Mel Gibsons True Colors? - Page 3

Carrera · #31 08-04.-2006

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...ticle_continue
"London is easily the most jihadist hub in western Europe," Roger Cressy, a former White House counterterrorism official, told the Los Angeles Times. "London has been an indoctrination and recruiting centre for many years," Michael Radu, a terrorism expert at the Foreign Policy Research Institute in Philadelphia, told the Philadelphia Tribune.

In the Wall Street Journal, the former head of the State Department's counter-terrorism centre, Larry Johnson, said Britain had been too squeamish about respecting Muslims' rights.

As a result, argues Peter Bergen, a fellow of the New America Foundation, British Muslims pose "one of the greatest terrorist threats to the United States".

In a comment piece, Mr Bergen questions whether America's safety is compromised by allowing Britons to come to the US without a visa, given "the reality that Islamic militant groups in Britain ... represent a growing threat to the United States that will continue for many years to come". So entrenched is the British capital as an outpost of the Muslim diaspora, that London is now commonly referred to as "Londonistan" - a word used several times in different papers."

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

Absolute tosh. The point is that no government has the moral right to attack civillians indiscriminately. I do not see any reason see why Israel should have a uniquely moral right to murder civillians.

That isn't how it has panned out though is it Crappy ? The actual order of events is that Hezbollah took two soldiers prisoner, Israel retaliated by killing a few dozen civillians, destroying an airport, fuel depots, bridges and a power station. A full day passed before the rockets started flying into Israel.

Also it's worth noting that the Israeli soliders were actually caught as they were *retreating* after a botched raid on Lebanon. The IDF have bragged about their commando raids on Lebanon on several occasions. Hell they have even shelled UNIFIL observation posts as a matter of routine, have you even bothered to look at the number of casualties that UNIFIL have reported and where the fire came from on each occasion ?

Untrue. That said Isarel is denying the conventional rights of sovereignty to the Palestinians. We are seeing a classic example of paranoia and projection here.

I think that question is at the back of her mind more than mine.

Hmm is that because Israel's ethnic background is predominately European Jew ?

I don't see any restrictions on Israel's sovereignty whatsoever. There are no sanctions, there are no bombers destroying the IDF, weapons are being supplied quite openly, aid is flowing freely. The Israel is still sitting on the Occupied Territories, Shebba Farms, Jordan Valley, and the Golan Heights. If anything Israeli is enjoying some rather large extras as far as Sovereignty goes, particularly in the light of the fact that they are operating in direct violation of UN Resolution 242.

Why don't you put on a Clown suit and tell the Palestinians that Israel is suffering from restrictions on it's Sovereignty ?

You don't let the facts get in the way of a good slogan do you Crappy ?

darkboong · #32 08-04.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...ticle_continue
"[B]London is easily the most jihadist hub in western Europe," Roger Cressy, a former White House counterterrorism official

Hmm, I take the time to respond to the rubbish you quote, and in return you quote more rubbish. "most jihadist hub" ? What the hell does that mean ? Are Campagnolo Veloce hubs "Jihadist" ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

In the Wall Street Journal, the former head of the State Department's counter-terrorism centre, Larry Johnson, said Britain had been too squeamish about respecting Muslims' rights.

So he thinks we should respect the rights of Muslims less than everyone else ? I don't see why should listen to a goose-stepping wannabe Nazi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

As a result, argues Peter Bergen, a fellow of the New America Foundation, British Muslims pose "one of the greatest terrorist threats to the United States".

America is one of the greatest terrorist threats to British Muslims. They lock them up without charge and torture them for years at a time. I am not at all surprised that they are anticipating some bad feeling from British Muslims.

The New America Foundation advocates the destruction of every Muslim country on the planet. Genocide is highly irrational, I wouldn't expect anyone representing that organisation to present a rational assessment of threat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

London is now commonly referred to as "Londonistan" - a word used several times in different papers."

The real reason for them calling it "Londistan" is that they hate our freedom.

darkboong · #33 08-04.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

I provided further evidence of Christians churches being closed down in Iran and informed you that a Moslem who converts from Islam to Christianity faces the death penalty.

That does not make killing and displacing millions of Lebanese and Palestinians OK though does it ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

The fact remains that if you fail to be shocked and horrified by such a situation and support Hezbollah which is a recognised Iranian backed terrorist organization, then we clearly have different value systems altogether.

I am not shocked by much when it comes to cruelty inflicted by people in uniforms. History is littered with examples.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

It seems to me you seem to research every possible irregularity you can find in Israel but it's funny I never read about death penalties being dealt out to Jews who converted to Christianity or floggings and hangings of gays and lesbians in Telaviv.

That is largely because you haven't bothered to research into it. That has certainly occurred in Israel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

What about that?

Good point, what about that ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

I still maintain you're apparently as anti-Jewish and anti-American as the rest of the Londoners who happily rally around London burning American flags but are never seen protesting over Iraq's gassing of the Kurds or religious persecutions in Iran.

I have protested against all of those things Crappy. I have even told you that in this very thread, but you persist in lying yet again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

This attitude seen lately in London has been making some waves overseas and you guys are getting a reputation for appeasement

Hitler invaded Poland, Chamberlin stood by, you (and Israel's supporters) accuse Chamberlin of Appeasement. Israel invades the Occupied Territories and Lebanon and you accuse the people who speak out against it of being appeasers.

You are a jackbooted liar and racist who actively supports the mass murder and displacement of Lebanese and Palestinians.

darkboong · #34 08-04.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

I still maintain you're apparently as anti-Jewish and anti-American as the rest of the Londoners who happily rally around London burning American flags but are never seen protesting over Iraq's gassing of the Kurds or religious persecutions in Iran.

The question here is : Will you be rallying around London burning American flags and protesting against Israel's bombing of 23 Kurds ?

"At least 23 farm workers have died after Israeli aircraft fired missiles at vehicles in a farm near the Lebanon-Syria border, Lebanese officials said on Friday.

An additional 20 people were wounded in the attack and taken to hospital, while there are reports that some victims remain buried in rubble." - Reuters.

The following is a bit of a old news. I mention it because you brought up the Kurds and alleged that I didn't protest (which in fact I did). The descriptions of the corpses bear an uncanny similarity to the descriptions of some of the Halabja victims (not all though).

"20 July 2006

BRUSSELS — The Israeli military is using chemical weapons during its bombing of Lebanon, a Belgian-Lebanese professor claimed during a press conference in Brussels on Thursday.

The press conference was organised by the secretary of the Tripoli archbishop, Monsignor Jean Abboud. The Belgian professor of Lebanese origin, Bachir Cham, is the head of a hospital in Lebanon.

"The bodies don't look like they normally do. After an explosion there were no traces of blood loss or subcutaneous haemorrhages [bruises]," Cham said via mobile phone direct from Beirut.

"The hair and sometimes the beard and the moustache remained intact. I found no traces of the pressure wave by the
explosion. The colour of the skin was black like a shoe, but the skin was not carbonised or burnt.""

Talking of Halabja, while Turkey & Iraq were hell bent on eliminating the Kurds (using US/UK supplied weapons in both cases), Iran and Syria was busy given them safe-haven. Why have you failed to mention that fact, hmmm ?

Carrera · #35 08-04.-2006

So far as I'm aware, the support for Islamic extremism in London is known within Europe, Russia and the U.S.
I think Melanie Phillips is spot on with her analysis. I do believe the U.K. is risking a diplomatic break with the U.S. but there will be a price to pay if that happens. I mean, it would leave the U.K. quite isolated and I see no signs of Australia withdrawing from the Transatlantic Alliance.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying Americans are saints but I do think the support for Islamic fundamentalism in London is being noted, even in Europe.
The current situation sees Blair with no alternative but to follow Bush's line even if he's opposed by Londoners and his own Party. But the reality is if Blair were to refuse to back the U.S., the Americans would be none too happy. The U.K. depends on the U.S. economically and for defence.
Melanie Philipps is right, though. The special relationship is now with Israel. In Thatcher's time the special relationship was with the U.K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

Hmm, I take the time to respond to the rubbish you quote, and in return you quote more rubbish. "most jihadist hub" ? What the hell does that mean ? Are Campagnolo Veloce hubs "Jihadist" ?

So he thinks we should respect the rights of Muslims less than everyone else ? I don't see why should listen to a goose-stepping wannabe Nazi.

America is one of the greatest terrorist threats to British Muslims. They lock them up without charge and torture them for years at a time. I am not at all surprised that they are anticipating some bad feeling from British Muslims.

The New America Foundation advocates the destruction of every Muslim country on the planet. Genocide is highly irrational, I wouldn't expect anyone representing that organisation to present a rational assessment of threat.

The real reason for them calling it "Londistan" is that they hate our freedom.

Carrera · #36 08-04.-2006

Do you know what the verb "to medize" means? It was a term that described Greeks who surrendered to Persia when Greece was threatened with invasion of the Persian army. That is, there were Greeks who believed the easy way out for Greece would be just to submit to the Persian Empire and send a sacrifice of earth, fire and water.
Today, it's the same. There are Americans and Europeans who believe in secular liberty and democracy and western values. They're prepared to fight to preserve those values. There are other groups of people, however, who would rather live under Islamic Fundamentalism. Such people hate Israel, hate the U.S.A. and hate democracy.
As much as Wurm hates George Bush, I find it hard to believe he'd rather live in an Islamic Theocracy where gays and lesbians are lashed and hung by a noose for their sexual orientation and where people are beheaded for choosing another religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

That does not make killing and displacing millions of Lebanese and Palestinians OK though does it ?

I am not shocked by much when it comes to cruelty inflicted by people in uniforms. History is littered with examples.

That is largely because you haven't bothered to research into it. That has certainly occurred in Israel.

Good point, what about that ?

I have protested against all of those things Crappy. I have even told you that in this very thread, but you persist in lying yet again.

Hitler invaded Poland, Chamberlin stood by, you (and Israel's supporters) accuse Chamberlin of Appeasement. Israel invades the Occupied Territories and Lebanon and you accuse the people who speak out against it of being appeasers.

You are a jackbooted liar and racist who actively supports the mass murder and displacement of Lebanese and Palestinians.

Carrera · #37 08-04.-2006

Make up your own minds. Darkboong reckons Israel is repressive, disrespectful of human rights and intolerant and America is a dictatorship Here's some information about Iran to maybe compare with life in Israel. If Boogers could find some details like this to accuse Israel of he'd be in his element:
"Five Iranians, including two sisters, Tahereh and Sima Yaghubi, were reported to have been flogged in public on 16 May 2001 in the northern city of Tonekabon for having sexual relations outside marriage. The sisters and two of the men received 91 lashes each; the remaining man received 74 lashes.
A woman, named only as Robabeh, was sentenced in May 2001 to receive 50 lashes, to be followed by stoning to death. There have been no reports of the punishment having yet been carried out.
Twenty-five men received between 70 and 80 lashes in public floggings carried out in Tehran on 20 July 2001; the men were accused of drinking and selling alcohol.
On 24 July 2001, eight Iranian men accused of drinking alcohol and causing public disturbances were publicly flogged in Vanak Square in northern Tehran. The men, all aged between 20 and 25, each received between 70 and 80 lashes. A further 14 men, aged 20-25, were flogged in Tehran, receiving between 70-80 lashes.
On 25 July 2001, 22 men were flogged in public in Tehran for drinking alcohol and harassing women.
On 29 July 2001, five men were whipped in a public square in the town of Boroujerd in the west of Iran. The men all received more than 70 lashes for public disorder offences.
On 1 August 2001 a Revolutionary Court in Torbat-e Heydariyeh, in northeastern Iran, sentenced two political supporters of the president, Mohammad Khatami, to periods of imprisonment plus 40 lashes following arrests made in connection with celebrations of the president's re-election.
Five Iranian men were flogged in public for drunkenness on 7 August 2001. The men, aged between 27 and 30, reportedly received 70 lashes each at a Tehran square close to the Interior Ministry building."

davidmc · #38 08-04.-2006

along those lines...

stevebaby · #39 08-04.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

Make up your own minds. Darkboong reckons Israel is repressive, disrespectful of human rights and intolerant and America is a dictatorship Here's some information about Iran to maybe compare with life in Israel. If Boogers could find some details like this to accuse Israel of he'd be in his element:
"Five Iranians, including two sisters, Tahereh and Sima Yaghubi, were reported to have been flogged in public on 16 May 2001 in the northern city of Tonekabon for having sexual relations outside marriage. The sisters and two of the men received 91 lashes each; the remaining man received 74 lashes.
A woman, named only as Robabeh, was sentenced in May 2001 to receive 50 lashes, to be followed by stoning to death. There have been no reports of the punishment having yet been carried out.
Twenty-five men received between 70 and 80 lashes in public floggings carried out in Tehran on 20 July 2001; the men were accused of drinking and selling alcohol.
On 24 July 2001, eight Iranian men accused of drinking alcohol and causing public disturbances were publicly flogged in Vanak Square in northern Tehran. The men, all aged between 20 and 25, each received between 70 and 80 lashes. A further 14 men, aged 20-25, were flogged in Tehran, receiving between 70-80 lashes.
On 25 July 2001, 22 men were flogged in public in Tehran for drinking alcohol and harassing women.
On 29 July 2001, five men were whipped in a public square in the town of Boroujerd in the west of Iran. The men all received more than 70 lashes for public disorder offences.
On 1 August 2001 a Revolutionary Court in Torbat-e Heydariyeh, in northeastern Iran, sentenced two political supporters of the president, Mohammad Khatami, to periods of imprisonment plus 40 lashes following arrests made in connection with celebrations of the president's re-election.
Five Iranian men were flogged in public for drunkenness on 7 August 2001. The men, aged between 27 and 30, reportedly received 70 lashes each at a Tehran square close to the Interior Ministry building."

This is exactly what happens in saudi arabia...the country which receives the greater portion of us aid (and which is certainly the country which least needs it.).Nobody seems too bothered about this.It would also be an accurate description of pakistan or kuwait or oman etc.
The main difference between saudi arabia and iran is that at least iranians get to vote.
Still,looking on the bright side...the saudi oil minister said recently that an attack on iran would cause the price of oil to triple...so the citizens of every western country will be spending a lot more time on their bikes!

stevebaby · #40 08-05.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

And with a little luck it never will be.

World Exclusive!
First Cruise baby pic!

http://images.www3.cyclingforums.com...attach/jpg.gif
ugly-baby-l.jpg

darkboong · #41 08-05.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

Make up your own minds. Darkboong reckons Israel is repressive, disrespectful of human rights and intolerant

That's not what I say at all, you are telling lies again Crappy. You just can't stop lying can you ?

What I actually say that Israel is fundamentally racist in it's law and policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

and America is a dictatorship

Where did I say that ? Another lie... Pack em in Crappy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrera

Here's some information about Iran to maybe compare with life in Israel. If Boogers could find some details like this to accuse Israel of he'd be in his element:

I can't really because Israel doesn't bother with the notion of due process. Yet again I note that you are raiding 5 year old stories, for all we know Iran may have magically cleaned up it's act over night... I am willing to belive that Israel can change. By contrast the jackbooted Zionists like You, Mel P, Horowitz, Hitchens etc all tell us that Muslims are an implaccable foe.

So far you haven't managed to refute any evidence of Israel's racist policies, so all we can conclude is that you have some kind of agenda. As far as I can tell you want Iran destroyed because they don't make bicycles that you ride. The tin foil is in the post, hope it goes some way towards making your hat.

ptlwp · #42 08-05.-2006

Mel is no bigger a racist that most secular humanists who today reside in Europe. If it hadn't been for their own virulent antisemitism, and failure to intercede during WWII, but mostly being Hitlers willing executioners, maybe the survivors of the holocaust could have moved back to their european homes, except for the fact that they KNEW that anti-semitism was alive and well, even after the war. In fact, a Jew could be shot upon returning to his residence.

If there were no military in the close vicinity, europeans would have shot the survivors because they were living in the homes and properties that they all had ransacked from Jews all over Europe.

Now that Jews are in the midde east and the United States, so there goes the persecution along with it.

Stop acting stupid Euros, were it not for the USA, all of europe, including the French would be eating either sushi or bratwurst. The French make excellent chef's maybe, but not peacemakers. The English want "peace in their time" even if it meant a piece of a V1 rocket going up their asses.

With the exception of the "righteous gentiles" of whom there were a few, get over your respective xenophobia of people who have done nothing but do things for the betterment of society.

Christ
Freud
Einstein
Salk & Sabin

but to name a parse few.

stevebaby · #43 08-05.-2006

How long do you think it will be before the us has a jewish president?(or a woman president).
Don't hold your breath...
Remember Disraeli?
Marshal Mannheim threatened to use Finland's army to defend Finnish jews.Many Dutch citizens lost their lives protecting Dutch jews.Denmark resisted the nazis for as long as it took to smuggle many Danish jews to safety in Sweden.There were many Russian jews fighting in the Red Army.Millions of those Russian secular humanists died in that war...and they liberated more jewish prisoners from concentration camps than did the western allies.
There is just as much anti-semitism in the us as in europe,if not more.The us didn't exactly rush in to defend europe's jews.They were dragged in by a combination of churchill's and roosevelt's subterfuge against considerable opposition in the us from a large base of anti-semitic nazi sympathisers.
http://rexcurry.net/pledgebund.html
German American Bund Movement
How many americans know that their pledge of allegiance was written by a nazi sympathiser...or that the nazi salute originated in the us?

darkboong · #44 08-05.-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlwp

Now that Jews are in the midde east and the United States, so there goes the persecution along with it.

They always have been in the Middles East and the USA. Why are you ignorant of that fact ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlwp

Stop acting stupid Euros, were it not for the USA, all of europe, including the French would be eating either sushi or bratwurst.

We eat Sushi and Bratwurst anyway, and we enjoy it. What is the USA's grand contribution to European cuisine ? McDonalds ? Give me a break, you are better off eating Dripping Sandwiches. If the US didn't bother to show up Germany would have still have fallen thanks to the efforts of the Russians, British and the brave Resistance fighters who you disrespect so casually. If the US didn't bother to show up the US wouldn't have had nuclear weapons and jet engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlwp

The French make excellent chef's maybe, but not peacemakers. The English want "peace in their time" even if it meant a piece of a V1 rocket going up their asses.

V1's weren't rockets, they were crudely guided cruise missiles powered by Pulse Jets. You appear to know absolutely **** all about what you are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptlwp

With the exception of the "righteous gentiles" of whom there were a few, get over your respective xenophobia of people who have done nothing but do things for the betterment of society.

None of that changes what Israel is doing in the Occupied Territories and Lebanon today. Pontificating about "ifs and buts" of an event you clearly know **** all about that happened 50 years ago doesn't justify or change the fact that Israel is doing *bad* things to millions of innocent people. If you want revenge for WWII, go bomb Germany, don't take it out on Gentile kids in the Middle East.

stevebaby · #45 08-05.-2006

It would be more correct to see hizbollah as a "citizen militia".If they get aid from syria or iran,consider the following...
http://www.washington-report.org/htm...israel0001.htm
US Aid to Israel: The Lifeblood of Occupation
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...o_Israel1.html
U.S. Assistance to Israel

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