The US..a poor international citizen..again. - Page 2

No one, no country is made up of a bunch of Mother Teresa's. That's the facts of it.

Take it or leave it.....from the beginning of time til now....everything is all fecked up......even the Kennedys, the Bushes, the Nixons, the Carters, et al.
Stalin, Attila the Hun, Hitler, Von ribbentrop, Goebbels, Mussolini, you name it, there is plenty to go around; I don't have to get specific and beat up the Kennedy's.....I know where money is, it came from the blood of soldiers in some way, money laundering, bootlegging or whatever.....for lots of families with big money. Some do, some dont. It's not black and white.....there are shades of gray.

Only someone really fecked up wants to be a "leader" of a country anyway, if you want to know the truth.

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

Good point however you are talking about two generations ago (50yrs) This era cannot be remotely related to todays attitudes about civil-rights. The primary constituency whom consistently endorse equality under the law for all regardless of race, creed, or gender has consisitently been the n.eastern blue, democratically-controlled states.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

My own Uncle Babe, in WWII was stationed in Georgia, for basic training, along with some of his Brooklyn brethren and they were all court marshalled and docked 2 weeks pay because they wouldn't have any of that back of the bus ****.

They refused to comply and the MP's showed up and took the lot of them off to the brigg.

I am so proud of him and his Brooklyn buddies. May he rest in peace.

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

To my knowledge, President Kennedy DID NOT invite Mr. Kruschev to bring missiles to Cuba, well within range of demolishing our country. In those days we obviously were smarter then than now.

And furthermore, we did not go crying for a consortium of europeans nor the UN to do what had to be done.

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

Yes, that is true. The liberal base is defintly there in the NE. However, you have to ask yourself if they endorse all the "alternative" blocks of voters for the vote they are desperate to get.

It can also be pointed out the Democratic Party is in deep trouble because of the liberals in the NE. They simply do not represent the average Democratic in this country. It should also be pointed out that these individuals are the wealthy politicians in the country too.
Every Democratic liberal I know attempts to point out that "Bush" stole the election..... Everyone else understands why the Republicans have won the past 2 elections. The Republicans have nothing to do with the Democrats losing. The Democrats have themselves to look at.
I live in a heavy Democratic county. The Republicans are basically united. Republicans know who they are. The Democrats are divided among themselves. The big union vote does not back half of the Democratic agenda when it comes to civil rights. Then they cater to the young and minorities. The fact is minorities do not represent a very large voting block and the youth lie about voting. The youth say they vote, but the statistics show otherwise.
Then we have the big guy in town ..... The union vote. They are upset the Democrats want to support all the social programs that simply are not working. They are tired of being taxed.
And the Democrats in my town love using the race card. { It is a town known for minorities} But when you examine the leaders of the parties you notice that the Republicans have minorities representation. The Democrats do not. Of course the minorities that become Republican leaders get attacked for not being loyal to their race. Success in life is not a valued attribute in the Democratic Party. Unless you are from the NE where it is your legacy.
And the Democrats think it is because the Republican voters are stupid.

__________________
"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

he was not alone in this support, henry ford and bush's grandfather among them. at that time, it was looked upon as an appropriate business and diplomatic stance to take. as a business venture, dealing with germany was an ideal partnership on many lucrative terms, their economy was flourishing, technological advancements were rapidly developing, trade unions had been banned, this at a time when america was still reeling from the consequences of the robber baron era and their monoplies, and recovering from the great depression.

surely, in the present time, there are numerous business and political alliances that are in disregard of human rights concerns, just look at the activities of the us affiliation with multi-national corporations and their militarily supported political domination together with the exploitation of the resources of what are conveniently termed
"emerging nations".


remember, at that time, nazi germany was far less invasive than the present bush regime by any standard. there were many dealings with and harboring of nazis continuing after the fact by the us as well...

there is much in common with the present bush regime and the nazism of the afformentioned period, opposition was identified, vilified, and locked up, morality was stressed, abortion was banned, assets were seized, money previously spent for social services was directed towards military preparedness, censorship was imposed, leaders did not require approval of the people for government policy matters, and quasi-militaristic branches of the government were created to operate in secrecy.
intelligence was gathered on anyone remotely seen as undesirable to the state, an unaplologetic form of fierce nationalism was openly developed that would ultimately lead to internal and external acts of war.

if those who would forget the past are condemned to repeat it, the us need not look far for comparison...


[QUOTE=wolfix]Did you know that the Kennedy family was a supporter of Hitler? That he advised America not to go to war with Hitler when he was ambassador.

__________________
"i think it would be a good idea"

-mahatma gandhi, upon being posed the question
"what do you think of western civilization?"

You seem to be interested in civil rights. You should go back and examine Nixon's civil rights agenda. He made major inroads to true civil rights in this country during his term. He was the one who implemented de-segregated schools. Affirmitive action is possible today because of Nixon. His record is excellent. And yet, when Kennedy was elected everyone wondered as to why he had a change of heart. Most experts realized that Kennedy needed the black vote to beat Nixon. It wasn't because he wanted civil rights. His voting record would show that to be true. Previous to his presidency he voted against most civil rights acts. Matter of fact, other then his speeches, he did nothing as President to push the civil rights agenda. Nothing. So, Kennedy as a civil rights President is a urban myth. The truth is in the past 20 years Kennedy has been de-valued enormously as a good President.
People should never listen to a speech by a President. People should look at the policys he enacts.

__________________
"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."

kruschev denied these missiles were an act of provocation. this would seem laughable until we look at the amount of national resources the us invests in arms, all in the name of something, anything other than that as well...
you know, "stability in the region" and all that bill of goods we are being sold.

then as now, these big missiles are a more viable political ploy and profitable industry than military practicality, based on the whole mutual assured destruction scenario.

of course, the us taxpayer funded bush military seems bent on not only keeping the missiles forever, but also actually developing nukes for for tactical use, as proponents have stated with the typical hypocrisy we have come to expect, to "save lives".
www.stopthebombs.org/nuke/MiniNuke.html



[QUOTE=ptlwp]To my knowledge, President Kennedy DID NOT invite Mr. Kruschev to bring missiles to Cuba, well within range of demolishing our country. In those days we obviously were smarter then than now.

__________________
"i think it would be a good idea"

-mahatma gandhi, upon being posed the question
"what do you think of western civilization?"

I don't really know what the Kennedy's have got to do with the actual subject matter of the thread - America's lack of respect for international law,
but there you go.
For the record, I don't consider the Kennedy's to be any more moral than the Bush's.
Both of them are as corrupt/amoral as the other.

The fact of the matter though is that your country under it's current administration has placed itself in opposition to most Europe, China and Russia.
There is the thought that perhaps your country has gone into imperialist mode under this present administration.

I deal with many Americans in business life - I have met no one who has told me that they support that current administration.
Some of these people are centreist Republicans, others would be democrats.

My own view is that what is currently going on in your country, isn't political.
I believe that what is going on in your country is seismic.
The illegal and unethical invasion of a foreign country, the rhetoric and jingoism concerning other religions and nationalities, the complete disregard for victims of Katrina - indicate to me at least that your country is in a very precarious state.
It is important to the world to have a strong USA - to me it seems that your country is weakening.(and I don't take any satisfaction in saying this).

Take the issue over the Dubai Ports Co: Pennisular & Orient (P&O), a British company steeped in history, was taken over by the Dubai Port Co this year.
Dubai is an ally of the USA - always has been.
But because Dubai is in the Middle East - and is assumed to be Arab/Islamic -
suddenly it's acquiring of P&O poses a threat to US national security because PO control US ports.
This flaggrant xenophobia that has broken out over there - shows just how deep rooted and weakened your country has become.

Dubai is in the UAE.
I have transacted business there in Abu Dhabi in particular.
It's a Muslim country for sure.
But I can go to a Catholic Church there. I am allowed to drink alcohol there.
I am allowed to walk freely over there.
I could - if I wished to - have met with Sheikh Zaid when the people of the country were allowed to petition the Sheikh, in person, at various times in the year.

Dubai or the UAE is not a threat.
The acquisition of P&O is not a threat.

Unfortunately collective paranoia has taken grip in your country.
The Democrats are trying to out-Republic, the Republicans.
Respect for American citizens laws have been swept aside, respect for prisoners rights in Guantanemo are non-existant, respect for foreign sovereignity is non existant.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

I take issue with that : Kennedy faced down Mississipi and sent in the National Guard in 1962, AFTER HE WAS ELECTED IN 1960.
Kennedy drafted the Civil Rights Act - enacted in 1964.
Many politicians are perhaps coy about openly supporting policies prior to entering office.
After all wasn't it Bush who said that he wanted to be a President for peace and stability??

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it" - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

hmmm. forgive me for being a tad skeptical of your parenthetical statement.

In my opinion, there are much more dynamics involved in the port deal than you give credit to. Surely, there are some Americans who are against it in the way you describe. Also, many Americans do not care nearly as much one way or the other. The intensity of discussion in the Congress or in media does not always reflect the mood of the public exactly. The Congressman have a lot of political play in this thing. They are not only representing their constituents.
Many other Americans are against *any* foreign company operating the ports. They simply were not aware that it has been the case for a long time already because it's not the kind of thing the typical person thinks about every day and there has never been a prominent news story about it before. The vast majority of people I know who are against it are equally against a British or Venezuelan company operating any port as well. The Muslim factor does not play into their sentiment. They are simply a little uneasy in foreign companies have control of port operations. That, along with little recent confidence in many gov't agencies (homeland security, etc.) has resulted in the discussion. I think any sentiment towards Muslims is not much of an issue.

Of course I could be wrong. That's just my perception. I think the majority of it is political power plays in Washington. It is not the prominent topic on the street in America as much as it is in the aisles of Congress.

Equally important, you will find a surprising amount of Americans are against the port deal because they simply don't understand what is going on . Many believe the deal is to actually give *ownership* of the ports to the foreign companies. This of course is not the case. If it were the case, certainly you would understand why people don't want to sell parts of our country to foreign companies (aside from the fact that this happens in real estate markets all the time - I think you still would understand the sentiment). MANY Americans believe this is actually what is at stake based on how it has all been portrayed and how little these people may pay attention to the details of a thing.

The same person who indicated that he wanted to be a uniter, not a divider. We, you & I, know what category the current president falls into-the "dissembler" category. He picks an end result & then works backward to justify it.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

A fair few more than that. In excess of 2 Million Vietnamese died, I expect many of those were men.

__________________
Free Beer !

Kennedy needed the black vote. He could not win without it. During his terms as a Senator he voted against many civil rights bills. In drafting the civil rights bill was more for a vote then character values. He really did nothing to put enforcement in the bill. Something that was different back then was in politics it was not the Repubs vs the Dems as much as it was the north against the south. Kennedy was most known as President, but his impact was more of a Senator. The President that made major in roads to civil rights was Nixon. He actually pushed through civil right bills that actually affected the monorities in this country.

The reason I went here was because when you read Kennedys speeches they were very similar to Bush's. And it was Kennedy that promoted the military as "spreading the democracy" that the rest of the world has a problem with. And I agree with some of it. Because we are a capitolist country, we are aggressive. We use politicians to increase "democracy." To me , democracy means " open for business."

Bush is just a continuation of this.... It just was just during his term that 9/11 happened. Nothing was ever said when Clinton did the bombing and the average American citizen has very little knowledge of our involvment in the Serb/Croatian situation.

But , America gets attacked for reasons that are not true at times. An example...... After the devasting tidal wave last year the BBC reported that the American government gave less of it's GNP then any other country........ But what they should have reported if they were fair, was that the American public was the largest single contributor to the tidal wave victims. The American people gave on their own. But we know why they reported it as such.

We are not a perfect country. But then we are a large country, we are about 90% of the size of Europe. We are a very diverse country. And if you look at the problems Europe is having, America is no different.

The port deal is a political deal.... The Democrats are screaming that we mistreat Muslims..... But then they scream that Bush is a fool to trust them." The repubs are screaming "Do not trust them." But some of the Repubs are pushing the situation forward. The situation of port ownership has just became reality to the American public.

__________________
"Since we started [selling the Livestrong wristbands], we've sold 75 million of these bracelets," said Armstrong. "What's different this year, is that anybody who buys a bracelet during the Tour, all the money stays here. I think it's important for people to understand that the money they spend - 1 Euro - is not going to Texas or the United States, it stays in France."