the postings]
for a couple of weeks so that you get a feel for the
ambience of the newsgroup before posting yourself. For
general netiquette queries it is worth subscribing to
[and reading!] news.announce.newusers.

We have a small number of generally accepted guidelines:

1 Strictly speaking,

ALL ADVERTS ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE CHARTER

However, by custom we are tolerant of occasional
Personal For Sale adverts. Any such postings
should be preceded with FS so those who wish to
filter them may do so.

THE REPETITION OF ADVERTS IS NOT WELCOME

2 Please keep your line length to 70 characters [plain
text] to assist readers whose terminals cut longer lines
so that a post becomes almost meaningless.

3 No binaries or MIME encoded messages.

4 Please post in Plain Text not with HTML. MS Outlook
[Express] defaults to HTML. You can change this by using
the Menu choice Tools/Options/Send and selecting 'Plain
Text for News and E-mail'.

5 A double dash and space separator is the standard
signature separator - this can cause problems when
replying if a double dash is used for anything but a
signature in the original. It is appreciated if you snip
unnecessary quotation when you reply to a posting.

6 Remember that some postings are cross-posted to/from other
newsgroups so your response may be read elsewhere.

Some subjects may cause heated debate but they are
usually resolved amicably which is why this is such a
successful group.

The kind of topics covered here include: Problems with
blisters/boots etc. Queries and debate regarding the
interpretation of footpath law. Requests for advice on a
Long Distance Path. Details of an enjoyable walk and trip
reports [TR]. Information about walking related web
sites. Recommendations for accommodation/equipment/maps
etc. Compasses and navigation. Maps - see <http://www.old-
maps.co.uk> for 19th century maps of most of the UK.

PLEASE NOTE: Requests by new subscribers for information
regarding the National Three Peaks - Ben Nevis, Scafell
Pike and Snowdon - are likely to receive a somewhat
unexpected response. Before posting any such request,
please see: <http://www.blencathra.org.uk/ukrw/n3pc.html>

If your query is better answered in the online FAQ or
elsewhere, someone will almost certainly point you in the
right direction.

If you are also interested in climbing you might
like to try:

uk.rec.climbing

Other newsgroups of probable interest include:

uk.rec.natural-history uk.rec.birdwatching
rec.backcountry uk.rec.caving uk.rec.camping

The expanded version of this posting is available on:

<http://www.blencathra.org.uk/ukrw/index.html>

This also contains a link to past postings available on
Google [formerly Deja]

For posting photographs and other items of interest,
Carol Haynes has provided a group site for
uk.rec.walking:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukrw/>

Paul Saunders has compiled a photo gallery of the posters
to uk.rec.walking which can be found at:

<http://www.wilderness-
wales.co.uk/urw/index.html>

Adrian Marsh Tupper provides a monthly stats roundup of
the newsgroup postings at:

<http://www.highscotland.co.uk>

The URL takes the form:
<http://www.highscotland.co.uk/urwnov01.htm> using the
first three letters of the month and last two digits
of the year.

He also has Munro Bagging on the Web at:

<http://www.highscotland.co.uk/mindex.htm>

A series of answers to FAQs [Frequently Asked Questions]
is being compiled on:

<http://www.blencathra.org.uk/ukrw/faq.html>

At present it contains links to help you with queries
regarding: Lists of walking related web sites LDPs Gear A
Friendly Welcome - food and drink British Isles flora and
fauna Walking/climbing screensavers

The Boots FAQ has been revised by Chris Gilbert and
Graham Drabble. It is posted every 21 days and is
available at:

<http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sjoh1646/urw-boot.txt>

Of course, how this can be developed depends on the
subscribers.

If you want to see general advice from walking-related
organisations see:

The British Mountaineering Council
<http://www.thebmc.co.uk> The Mountaineering Council
of Scotland <http://www.mountaineering-
scotland.org.uk> The Scottish Rights of Way and Access
Society <http://www.scotways.com>
<mailto:info@scotways.com> The Ramblers Association
<http://www.ramblers.org.uk>

And finally - one response in a thread entitled "Why do
you walk?":

"The views of distant summits, the smell of
wilderness heather, the grasp of rock and branch
in the hand, the blowing of the wind, the shining
of the sun, the solitude, the emptiness, the
peace, the quiet, the shine of sunlight on
speckled ice, the crisp feel of fresh snow under
boot, the freshness of the mountain burn, the
tenderness of the foot, the dampness of the whole
spinal area, the scratching of the midge bite,
the inaccuracy of the weather forecast, the thick
cloud from two thousand feet, the rain, the cold,
the distant beep of GPS, the rattling click of
walking poles, the smell of insect repellent, the
mud that's deeper than it looks, the leaking
water bottle, the sting of untethered drawcord,
the tension of annoying walking partner, the
coach party on top of Ben Lomond, the getting
back down, the comfortable car seat, the removal
of the boots, the sigh, the relaxation, the pint
of cold beer, the "I was up there" feeling.

I guess it's just good fun."

Copyright Colin MacDonald,
ukrw, 02/11/99

--
Philip Powell Looking north across the Derwent Valley and
Northumberland to The Cheviot

blablabla

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:28:44 +0200, theo wrote:

>blablabla
>
It's the other one you should ignore! This is the
official welcome.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the
"Westminster Gasworks"
95/284 5/219 c.100/300 (>900m with drop>100m )

theo wrote:

> blablabla
>
>
>

Is the third time the charm?

Katherine

"Phil Cook" <u-r-walk@p-t-cook.RfErMeOeVsEeCrAvPeS.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:u1cee0h6h0lo4qk2oon6uev4siq8855qm9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 23:28:44 +0200, theo wrote:
>
> >blablabla
> >
> It's the other one you should ignore! This is the official
> welcome.

Sorry, but I'm getting sick and tired of this personal
vendetta's. I would describe as 'typical Dutch'.

Theo

theo wrote

> Sorry, but I'm getting sick and tired of this personal
> vendetta's.

It's not a personal vendetta, as such, Theo. Philip's FAQ is
a regular posting and while Philip built it and looks after
it we've all pretty much had a hand in approving its
content. A part of that content is a rebuttal of a stream of
rabid anti-conservation posts that we receive regularly in
this forum among others from a crackpot who goes by the name
of Angus MacMillan. The inclusion of a warning about Angus'
posts is reasonable because its easy to get involved in
trolling flame war with him. Angus, on the other hand,
objects so strongly to being highlighted in the FAQ that he
has chosen to attack Philip through this forum. So, it's
only one way, if you see what I mean.

Chris

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:52:35 GMT, "Chris Gilbert"
<chris_gilbert@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>theo wrote
>
>> Sorry, but I'm getting sick and tired of this personal
>> vendetta's.
>
>It's not a personal vendetta, as such, Theo. Philip's FAQ
>is a regular posting and while Philip built it and looks
>after it we've all pretty much had a hand in approving its
>content. A part of that content is a rebuttal of a stream
>of rabid anti-conservation posts that we receive regularly
>in this forum among others from a crackpot who goes by the
>name of Angus MacMillan. The inclusion of a warning about
>Angus' posts is reasonable because its easy to get involved
>in trolling flame war with him. Angus, on the other hand,
>objects so strongly to being highlighted in the FAQ that he
>has chosen to attack Philip through this forum. So, it's
>only one way, if you see what I mean.

For a *Welcome* post, it is most unwelcoming.

It seems to be saying, "If you want to ask a question don't
unless you have been reading the group for at least 2
weeks." and it gives a lot of value judgements.

Perhaps is was a reasonable *Welcome* in 1998, but now the
proportion of people new to Usenet is low, and making value
judgements on how to post is less appropriate.

A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome to
ask a question related to walking.

C L Imber wrote:

> For a *Welcome* post, it is most unwelcoming.
>
> It seems to be saying, "If you want to ask a question
> don't unless you have been reading the group for at least
> 2 weeks." and it gives a lot of value judgements.
>
> Perhaps is was a reasonable *Welcome* in 1998, but now the
> proportion of people new to Usenet is low, and making
> value judgements on how to post is less appropriate.
>
> A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome to
> ask a question related to walking.

When I first came across Usenet about 2 years ago I found
the Welcome Post both helpful & instructive.

Bernie

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 13:31:22 +0100, C L Imber
<cliff.Imber@nospam.tumble.net> wrote:

>
>It seems to be saying, "If you want to ask a question
>don't unless you have been reading the group for at least
>2 weeks."

What's wrong with that? Or do you think it should be
longer than 2 weeks? ISTR lurking for a couple of months
before posting.
>
>Perhaps is was a reasonable *Welcome* in 1998, but now the
>proportion of people new to Usenet is low

What makes you think that? Presumably there's some evidence
somewhere? My guess given the continuing rise in new
computer owners would have been the opposite. And the
impression I get reading this forum is that there are many
new posters.

>
>A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome to
>ask a question related to walking.

Indeed they should. They should also be prepared for some
sarcastic replies if the question has been asked every week
for the past 5 years ;-)

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 13:50:47 +0100, Bernie Hughes
<berniehughes@notlikely.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>C L Imber wrote:
>
>> For a *Welcome* post, it is most unwelcoming.
>>
>> It seems to be saying, "If you want to ask a question
>> don't unless you have been reading the group for at least
>> 2 weeks." and it gives a lot of value judgements.
>>
>> Perhaps is was a reasonable *Welcome* in 1998, but now
>> the proportion of people new to Usenet is low, and making
>> value judgements on how to post is less appropriate.
>>
>> A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome
>> to ask a question related to walking.
>
>When I first came across Usenet about 2 years ago I found
>the Welcome Post both helpful & instructive.

That's not entirely contrary to what I have said.

Did you find the post welcoming?

Do you think the nannying of two years ago is still as
appropriate today given that the proportion of new entrants
to Usenet is so much lower?

Simon Caldwell <simonjcaldwell@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:87tge0dou327gt7hve6dn0lft0qdpptp7i@4ax.com:

> What makes you think that? Presumably there's some
> evidence somewhere? My guess given the continuing rise in
> new computer owners would have been the opposite. And the
> impression I get reading this forum is that there are many
> new posters.

Mine too.

Having been rather quiet for a while, I'm now trying to get
a grip on who the new regulars are.

--
Adrian

Simon Caldwell wrote:

>> It seems to be saying, "If you want to ask a question
>> don't unless you have been reading the group for at least
>> 2 weeks."
>
> What's wrong with that? Or do you think it should be
> longer than 2 weeks? ISTR lurking for a couple of months
> before posting.

I seem to recall posting pretty much straight away when I
discovered the group, but I think I spent some time
searching through previous posts first to see if the
information I wanted was already there. In fact that's my
standard practice when visiting somewhere new. Check
previous/existing posts and FAQs for the information I want.
If I can't find it then I'll ask.

> And the impression I get reading this forum is that there
> are many new posters.

I agree.

>> A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome
>> to ask a question related to walking.
>
> Indeed they should. They should also be prepared for some
> sarcastic replies if the question has been asked every
> week for the past 5 years ;-)

I'm sure there was an instance not so long ago when I wrote
one of my excessively long posts about some GPS accuracy
tests that I'd done, going into great detail about the
issue. A couple of days later some newbie asked; "Does
anyone know how accurate GPS is?".

And that's not the only example, it happens repeatedly.
Makes you wonder if their newsreader has even downloaded the
list of previous threads.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 22:24:19 +0100, Simon Caldwell
<simonjcaldwell@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>What makes you think that? Presumably there's some evidence
>somewhere? My guess given the continuing rise in new
>computer owners would have been the opposite. And the
>impression I get reading this forum is that there are many
>new posters.

It's not the increase in computer ownership that you should
look at by the rate of increase.

>>A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome to
>>ask a question related to walking.
>
>Indeed they should. They should also be prepared for some
>sarcastic replies if the question has been asked every week
>for the past 5 years ;-)

And if their question has not been answered every week for
the last five years?

C L Imber wrote on Sun, 04 Jul 2004 19:40:13 +0100....
> [...] given that the proportion of new entrants to Usenet
> is so much lower?

Is it? Why? Who collects the statistics?

--
Tim Jackson news@winterbourne.freeserve.invalid (Change
'.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct) Absurd patents:
visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

C L Imber wrote:

> Simon Caldwell <simonjcaldwell@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> And the impression I get reading this forum is that there
>> are many new posters.
>
> It's not the increase in computer ownership that you
> should look at by the rate of increase.

Maybe he got the impression from the number of new
posters...

>>> A casual visitor to this group should feel most welcome
>>> to ask a question related to walking.
>>
>> Indeed they should. They should also be prepared for some
>> sarcastic replies if the question has been asked every
>> week for the past 5 years ;-)
>
> And if their question has not been answered every week for
> the last five years?

Trust me, it has been answered.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749