Justice - Page 2

Pretty much what I was concluding and of course without knowing the facts I am in the dark about the childs state of mind at the time of the exchange.
The worst, I might assume, would be a wrongful death ruling which could result in no more than probation.He of course could be charged with a higher crime without being convicted of it.
This is of course based on US law.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Sure it makes a difference if he was singled out due to the colour of his skin. My view is people should be treated the same and nobody is better than anyone else. So it doesn't matter if a black man or a white man commits a crime where justice is concerned as either individual should be subject to the same laws and the same right to a fair trial. Don't you agree?
Of course, the same applies to gender and I think women should be paid the same as men if they do the same work and put in the same hours. I don't think people should be classed as better or worse due to gender or racial differences.

Here in the the USA I believe, the hitting the guy is an assault and battery, the falling and hitting his head was a accident.

He'd get manslaughter and the judge could be as hard or lenient as he wanted to be.

But, calling someone a racial epithet is a felony, so it would be complicated, to say the least.

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"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

Certainly I agree and that's why I would not differentiate even when telling the story,as in "a child was hit". Color matters not.
The more we point out the differences ,the more they are noted.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Muhammad Ali back in the sixties believed black people should have had their own state but there were reasons behind that view. First of all, black people came to the U.S. as slaves and sweated blood to build the economy which would indicate that black people are owed a decent future within the U.S. and have the same rights as white people.
Back then, black people were often refused service in coffee bars or had to take a back seat in the bus. So, while King favoured integration, Ali supported this idea of state where black folks could run their own show, so to speak. So, he wasn't for integration at that time.
Seeing as even Bush has been forced to admit black Americans are lagging behind whites in terms of prosperity, I wonder whether Ali was right? Or maybe he was just half-right.

A racial epithet is not a felony. A actual felony has to be committed before the racial factor has figured in the crime. "Hate-Crimes" are very hard to prove. There is not a crime in "name calling" unless the name caller has shown that there may be a threat of violence behind the name calling.
This is not a racial issue at all ....... Everybody gets called names. The "racial" card gets tossed around so much it has lost it's credibility in most of society.
There is sadness in this story. I doubt if the samoan wanted to really hurt the name caller more then just a painful black eye. But his actions , which are malicious, caused a death.
Where do we go with a situation like this?

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

And the "he was a nice guy" does not always carry water....... I have personally heard several responsible people say "he was such a nice guy" about John Wayne Gacy.

There are too few facts to make a real opinion here. {My opinions too lack knowledge of the case.}

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

Defining Hate Crimes
No longer a Black and White issueby Ricco Villanueva Siasoco

This article was posted on August 18, 1999.




"...Until justice rolls down like waters
and righteousness like a mighty stream."


Buford O. Furrow opened fire at a Jewish community center. The avowed White supremacist will be prosecuted for hate crimes.

These powerful words were uttered by Martin Luther King, Jr. in the midst of the racial unrest of the 1960s. Decades later, it seems the unrest of that period has resurfaced—but this time with a broader target. Last week's rampage on a Jewish community center in Los Angeles reminds us that crimes once driven solely by hatred for one's race now stem from opposition to one's religion, gender, disability, or sexual orientation.

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, a non-profit organization which tracks hate crimes, there were over 500 hate groups operating in the U.S. in 1998. The Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles tallies even more, monitoring over 2,100 hate sites on the Internet.

The term "hate crime" is a part of our everyday vernacular. But what's the definition of a hate crime? What are the issues facing legislators, law enforcement officials, and the American public?

More importantly, why the proliferation of these violent crimes?

Seeking a definition



The dictionary defines a hate crime as "any of various crimes... when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation)." But the term doesn't always carry a commonly understood meaning.

"What is really being punished, as [critics] see it, is a criminal's thoughts, however objectionable they may be. The actions - incitement, vandalism, assault, murder - are already against the law."

— Clyde Haberman

In the on-line magazine Slate, Eve Gerber writes, "The definition of a hate crime varies. Twenty-one states include mental and physical disability in their lists. Twenty-two states include sexual orientation. Three states and the District of Columbia impose tougher penalties for crimes based on political affiliation."

Evolution of hate crimes



In Hate Crimes: Criminal Law & Identity Politics, authors James B. Jacobs and Kimberly Potter recount the introduction of the term hate crime in 1985, coined in legislation centered around the Justice Department's collection of "hate crime statistics." The media picked up on the term and quickly began to write about an epidemic before these statistics had even been gathered.

Current legislation allows federal prosecution of a hate crime only if the crime was motivated by race, religion, national origin, or color. In addition, the assailant must intend to prevent the victim from exercising a federally protected right. The Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 1999, passed by the Senate in July 1999, seeks to expand federal jurisdiction over these crimes.

Controversial legislation



Dissenting opinions mar even a seemingly black and white issue such as hate crimes. Jacobs and Potter argue that hate crimes legislation is redundant, as these offenses are already punishable under the law.

Clyde Haberman of The New York Times described the views of hate crimes critics in a recent column. "What is really being punished, as they see it, is a criminal's thoughts, however objectionable they may be. The actions - incitement, vandalism, assault, murder - are already against the law."


The Internet has enhanced communication between isolated hate groups.Understanding perpetrators, victims



Last year the American Psychological Association issued the report Hate Crimes Today: An Age-Old Foe in Modern Dress. In the report Dr. Jack McDevitt, a criminologist, stated, "Hate crimes are message crimes. They are different from other crimes in that the offender is sending a message to members of a certain group that they are unwelcome."

The National Institute of Mental Health has funded the first major study of the consequences of hate crimes on victims, narrowing in on anti-gay hate crimes. Preliminary research indicates that hate crimes have more serious psychological effects than non-bias motivated crimes.

Lone wolves, strong packs



Understanding the nature of those who commit hate crimes may be the most difficult aspect to grasp. Contrary to the notion of hate group conspiracies, most offenders act as lone wolves: small cells, pairs, or individuals acting alone.

Identifying individuals planning hate crimes is a formidable task. One common trait is membership in a hate organization. The majority—and perhaps most recognizable—are fringe neo-Nazi or Ku Klux Klan groups, but some organizations such as the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC) have reached a level of positive acceptance. At a recent CCC's national conference, Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott— whose support of hate crimes legislation falters only because of its inclusion of homosexuality—was a keynote speaker.

Related LinksSummary of Hate Crime Statistics

Matthew Shepard (People in the News 1998)

Milestones in the Gay Rights Movement

Crime Index by State

Crime Data Web Sites

Southern Poverty Law Center

Human Rights Campaign

In fact, a copy of Hunter, a novel by William Pierce (the leader of the neo-Nazi National Alliance) was found with the belongings of Oklahoma City bomber McVeigh. Pierce, like others involved with hate groups, has cultivated ties with other white American ethnic groups within our borders and abroad.

The Internet has undeniably contributed to alliances among these hate groups. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center's estimates— more modest than the Simon Wiesenthal Institute's— hate sites rose from 163 web sites in 1997, to 254 in 1998.

Where do we go from here?



Changes in hate crime legislation— whether viewed favorably or negatively— are simmering. The Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 1999 was passed by the Senate, and awaits a vote in the House.

In the words of Vice President Al Gore: "We must send a clear and strong message to all who would commit crimes of hate: it is wrong, it is illegal, and we will catch you and punish you to the full force of our laws."




Information Please® Database, © 2005 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.

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"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

I used the racial content to illustrate the circumstances of the crime as opposed to suggesting that it should be dealt with differently because race was an issue. Would have been the same (IMO) if the guy had called him an Arsehole or a Prick or whatever. I just wanted to make it clear that the guy who died was looking for a fight and although he did not physically attack the young lad he was still the agressor.

If this story actually happened then the kid who punched out the 30 year old should be put in jail. for life! Why should we tolerate killers being on the loose? Who knows what else the samoan might do. He is too aggressive.

It of course was wrong to insult the kid racially but, come on... hitting someone for one word? What kind of a barbaric society we live in?

The racist dude got what he deserved though .

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Are you for real? Are you saying that every person who punches someone should go to jail for life?

reminds me of the fellow with whom i worked once, black and proud, wore an african continent red green and gold symbol around his neck.

heard him remark to someone one day "call me that again and i'll f*ck you up"
i presume the same reference was used here but i didn't hear it. this did indeed quell other incidents of the type.

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"i think it would be a good idea"

-mahatma gandhi, upon being posed the question
"what do you think of western civilization?"

I can definitely understand this concept of somebody letting fly a few punches in a given situation.
Not too long ago I was sitting with a friend in a coffee bar minding my own business and some drunken thug approaches us and begins to ask me for money and then soon becomes abusive and threatening.
I was sitting there taking deep breaths and counting to ten and my friend suggested we simply leave before something unpleasant happened.
Now, the question I would like to ask all of you is this: Just imagine you were in the same coffee bar with a girlfriend and a drunk comes up and insults her in front of you?
I think the answer to that one is 80 per cent of guys would react. However, girls have the advantage in such a scenario as they have less testosterone which makes them far less aggressive or prone to jungle, pecking-order responses.

Maybe going slightly off track but I heard on TV that biologically speaking females don't go for the new-age, pacifist type at all but tend to be attracted to the he-men types who can react to provocations. Not that I'm suggesting you should all go out and kill someone next time you're insulted.
What I am saying is that most males with a higher level of testosterone will react somehow to being insulted in public and that those who simply pick up a bunch of roses, make the peace sign and scuttle off don't reflect the ideal published in the old Charles Atlas advert - the one about getting sand kicked in your face and drying uip and blowing away.

Been there in a couple of cases. Most of the times the butt hole has backed down.
In one case I took a drunk to the ground,not by hitting him, but still prevented him from hitting an older gentleman who was the bar manager.
There are ways to disable a person without anger and without hurting them.
However it is hard to deal with a person on certain type of narcotics as they feel no and there adrenaline level is very high.
You must understand there were and are a few rednecks in my area.
BTW: Rednecks come in all colors ,shapes and sizes.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.