More hate from your "holy" BushCo pastor - Page 3

FWIW Some Russian Marxists did predict the downfall. Too bad that many people are too flat headed to see the lie behind rich people telling them that capitalism is the be all and end all.

Nuking a couple of hundred thousand civillians before Hitler got his hands on an Atom Bomb is not anything to be proud of.

Besides the Germans didn't have the luxury of a sizeable % of GDP and research facilities located a few thousand miles behind the front lines. I'm glad they didn't succeed, but I would be even happier if the Manhattan project failed as well.

Today in Russia people blame Gorbachev. They were happy about the idea of glasnost and openess, the liberation of political prisoners and easing of tensions with the west but very unhappy over the fall of the USSR. What was needed was a reform of communism; maybe a transition from communism to socialism would have been an option.
The thing is capitalism doesn't have such a bright future. Capitalism, through the greed it provokes, had always caused wars. Iraq is just one example of this. Marxist ideology dictates capitalism will inevitably destroy itself since markets and profit lead us to abandon logic to greed and desire for ever more raw products and riches. But the planet can only take so much pollution, bombing, industry and chemical waste.
Most of the great thinkers of the century preferred communism or socialism to capitalism, including Einstein, Trotsky, Lenin and others. Lenin spoke several languages and read countless books (often in French) while Bush seems a simpleton by comparison.
Maybe this will explain why we won't all be forming a queue in years to come to take a glimpse at a mummified Bush in the equivalent of Red Square. A great thinker Junior ain't and neither is Blair, for that matter.

no twist needed, just look at the demographics involved, of the many who send money to your boy pat, what percentage of them voted for bush?
and what percentage of those endorse these views?
and how many more have no sense of outrage at these concepts and the outgrowths of them that prevail with bushco supporters today?
too bad for them it is as illegal to snipe a leader as it is to invade countries on deceptive basis...

your sense of intrigue then, seems overreached.

Pat needs to be reminded of the scripture that states only God has a right to take a life.

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How about the Bush supporter's sense of stupidity and excuse-making, instead of a sense of integrity and responsibility.

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"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.

So tell us when did these men come to the US. Paperclip brought the scientist over AFTER the war. My recollection, of course it may be different from yours, is the bomb was tested and used before the war was over and before Paperclip. So please try again and tell us how the US stole the A-bomb from the Germans. I'd like to know since the Germans never got past the heavy water manufacturing phase.

Never said capitalism is the be all end all. But it works way better than communism. If communism is such a great economic system why are the Chinese turning to free markets?

No comment on Krushchev's dark past? Why not? Come on and tell us more about Saint Krushechev.

This is your argument that Russia is better. First in space. First woman in space. Hmmmmm when did the Russians land on the moon?

Any system will come undone where human error is involved and the same applies to capitalism. Too many people assume capitalism is working but by what standards is capitalism to be judged? Food for thought: How many capitalist countries compare with the U.S., France or Japan? Isn't it the case the majority have never gotten themselves out of the poverty trap (Nicaragua, Africa, Brazil, Egypt e.t.c.)?
Add to that the massive prison population in the U.S.A., the gangs and impoverished on the streets, the huge discrepancy in distribution of money and corruption through greed e.t.c. Not a very good recommendation for a system that's supposed to work. This is apparently the best capitalism has to offer?
Now take communist Russia. The USSR economy grew far more rapidly that the U.S. economy during the early years. Crime was unheard of and there were no gangs on the streets. Living standards weren't too brilliant but education, accessibility to medical care and social security were way beyond what the U.S. could offer. No Russian ever went homeless as housing was provided.
However, despite these successes the Russians over-extended themselves, giving vast gold resources and billions and billions of roubles to other communist countries. They overdid spending on arms. Above all, they failed to update the whole system through perestroika. Had the Russians paid more attention to domestic production as opposed to military and heavy industry, there would have been no instability that led to the collapse. There was gross mismanagement so the system failed.
But the same situation happens in capitalist countries as well. Look at how Argentina went bankrupt not too long ago as one example. Look at Germany with its growing unemployment through outsourcing.
I'm not arguing we should all return to the days of Krushchev. I just think communism needed radical reform to adapt to a changing world.

Limerickman is pointing out in some detail that the U.S. has been built through foreign expertise and the main merit of the U.S. has been to invest money in the said expertise and import foreigners. This extends all the way from sports to sciences and onwards.
Without Germany there would have been no rocket industry in the U.S.A. The only way the U.S. could compete with Russia back in those days was to import expertise from Europe. You even have Einstein to thank for the atom bomb and Einstein was Jewish (same as Lenin and Trotsky).

Great thinkers such as John Keynes, Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson would disagree. Tell us why the East Germans were so eager to tear down the Berlin Wall? The wall that St Krushy erected. Why was the Solidarity movement so strong in Poland? Why did Romania overthrow their communist leader? Why did all the eastern European nations abandon communism? Why is China turning from a communist economy to a free market based system. If communism is so good why are all these countries turning away from it. Why is Russia no longer communist? I guess Russia ran out of 5 year plans.

Yes, I stand by that view. The planned economic system is far superior to the free market. The problem your country presently has is linked to worldwide global economy. To be honest, the American economic model functions perfectly well under certain conditions. It worked very well in the fifties, sixties and seventies. Your low welfare and skeleton social protection model wasn't a problem when there was an abundance of jobs that people could pick and choose at random. But now you're in the same boat as the Germans since economic factors linked to other countries and economies have complicated matters.
Now imagine what would have happened if the USSR had stuck with the plan and simply reformed communism on the socialist model? They would only have had to wait for another fifty years or so till the capitalist system started to crack. Because the cracks predicted by marxists and intellectuals in Paris and Moscow many years ago are now starting to appear. Marxist objections to capitalism remain as valid as they ever were.

Really? Is that why the Russians baically copied the B-29? No rocket industry? Maybe you and Limmy never heard of Robert Goddard. But that doesn't fit into your argument. Please tell us who Goddard was.
Einstein. One of the great thinkers was smart enough to know that he no longer wanted to live in Europe any longer.

The Chinese haven't abandoned communism at all. In fact, orthodox communist theology allows capitalism to flourish under certain conditions. Lenin actually allowed free markets to continue within Russia in the early years. It was called the New Economic Policy or N.E.P.
The Chinese made it clear they need to reform communism starting from the economy and onwards. But they don't intend to dump it.
Now the next matter: Krushchev's past. I read his memoirs some years ago. He was actually there when the soldiers liberated German concentration camps and set thousands of Jews free. Thousands of these Jews found sanctuary within Russia and Krushchev denounced Stalin over those that were sent to gulags. I recall Krushchev testified they found whole heaps of womens' hair within the camps that the Nazis had gathered and Krushchev expressed his revulsion towards fascism, even back then.
He denounced the U.S.A. for giving sanctuary to Nazi scientists some time after this.
Krushchev was chucked out of office and retired due to his plans to liberalise and reform but also because he was seen as uneducated and too down-to-earth.
His son still lives in Moscow today.