Justice - Page 3

100 hrs. of Community service Seriously.
As an aside:

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

What if he,the dead victim, left behind fatherless children with no means of support. Who then serves them.
I am not looking for an answer just reflection since we ,or at least I, do not have many facts in the matter.
100 hours in trade for 50 years of life ,sorry Dave too liberal for me to consider without all the facts.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Who asked him to have children &, more importantly, who asked him to go shooting off his mouth at an adolescent He's lucky to have lived as long as he did what w/ his neolithic outlook on the human race.

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Is there any other information relating to this case? I'm thinking that this was more than two people walking past each other and the only exchange (verbal or other) is "Nigger," and BOOM.
What's the history of both men? Did they know each other, previous relationship or conflicts?
While I don't know of any jurisdiction that has felony-name calling charges, there are some that have provisions for 'fighting words' or 'provoking words or gestures.'
What were they doing at 1am? Was it a school night for this 'school boy.'
Had either, or both, be using alcohol or other mind altering substances?
What race was the other guy? We've heard more lately about Nigger vs Nigga, and who is 'authorized' to say these words.
What was the cause of death, the punch or the pavement?

That's just a few of the question I'd like answers to before I'd make judgment calls.
It sounds like a sad case all around.

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Please, don't MOO at the cows. It only confuses them.

Don't know that he had kids and don't know that he had a bad outlook on others.
Maybe he was just having a bad day,I don't know.
I assume you then think it is ok to kill someone if they offend you.

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

You are correct. I am just going on w/ the information I was given (Man walks by boy & slings epithet-boy's fist meets mans face-mans face hits terra firma), albeit scant.

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

It appears that the young mans actions were only the precursor to the offending parties ultimate demise. He merely precipitated/accelerated the offensive gentleman's departure to the next plane of existence.

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Yes, we are all going to terminate sometime,I however would prefer tp delay that event as long as possible.
On that note I have some unattended beer that may be going out of date.
I shall return at a later time.
Waste not want not!

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Dope,when training and talent just aren't enough.

Ok, more info is at hand. Dead guy had 3 kids, all better off without them (That came from a Child welfare source). He was bloody lucky to live aslong as he did, his **** was saved atleast 3 times during that night alone and was evicted from atleast one bar. The dead guy and the lad did not know each other so yes it was "Nigger" (Not sure how it was said phyisicaly wise) and boom dead. As I said I know this lad and I would be surprised if he reacted to just being called nigger, I would guess the guy may have got in his face, but that is just a guess.

If the kid can plead self defence he should have a good chance of acquittal.The worst case scenario for him would be a manslaughter charge,and with regard for his good character and the provocation of the deceased,a moderate sentence.
Calling someone a "nigger" is undoubtededly an aggressive act.If the accused had no intention to kill the deceased and the prosecution cannot prove that intention then the murder charge will probably be down-graded to manslaughter.
In the circumstances I think young Daniel would be pretty unlucky to even be convicted of manslaughter.
This case has a number of parallels with the David Hookes case (where the accused was acquitted on the grounds of self-defence).
If the kid was responding to a perceived threat then he'll walk,and rightly so.

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Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!

Calling someone a "nigger" is not always an act of aggression .....It's commonly used in the black community towards each other. It is a word used frequantly in hip hop music or Rap ....
Hitting someone when not threatened by force is as barbaric as calling someone a "nigger" in a negativly way. Is it my understanding that the deceased is black?

It's a sign of stupidity, but not neccesary an aggressive act. Without having the facts of the behavior of the name caller before and after the name calling a serious discussion cannot be made.

However , what we do know is that the Samoan may have made an aggressive act. Whether or not the deceased was a good father is not important. He was a father. The Samoan's act caused 3 children to be fatherless. Of course, this is saying that he was not acting in a defensive manner of course.
My mother always told me that "Sometimes bad things happen to us when we do not think." I think this was the case with the Samoan.

Another angle to this is this ........Going with the few facts we do have , does the family have the right for a civil suit against the future earnings of the Samoan?

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

The family can take a civil action for loss of support,if the deceased was earning an income.If he was supporting his family on social security benefits then they don't have much of a case.

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Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!

Which brings up another subject . This may be hijacking this tread and maybe this is a subject for a complete new thread. The word 'nigger." I was raised in a city with a large black population. We were told not to use the words for several obvious reasons. In school where I had some interaction with blacks ,I rarely heard the word.
Today ....... it is used in the black community in everyday language. The hip-hop culture I think re-introduced this word to America mainstream. [I know it is used by people that would be considered racist, but for the sake of the discussion , let's leave them out of this.}
If this word is being used by a white man to describe a black man , either in a friendly way , or in a ugly way , is this a word that would offend a younger black? {I say young black because of the hip hop generation thing} And if it does offend them , would that guy be offended if it was used by a black man towards another black man?
basically, what is the status of this word today among the youth????

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"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

Ali used the word frequently and it sometimes came across as a kind of insult to those black opponents he accused of being an "Uncle Tom". Incidentally, any black guy who is called an Uncle Tom will get offended, since the term has to do with being a conformist.
What pissed Joe Frazier off back in the seventies was the way he was called an "Uncle Tom N++++r by Ali because he was depicted as a white man's champ in the way Joe Luis obviously was in his day.
Another thing I recall was Ali meeting a white opponent at a pre-fight conference and turning to the audience to say, "He just called me a n++++r!", which was basically a lie and done as a joke on the white opponent who had black friends and didn't appreciate the prank.
At any rate, common sense tells me this is a word not to use unless you use it with black friends you know won't take offence because you use the word as an in-joke. Otherwise the word reflects ignorance on the part of the speaker.
In Latin the word for black is "*****" so it probably comes from that and "candidus" I think is "white" or maybe "albus".

I agree w/ Carrerra. Over here in Virginia it is inappropriate for a white to address a black in such a manner UNLESS the white is an accepted member of the group present or the wider, hip-hop culture-EVEN THEN-he/she does so at thier own peril. It would be tantamount to a black addressing a white as "hey, slave-owner". I believe the majority of the rest of this country has similiar accepted standards of decency/decorum. Yell epithets & risk retaliation.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )