THE FAQ: Welcome to uk.rec.walking [test posting]

(test post to validate content and size, apologies all
round. Please do not adjust your filters, normal service
will be resumed as soon as possible)

This replaces the biased, self opinionated blow job
drivel that the

This FAQ can be posted by anyone, amended by anyone at any
time, there is no designee for FAQs, please feel free to
add, alter or amend any or all of it.

Welcome to the uk.rec.walking newsgroup
=======================================

Last modified on 28th February 2003.

This is a monthly introductory posting intended to aid
newcomers to the _unmoderated_ newsgroup uk.rec.walking -
a Usenet forum for the discussion of topics related
primarily to walking in the UK and Ireland. The newsgroup
was originally created in the summer of 1995 and this
monthly "Welcome" has been posted since 01-01-98
following discussion among the regulars at that time.

WHILST THIS IS GENERALLY AGREED BY THE POSTERS TO
uk.rec.walking IT IS STRICTLY UNOFFICIAL AND SHOULD BE
USED FOR GUIDANCE ONLY. If you have any queries regarding
this then we will be quite happy to assist you, just ask,
please remember opinions given are worth no more or less
than anyone else posting here, except Powell of course.
He's a prat and doesnt count. He often attempted to shut
down UEC and start his own newsgroup, no one rallied to
his whimper on either count, so he sulked and left.

The original charter for uk.rec.walking can be found at:

<http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.rec.walking.html>

We have a small number of generally accepted guidelines:

1 Strictly speaking,

ALL NET NANNIES ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE
CHARTER

THE REPETITION OF NET NANNY whinging IS
NOT WELCOME

2 Please keep your line length to 70 characters [plain
text] to assist readers whose terminals cut longer lines
so that a post becomes almost meaningless.

3 No binaries or MIME encoded messages.

4 Please post in Plain Text not with HTML. MS Outlook
[Express] defaults to HTML. You can change this by using
the Menu choice Tools/Options/Send and selecting 'Plain
Text for News and E-mail'.

5 Signatures can be any length

6 Remember that some postings are cross-posted to/from other
newsgroups so your response may be read elsewhere.

Some subjects may cause heated debate but they are
usually resolved amicably which is why this is such a
successful group.

The kind of topics covered here include: Problems with
blisters/boots etc. Queries and debate regarding the
interpretation of footpath law. Requests for advice on
a Long Distance Path. Details of an enjoyable walk and
trip reports [TR]. Information about walking related
web sites. Recommendations for
accommodation/equipment/maps etc. Compasses and
navigation. Maps - see <http://www.old-maps.co.uk> for
19th century maps of most of the UK.

PLEASE NOTE: Requests by new subscribers for information
regarding the National Three Peaks - Ben Nevis, Scafell
Pike and Snowdon - are most welcome

If your query is better answered in the online FAQ or
elsewhere, someone will almost certainly point you in the
right direction.

If you are also interested in climbing you might
like to try:

uk.rec.climbing

Other newsgroups of probable interest include:

uk.rec.natural-history uk.rec.birdwatching
rec.backcountry uk.rec.caving uk.rec.camping

This also contains a link to past postings available on
Google [formerly Deja]

For posting photographs and other items of interest,
Carol Haynes has provided a group site for
uk.rec.walking:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukrw/>

Paul Saunders has compiled a photo gallery of the posters
to uk.rec.walking which can be found at:

<http://www.wilderness-
wales.co.uk/urw/index.html>

Adrian Marsh Tupper provides a monthly stats roundup of
the newsgroup postings at:

<http://www.highscotland.co.uk>

The URL takes the form:
<http://www.highscotland.co.uk/urwnov01.htm> using the
first three letters of the month and last two digits
of the year.

He also has Munro Bagging on the Web at:

<http://www.highscotland.co.uk/mindex.htm>

At present it contains links to help you with queries
regarding: Lists of walking related web sites LDPs Gear A
Friendly Welcome - food and drink British Isles flora and
fauna Walking/climbing screensavers

The Boots FAQ has been revised by Chris Gilbert and
Graham Drabble. It is posted every 21 days and is
available at:

<http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sjoh1646/urw-boot.txt>

Of course, how this can be developed depends on the
subscribers.

If you want to see general advice from walking-related
organisations see:

The British Mountaineering Council
<http://www.thebmc.co.uk> The Mountaineering Council
of Scotland <http://www.mountaineering-
scotland.org.uk> The Scottish Rights of Way and Access
Society <http://www.scotways.com>
<mailto:info@scotways.com> The Ramblers Association
<http://www.ramblers.org.uk>

And finally - one response in a thread entitled "Why do
you walk?":

"The views of distant summits, the smell of
wilderness heather, the grasp of rock and branch
in the hand, the blowing of the wind, the shining
of the sun, the solitude, the emptiness, the
peace, the quiet, the shine of sunlight on
speckled ice, the crisp feel of fresh snow under
boot, the freshness of the mountain burn, the
tenderness of the foot, the dampness of the whole
spinal area, the scratching of the midge bite,
the inaccuracy of the weather forecast, the thick
cloud from two thousand feet, the rain, the cold,
the distant beep of GPS, the rattling click of
walking poles, the smell of insect repellent, the
mud that's deeper than it looks, the leaking
water bottle, the sting of untethered drawcord,
the tension of annoying walking partner, the
coach party on top of Ben Lomond, the getting
back down, the comfortable car seat, the removal
of the boots, the sigh, the relaxation, the pint
of cold beer, the "I was up there" feeling.

I guess it's just good fun."

Copyright Colin MacDonald,
ukrw, 02/11/99

British Mountain Lists

The Peak Bagging Phenomenon The allure of mountain lists is
a very British phenomenon. This is a brief introduction to
the various British mountain lists. These lists are
concerned primarily with the mountains, hills and fells of
2000 ft and above. Peak bagging is often used as a
derogatory term for walkers and mountaineers who appear to
show more interest in the list than the mountain. However,
it is quite possible to combine a deep love for the
mountains and an interest in completing a list. Indeed, the
target of completing a list can encourage the walker to get
out into some of the more remote areas of our islands.
Anyone who has completed a list will, at the very least,
have a good knowledge of the area covered.

Mountaineering Lists There are numerous mountain lists -
every walker could compile his or her own based on
individual criteria. It is my intention to outline the best-
known of the eponymously named lists and others with, where
available, online links.

Munros

The best-known of lists is the Munros. This list was first
recorded by Sir Hugh Munro in the September 1891 issue of
the Scottish Mountaineering Club Journal. An original
member of the club, he set himself the task of recording
all the Scottish peaks over 3000 ft - before then it was
thought the number was little over 30. The original Munro
Tables contained 538 tops of over 3000 ft, of which 283
were considered distinct mountains. Unfortunately, Munro
never made clear the criteria he used and the Tables have
undergone periodic revision, the latest being in the
summer of 1997.

A 'Munroist' is a mountaineer who has successfully ascended
the complete list of separate Mountains. Munro himself never
did become a 'Munroist' as he died with two left to climb:
the Innaccessible Pinnacle, which thwarted him on two
occasions, and Carn Cloich- mhuillin, the Munro nearest his
home which he was saving until last.

Munros (284)
http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Li...sByRegion.html
and Tops (511).
http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/MunroTops.html

Corbetts

Following on from Munro, J. Rooke Corbett (the fourth man to
complete the Munros) compiled a list of Scottish hills
between 2500 and 3000 ft. Although he never made explicit
the criteria he used, it seems clear that his only test was
a re-ascent of 500 ft on all sides - regardless of distance
covered or the difficulty of the terrain. This list differs
from Munro's in that it does not purport to contain every
summit between 2500 and 2999 ft in Scotland. Corbetts.
http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Corbetts.html

Grahams

The obvious extension to the Corbetts was a list of those
Scottish hills between 2000 and 2500 ft that fulfilled the
criteria of a 500 ft re-ascent on all sides. This was done
independently by both Fiona Graham and Alan Dawson. They
eventually met to finalise a definitive list and agreed that
it should be termed the Grahams. Tragically, Fiona Graham -
whose real name was Helen Torbett - was murdered whilst on a
hillwalking holiday in the Highlands. Grahams.
http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Grahams.html

Donalds

The third list of Scottish hills was that compiled by Percy
Donald, a list of the hills in the Scottish lowlands above
2000 ft. In this list there were 133 'Tops' of which 86 were
considered separate 'Hills' according to the criteria laid
down by Donald. This list were later redefined by Alan
Dawson using a simple drop rather than Percy Donald's
complicated formula. Donalds.

Marilyns

The list of Marilyns was compiled by Alan Dawson. He defined
a Marilyn as being any hill:

"that has a drop of at least 150 metres on all sides,
regardless of distance,absolute height or topographical
merit." At the last count there were 1542 Marilyns.
Marilyns. http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Marilyns/-
chapter4.htm

Wainwrights

Probably the best known list of English summits is the
Wainwrights. This refers to the 214 Lakeland fells ascended
by the late Alfred Wainwright and described in his seven
volume series 'A Pictorial Guide To the Lakeland Fells'. The
one great advantage this list has over all others is that
there can never be any dispute as to which fells are
included. No fells will be demoted or added due to
resurveying. It also differs from the other lists in that
just over one-third of the fells are below 2000 ft and one,
Castle Crag, is below 1000 ft. Wainwright wrote an eighth
volume - 'The Outlying Fells of Lakeland' - which contained
102, mainly lower, fells around the periphery of the Lake
District. These can be included in much the same way that
the Munro Tops are.

The Lakeland Summits

Tim Synge has published a survey of the fells of the Lake
District National Park (The Lakeland Summits by Tim Synge -
Sigma Leisure 1995 [ISBN: 1 85058 446 X]). This lists 256
fells and 645 tops above the 300 metre contour line - and
Castle Crag! There is no online version of the list
available. Irish 600m Tops

Joss Lynam has recently revised the list of Irish 600m Tops.
Irish 600m Tops
http://www.mountaineering.ie/feature...0/l600main.htm

------------------------------------------------------------
-----------

The National Three Peaks Challenge

The Challenge The aim of the National Three Peaks Challenge
is to reach the summits of the highest mountain in Scotland
(Ben Nevis), England (Scafell Pike) and Wales (Snowdon)
within 24 hours.

Many people do this as a way of raising funds for various
charities in which case guidelines drawn up by the Institute
of Charity Fund Managers must be followed.

Information regarding a successful attempt on the Challenge
can be found at:

http://www.ands.co.uk/3peaks/index.shtml

The Objections There are a number of objections or
reservations regarding the Challenge that have been voiced
in uk.rec.walking, you should be aware of these objections
before you raise the subject.

Many old farts like Philip Powell consider the three peaks
"theirs" and are trying hard to get it changed. We think it
should be open to anyone and discussion is encouraged to
educate the selfish twats.

-------------------------------------------

The hills and mountains of Great Britain are abound with
natural beauty and splendour. They insinuate an air of
romantisism and mystique; the deep valleys hiding centuries
of history tucked away in small age-old villages, hamlets
and farms.

http://www.summitjourneys.co.uk/

--------------------------------------
The main uk.rec.walkers page

http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/urw/index.html

============================================

Past UKRW posts http://tinyurl.com/yr6wd

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 11:04:44 +0200 (CEST), starwars
<nobody@tatooine.homelinux.net> wrote:

>(test post to validate content and size, apologies all
>round. Please do not adjust your filters, normal service
>will be resumed as soon as possible)
>
>This replaces the biased, self opinionated blow job
>drivel that the

>
>This FAQ can be posted by anyone, amended by anyone at
>any time,
there
>is no designee for FAQs, please feel free to add, alter or
>amend any or all of it.
>
> Welcome to the uk.rec.walking newsgroup
> =======================================
>
> Last modified on 28th February 2003.
>
>
> This is a monthly introductory posting intended to aid
> newcomers to the _unmoderated_ newsgroup uk.rec.walking
> - a Usenet forum for the discussion of topics related
> primarily to walking in the UK and Ireland. The
> newsgroup was originally created in the summer of 1995
> and this monthly "Welcome" has been posted since 01-01-
> 98 following discussion among the regulars at that time.
>
> WHILST THIS IS GENERALLY AGREED BY THE POSTERS TO
> uk.rec.walking IT IS STRICTLY UNOFFICIAL AND SHOULD BE
> USED FOR GUIDANCE ONLY. If you have any queries
> regarding this then we will be quite happy to assist
> you, just ask, please remember opinions given are worth
> no more or less than anyone else posting here, except
> Powell of course. He's a prat and doesnt count. He often
> attempted to shut down UEC and start his own newsgroup,
no
> one rallied to his whimper on either count, so he sulked
> and left.
>
> The original charter for uk.rec.walking can be found at:
>
> <http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.rec.walking.html>
>
> We have a small number of generally accepted guidelines:
>
> 1 Strictly speaking,
>
> ALL NET NANNIES ARE FORBIDDEN BY THE
> CHARTER
>
> THE REPETITION OF NET NANNY whinging IS
> NOT WELCOME
>
> 2 Please keep your line length to 70 characters [plain
> text] to assist readers whose terminals cut longer lines
> so that a post becomes almost meaningless.
>
> 3 No binaries or MIME encoded messages.
>
> 4 Please post in Plain Text not with HTML. MS Outlook
> [Express] defaults to HTML. You can change this by using
> the Menu choice Tools/Options/Send and selecting 'Plain
> Text for
News
> and E-mail'.
>
> 5 Signatures can be any length
>
> 6 Remember that some postings are cross-posted to/from
> other
> newsgroups so your response may be read elsewhere.
>
> Some subjects may cause heated debate but they are
> usually resolved amicably which is why this is such a
> successful group.
>
>
> The kind of topics covered here include: Problems
> with blisters/boots etc. Queries and debate regarding
> the interpretation of footpath law. Requests for
> advice on a Long Distance Path. Details of an
> enjoyable walk and trip reports [TR]. Information
> about walking related web sites. Recommendations for
> accommodation/equipment/maps etc. Compasses and
> navigation. Maps - see <http://www.old-maps.co.uk>
> for 19th century
maps
> of most of the UK.
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Requests by new subscribers for information
> regarding the National Three Peaks - Ben Nevis, Scafell
> Pike and
Snowdon -
> are most welcome
>
> If your query is better answered in the online FAQ or
> elsewhere, someone will almost certainly point you in
> the right direction.
>
> If you are also interested in climbing you might like
> to try:
>
> uk.rec.climbing
>
> Other newsgroups of probable interest include:
>
> uk.rec.natural-history uk.rec.birdwatching
> rec.backcountry uk.rec.caving uk.rec.camping
>
>
> This also contains a link to past postings available on
> Google [formerly Deja]
>
> For posting photographs and other items of interest,
> Carol Haynes has provided a group site for
> uk.rec.walking:
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ukrw/>
>
>
> Paul Saunders has compiled a photo gallery of the
> posters to uk.rec.walking which can be found at:
>
> <http://www.wilderness-
> wales.co.uk/urw/index.html>
>
>
> Adrian Marsh Tupper provides a monthly stats roundup of
> the newsgroup postings at:
>
> <http://www.highscotland.co.uk>
>
> The URL takes the form:
> <http://www.highscotland.co.uk/urwnov01.htm> using the
> first three letters of the month and last two digits of
> the year.
>
> He also has Munro Bagging on the Web at:
>
> <http://www.highscotland.co.uk/mindex.htm>
>
>
>
> At present it contains links to help you with queries
> regarding: Lists of walking related web sites LDPs Gear
> A Friendly Welcome - food and drink British Isles flora
> and fauna Walking/climbing screensavers
>
> The Boots FAQ has been revised by Chris Gilbert and
> Graham Drabble. It is posted every 21 days and is
> available at:
>
> <http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sjoh1646/urw-boot.txt>
>
> Of course, how this can be developed depends on the
> subscribers.
>
> If you want to see general advice from walking-related
organisations
> see:
>
> The British Mountaineering Council
> <http://www.thebmc.co.uk> The Mountaineering Council
> of Scotland <http://www.mountaineering-
> scotland.org.uk> The Scottish Rights of Way and
> Access Society <http://www.scotways.com>
> <mailto:info@scotways.com> The Ramblers Association
> <http://www.ramblers.org.uk>
>
> And finally - one response in a thread entitled "Why do
> you walk?":
>
> "The views of distant summits, the smell of
> wilderness heather, the grasp of rock and branch
> in the hand, the blowing of the wind, the
> shining of the sun, the solitude, the emptiness,
> the peace, the quiet, the shine of sunlight on
> speckled ice, the crisp feel of fresh snow under
> boot, the freshness of the mountain burn, the
> tenderness of the foot, the dampness of the
> whole spinal area, the scratching of the midge
> bite, the inaccuracy of the weather forecast,
> the thick cloud from two thousand feet, the
> rain, the cold, the distant beep of GPS, the
> rattling click of walking poles, the smell of
> insect repellent, the mud that's deeper than it
> looks, the leaking water bottle, the sting of
> untethered drawcord, the tension of annoying
> walking partner, the coach party on top of Ben
> Lomond, the getting back down, the comfortable
> car seat, the removal of the boots, the sigh,
> the relaxation, the pint of cold beer, the "I
> was up there" feeling.
>
> I guess it's just good fun."
>
> Copyright Colin MacDonald, ukrw,
> 02/11/99
>
>
>
>British Mountain Lists
>
>
>The Peak Bagging Phenomenon The allure of mountain lists
>is a very British phenomenon. This is a brief
>introduction to the various British mountain lists. These
>lists are concerned primarily with the mountains, hills
>and fells of 2000
ft
>and above. Peak bagging is often used as a derogatory term
>for walkers and mountaineers who appear to show more
>interest in the list than the mountain. However, it is
>quite possible to combine a deep love for
the
>mountains and an interest in completing a list. Indeed, the
>target of completing a list can encourage the walker to get
>out into some of
the
>more remote areas of our islands. Anyone who has completed
>a list will, at the very least, have a good knowledge of
>the area covered.
>
>
>Mountaineering Lists There are numerous mountain lists -
>every walker could compile his or her own based on
>individual criteria. It is my intention to outline the best-
>known of the eponymously named lists and others with, where
>available, online links.
>
>Munros
>
>The best-known of lists is the Munros. This list was
>first recorded
by
>Sir Hugh Munro in the September 1891 issue of the Scottish
>Mountaineering Club Journal. An original member of the
>club, he set himself the task of recording all the Scottish
>peaks over 3000 ft - before then it was thought the number
>was little over 30. The original Munro Tables contained 538
>tops of over 3000 ft, of
which
>283 were considered distinct mountains. Unfortunately,
>Munro never made clear the criteria he used and the Tables
>have undergone
periodic
>revision, the latest being in the summer of 1997.
>
>A 'Munroist' is a mountaineer who has successfully ascended
>the complete list of separate Mountains. Munro himself
>never did become a 'Munroist' as he died with two left to
>climb: the Innaccessible Pinnacle, which thwarted him on
>two occasions, and Carn Cloich- mhuillin, the Munro nearest
>his home which he was saving until last.
>
>Munros (284) http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Munro-
>sByRegion.html and Tops (511).
>http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/MunroTops.html
>
>
>Corbetts
>
>Following on from Munro, J. Rooke Corbett (the fourth man
>to complete the Munros) compiled a list of Scottish hills
>between 2500 and 3000 ft. Although he never made explicit
>the criteria he used, it seems clear that his only test was
>a re-ascent of 500 ft on all sides - regardless of distance
>covered or the difficulty of the terrain. This list differs
>from Munro's in that it does not purport to contain
every
>summit between 2500 and 2999 ft in Scotland. Corbetts.
>http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Corbetts.html
>
>Grahams
>
>The obvious extension to the Corbetts was a list of those
>Scottish hills between 2000 and 2500 ft that fulfilled the
>criteria of a 500
ft
>re-ascent on all sides. This was done independently by both
>Fiona Graham and Alan Dawson. They eventually met to
>finalise a definitive list and agreed that it should be
>termed the Grahams. Tragically, Fiona Graham - whose real
>name was Helen Torbett - was murdered
whilst
>on a hillwalking holiday in the Highlands. Grahams.
>http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Grahams.html
>
>Donalds
>
>The third list of Scottish hills was that compiled by Percy
>Donald, a list of the hills in the Scottish lowlands above
>2000 ft. In this
list
>there were 133 'Tops' of which 86 were considered separate
>'Hills' according to the criteria laid down by Donald.
>This list were later redefined by Alan Dawson using a
>simple drop rather than Percy Donald's complicated
>formula. Donalds.
>
>
>Marilyns
>
>The list of Marilyns was compiled by Alan Dawson. He
>defined a
Marilyn
>as being any hill:
>
>"that has a drop of at least 150 metres on all sides,
>regardless of distance,absolute height or topographical
>merit." At the last count there were 1542 Marilyns.
>Marilyns. http://www.gla.ac.uk/Subject/Hill/Lists/Marilyns-
>/chapter4.htm
>
>Wainwrights
>
>Probably the best known list of English summits is the
>Wainwrights. This refers to the 214 Lakeland fells ascended
>by the late Alfred Wainwright and described in his seven
>volume series 'A Pictorial
Guide
>To the Lakeland Fells'. The one great advantage this
>list has over
all
>others is that there can never be any dispute as to which
>fells are included. No fells will be demoted or added due
>to resurveying. It also differs from the other lists in
>that just over one-third of the fells are below 2000 ft and
>one, Castle Crag, is below 1000 ft. Wainwright wrote an
>eighth volume - 'The Outlying Fells of Lakeland' -

>which contained 102, mainly lower, fells around the
>periphery of the Lake District. These can be included in
>much the same way that the Munro Tops are.
>
>
>The Lakeland Summits
>
>Tim Synge has published a survey of the fells of the Lake
>District National Park (The Lakeland Summits by Tim Synge -
>Sigma Leisure 1995 [ISBN: 1 85058 446 X]). This lists 256
>fells and 645 tops above the 300 metre contour line - and
>Castle Crag! There is no online version of the list
>available. Irish 600m Tops
>
>Joss Lynam has recently revised the list of Irish 600m
>Tops. Irish 600m Tops
>http://www.mountaineering.ie/feature...0/l600main.htm
>
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>-----------
-
>
>The National Three Peaks Challenge
>
>The Challenge The aim of the National Three Peaks Challenge
>is to reach the summits of the highest mountain in Scotland
>(Ben Nevis), England (Scafell Pike) and Wales (Snowdon)
>within 24 hours.
>
>Many people do this as a way of raising funds for various
>charities
in
>which case guidelines drawn up by the Institute of Charity
>Fund Managers must be followed.
>
>Information regarding a successful attempt on the Challenge
>can be found at:
>
>http://www.ands.co.uk/3peaks/index.shtml
>
>The Objections There are a number of objections or
>reservations regarding the Challenge that have been voiced
>in uk.rec.walking, you should be
aware
>of these objections before you raise the subject.
>
>Many old farts like Philip Powell consider the three peaks
>"theirs" and are trying hard to get it changed. We think it
>should be open to anyone and discussion is encouraged to
>educate the selfish twats.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
>The hills and mountains of Great Britain are abound with
>natural beauty and splendour. They insinuate an air of
>romantisism and mystique; the deep valleys hiding centuries
>of history tucked away in small age-old villages, hamlets
>and farms.
>
>http://www.summitjourneys.co.uk/
>
>
>--------------------------------------
>The main uk.rec.walkers page
>
>http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk/urw/index.html
>
>============================================
>
>Past UKRW posts http://tinyurl.com/yr6wd

This is not the only newsgroup the prick powell has tried to
infiltrate with an opinionated FAQ, trying to pretence an
air of decency. Mabbett is another sock puppet of his, same
obnoxious style, content and misleading information based on
a psychotic leaning.

I say well done for getting rid.