beliefomatic test that Larry suggested

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (98%)
3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (89%)
4. Liberal Quakers (87%)
5. Nontheist (79%)
6. Theravada Buddhism (74%)
7. Neo-Pagan (73%)
8. Bahá'í Faith (66%)
9. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (58%)
10. Taoism (58%)
11. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (54%)
12. Reform Judaism (52%)
13. New Age (51%)
14. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (43%)
15. New Thought (43%)
16. Orthodox Quaker (37%)
17. Sikhism (37%)
18. Mahayana Buddhism (36%)
19. Scientology (36%)
20. Jehovah's Witness (28%)
21. Eastern Orthodox (19%)
22. Islam (19%)
23. Jainism (19%)
24. Orthodox Judaism (19%)
25. Roman Catholic (19%)
26. Seventh Day Adventist (15%)
27. Hinduism (7%)

And I thought I was just an indifferent Catholic.

Unitaria, secular, humanist, universalist!?!?!?

HMMMM! Sounds like disguised foreign, antichristian, antiamerican
communism. You must be one of those that are trying to push evolution
and opposes creationism.

Andres


Man o' Tea wrote:
> 1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
> 2. Secular Humanism (98%)
> 3. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (89%)
> 4. Liberal Quakers (87%)
> 5. Nontheist (79%)
> 6. Theravada Buddhism (74%)
> 7. Neo-Pagan (73%)
> 8. Bahá'í Faith (66%)
> 9. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (58%)
> 10. Taoism (58%)
> 11. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (54%)
> 12. Reform Judaism (52%)
> 13. New Age (51%)
> 14. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (43%)
> 15. New Thought (43%)
> 16. Orthodox Quaker (37%)
> 17. Sikhism (37%)
> 18. Mahayana Buddhism (36%)
> 19. Scientology (36%)
> 20. Jehovah's Witness (28%)
> 21. Eastern Orthodox (19%)
> 22. Islam (19%)
> 23. Jainism (19%)
> 24. Orthodox Judaism (19%)
> 25. Roman Catholic (19%)
> 26. Seventh Day Adventist (15%)
> 27. Hinduism (7%)
>
> And I thought I was just an indifferent Catholic.

[email protected] wrote:

> Unitaria, secular, humanist, universalist!?!?!?
>
> HMMMM! Sounds like disguised foreign, antichristian, antiamerican
> communism. You must be one of those that are trying to push evolution
> and opposes creationism.

That's right, I'm not a neocon.

Amusing, don't you think, that we agree very well on religion and
politics, but have fought World War III over swimming (no, take that
back; more like World War I-style long trench warfare).

Four things never to discuss with friends: religion, politics, diet,
and swimming.

[email protected] (Larry Weisenthal) wrote:

> Amusing, don't you think, that we agree very well on religion and
> politics, but have fought World War III over swimming (no, take that
> back; more like World War I-style long trench warfare).
>
> Four things never to discuss with friends: religion, politics, diet,
> and swimming.
>

Okay, I can ignore the differences in diet and swimming...well, almost
ignore. And I positively enjoy religious difference, but politics?
That means a serious difference in values and attitudes toward everyone
and the whole world. Different politics? Not my friend.

rtk

Well, here are mine...despite only recognizing a couple of the top 10 faiths
on my list, it is curiously identical to the list i got when i did it a few
hours ago...the top 10 moved around a little, but Jainism stayed at the
top...maybe I need to look into it...

1. Jainism (100%)
2. Mahayana Buddhism (86%)
3. Hinduism (81%)
4. Theravada Buddhism (78%)
5. Sikhism (77%)
6. Neo-Pagan (74%)
7. Orthodox Judaism (69%)
8. Bahá'í Faith (67%)
9. New Age (64%)
10. Unitarian Universalism (63%)
11. Reform Judaism (62%)
12. Liberal Quakers (61%)
13. Islam (58%)
14. Taoism (57%)
15. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (46%)
16. New Thought (46%)
17. Orthodox Quaker (44%)
18. Scientology (44%)
19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (38%)
21. Secular Humanism (37%)
22. Seventh Day Adventist (37%)
23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (32%)
24. Eastern Orthodox (30%)
25. Roman Catholic (30%)
26. Jehovah's Witness (30%)
27. Nontheist (29%)

[email protected] (Larry Weisenthal) wrote:

> Amusing, don't you think, that we agree very well on religion and
> politics, but have fought World War III over swimming (no, take that
> back; more like World War I-style long trench warfare).

At least we both *like* swimming!

[email protected] (Larry Weisenthal) wrote:

> Amusing, don't you think, that we agree very well on religion and
> politics, but have fought World War III over swimming (no, take that
> back; more like World War I-style long trench warfare).

At least we both *like* swimming!

Diablo:

Yours are interesting and appear to be contradictory. From my knowledge
of Eastern thought, and my experience meeting some eastern thinkers, I
find a lot of things that they share with humanists, secularists. also,
eastern religions are often considered non-theists in that they do not
worship god figures. Rather, they show respect for nature and for all
living things. So, lisitng four eastern religions and the top and
non-theism at the bottom is sort of a a contradiction.

Andres


diablo wrote:
> Well, here are mine...despite only recognizing a couple of the top 10 faiths
> on my list, it is curiously identical to the list i got when i did it a few
> hours ago...the top 10 moved around a little, but Jainism stayed at the
> top...maybe I need to look into it...
>
> 1. Jainism (100%)
> 2. Mahayana Buddhism (86%)
> 3. Hinduism (81%)
> 4. Theravada Buddhism (78%)
> 5. Sikhism (77%)
> 6. Neo-Pagan (74%)
> 7. Orthodox Judaism (69%)
> 8. Bahá'í Faith (67%)
> 9. New Age (64%)
> 10. Unitarian Universalism (63%)
> 11. Reform Judaism (62%)
> 12. Liberal Quakers (61%)
> 13. Islam (58%)
> 14. Taoism (57%)
> 15. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (46%)
> 16. New Thought (46%)
> 17. Orthodox Quaker (44%)
> 18. Scientology (44%)
> 19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
> 20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (38%)
> 21. Secular Humanism (37%)
> 22. Seventh Day Adventist (37%)
> 23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (32%)
> 24. Eastern Orthodox (30%)
> 25. Roman Catholic (30%)
> 26. Jehovah's Witness (30%)
> 27. Nontheist (29%)

[email protected] wrote:
> Diablo:
>
> Yours are interesting and appear to be contradictory. From my knowledge
> of Eastern thought, and my experience meeting some eastern thinkers, I
> find a lot of things that they share with humanists, secularists. also,
> eastern religions are often considered non-theists in that they do not
> worship god figures. Rather, they show respect for nature and for all
> living things. So, lisitng four eastern religions and the top and
> non-theism at the bottom is sort of a a contradiction.
>
> Andres
>
>
> diablo wrote:
>
>>Well, here are mine...despite only recognizing a couple of the top 10 faiths
>>on my list, it is curiously identical to the list i got when i did it a few
>>hours ago...the top 10 moved around a little, but Jainism stayed at the
>>top...maybe I need to look into it...
>>
>>1. Jainism (100%)
>>2. Mahayana Buddhism (86%)
>>3. Hinduism (81%)
>>4. Theravada Buddhism (78%)
>>5. Sikhism (77%)
>>6. Neo-Pagan (74%)
>>7. Orthodox Judaism (69%)
>>8. Bahá'í Faith (67%)
>>9. New Age (64%)
>>10. Unitarian Universalism (63%)
>>11. Reform Judaism (62%)
>>12. Liberal Quakers (61%)
>>13. Islam (58%)
>>14. Taoism (57%)
>>15. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (46%)
>>16. New Thought (46%)
>>17. Orthodox Quaker (44%)
>>18. Scientology (44%)
>>19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
>>20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (38%)
>>21. Secular Humanism (37%)
>>22. Seventh Day Adventist (37%)
>>23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (32%)
>>24. Eastern Orthodox (30%)
>>25. Roman Catholic (30%)
>>26. Jehovah's Witness (30%)
>>27. Nontheist (29%)

Not necessarily. Remember the distinction... Eastern thought centers on
the worth of all living things. In a vastly oversimplified way, you
could say they worship life itself as a form of divinity. Nontheistic
suggests you hold nothing to be holy/sacred at all, the notion of "there
is no God." I don't think having the two split like that is a conflict
at all.

[email protected] wrote:
> Diablo:
>
> Yours are interesting and appear to be contradictory. From my knowledge
> of Eastern thought, and my experience meeting some eastern thinkers, I
> find a lot of things that they share with humanists, secularists. also,
> eastern religions are often considered non-theists in that they do not
> worship god figures. Rather, they show respect for nature and for all
> living things. So, lisitng four eastern religions and the top and
> non-theism at the bottom is sort of a a contradiction.
>
> Andres
>
>
> diablo wrote:
>
>>Well, here are mine...despite only recognizing a couple of the top 10 faiths
>>on my list, it is curiously identical to the list i got when i did it a few
>>hours ago...the top 10 moved around a little, but Jainism stayed at the
>>top...maybe I need to look into it...
>>
>>1. Jainism (100%)
>>2. Mahayana Buddhism (86%)
>>3. Hinduism (81%)
>>4. Theravada Buddhism (78%)
>>5. Sikhism (77%)
>>6. Neo-Pagan (74%)
>>7. Orthodox Judaism (69%)
>>8. Bahá'í Faith (67%)
>>9. New Age (64%)
>>10. Unitarian Universalism (63%)
>>11. Reform Judaism (62%)
>>12. Liberal Quakers (61%)
>>13. Islam (58%)
>>14. Taoism (57%)
>>15. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (46%)
>>16. New Thought (46%)
>>17. Orthodox Quaker (44%)
>>18. Scientology (44%)
>>19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
>>20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (38%)
>>21. Secular Humanism (37%)
>>22. Seventh Day Adventist (37%)
>>23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (32%)
>>24. Eastern Orthodox (30%)
>>25. Roman Catholic (30%)
>>26. Jehovah's Witness (30%)
>>27. Nontheist (29%)

Not necessarily. Remember the distinction... Eastern thought centers on
the worth of all living things. In a vastly oversimplified way, you
could say they worship life itself as a form of divinity. Nontheistic
suggests you hold nothing to be holy/sacred at all, the notion of "there
is no God." I don't think having the two split like that is a conflict
at all.

>>And I positively enjoy religious difference, but politics?
That means a serious difference in values and attitudes toward everyone

and the whole world. Different politics? Not my friend. <<

I guess this counts as arguing politics, but I don't agree.

My best friend is my polar opposite, politically. And we argue
politics quite often and often quite passionately. Sometimes we just
get all punched out and take a time out. I spend a lot of time arguing
politics on Usenet, where (on the political groups) the norm is to hide
behind a pseudonym and use the most vituperative and insulting language
possible. I personally think that one of the most unfortunate aspects
of post-Gingrich American politics is that there is no longer such a
thing as the honest difference of opinion. If I had a fortune, I'd
endow a Foundation for Political Tolerance. Since I don't, I've sort
of made it my part-time mission to bring civility to
alt.politics.usa.republican, alt. politics.usa.democrat,
alt.politics.rush-limbaugh, and alt.politics.liberal. I've found that
if you talk to the most rabidly political opposites in a respectful
manner, you'll eventually win them over and they'll respond in kind. I
will say that (speaking as more or less one of the Lib Dem persuasion),
the hardest nuts to crack are Liberals turning on their own when one
(e.g. me) finds some merit in the conservative side of a given
argument. My Dad and I have had some monumental e-mail battles over
politics, also, but always sign our respective letters with a
"Love,Dad" and "Love,Larry."

All John Lennon was saying, was give peace a chance.

- Larry W

Chris Zakelj wrote:

Nontheistic
> suggests you hold nothing to be holy/sacred at all, the notion of "there
> is no God." I don't think having the two split like that is a conflict
> at all.

Actually, as an atheist I can tell you this is very far from truth.
Non-theistic means that we don't believe in a god or gods. However, we
do hold many things sacred. The most important, holly and sacred thing
for atheists is earthly life itself. Theists believe that there is
another after life. In the christian tradition, the after life is the
more important life and this is merely preparation for the after life.
Actions on earth can be forgiven if we accept our god as our savior and
get ready for the after life.

For atheists, there is no after life and no forgiveness. Once we mess
up we've done it. So we have no other chance to fix it. Atheists are
usually committed to social justice, egalitarianism, quality of life of
all beings, because we hold the sanctity of life as the most important
thing.

One of the key things about atheists is that we don't have a-priori
rules or commands that determine our behavior. It is our own
responsibility, and ultimately we are responsible only to ourselves and
other beings on earth when we act.

Andres

rtk wrote:
> [email protected] (Larry Weisenthal) wrote:
>
>> Amusing, don't you think, that we agree very well on religion and
>> politics, but have fought World War III over swimming (no, take that
>> back; more like World War I-style long trench warfare).
>>
>> Four things never to discuss with friends: religion, politics, diet,
>> and swimming.
>>
>
> Okay, I can ignore the differences in diet and swimming...well, almost
> ignore. And I positively enjoy religious difference, but politics? That
> means a serious difference in values and attitudes toward everyone and
> the whole world. Different politics? Not my friend.
>
> rtk

Actually, Ruth, I think this is a don't-knock-it-till-you've-tried it
scenario. Being friends with my polictical enemies really opened up new
worlds of association for me. It also helps to know how the other half
thinks, and what it is that drives them to think that way.
Madelaine

diablo wrote:
> Well, here are mine...despite only recognizing a couple of the top 10 faiths
> on my list, it is curiously identical to the list i got when i did it a few
> hours ago...the top 10 moved around a little, but Jainism stayed at the
> top...maybe I need to look into it...
>
> 1. Jainism (100%)
> 2. Mahayana Buddhism (86%)
> 3. Hinduism (81%)
> 4. Theravada Buddhism (78%)
> 5. Sikhism (77%)
> 6. Neo-Pagan (74%)
> 7. Orthodox Judaism (69%)
> 8. Bahá'í Faith (67%)
> 9. New Age (64%)
> 10. Unitarian Universalism (63%)
> 11. Reform Judaism (62%)
> 12. Liberal Quakers (61%)
> 13. Islam (58%)
> 14. Taoism (57%)
> 15. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (46%)
> 16. New Thought (46%)
> 17. Orthodox Quaker (44%)
> 18. Scientology (44%)
> 19. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
> 20. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (38%)
> 21. Secular Humanism (37%)
> 22. Seventh Day Adventist (37%)
> 23. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (32%)
> 24. Eastern Orthodox (30%)
> 25. Roman Catholic (30%)
> 26. Jehovah's Witness (30%)
> 27. Nontheist (29%)
>
>
One flaw of this test is that some religions are not something you can
choose, you have to be born into them. I suspect (but don't know) that
Jainism and Sikhism fall into that category.
Madelaine

>>One flaw of this test is that some religions are not something you can
choose, you have to be born into them.<<

That's the purpose of the test. To match people with actual
faiths/philosophies, as opposed to upbringing/indoctrination.

The most interesting result I've found so far (in addition to my Dad's
neo-paganism) is an Islamic friend (from Pakistan) who scored very high
for orthodox and reform Judaism but in the bottom 1/3 of the list for
Islam. Then there is another of my friends (a Republican Baptist) who
scored 100% for Orthodox Quaker and considerably lower for mainline to
conservative Protestant.

By birth, I'm half Jewish/half Finnish (Protestant). For only about a
year of my upbringing did my parents attend a weekly religious service
and take me and my brother. This was a Unitarian/Universalist assembly,
so, in my case anyway, I guess I ended up pretty close to my
upbringing, and it's stuck. But I haven't set foot in a Unitarian
church since I was about 9 years old. I guess I'll have to try it out
again at least once before I die.

I'm a top-posting rebel.

I'm involved with people who practice meditation and some Hindu beliefs
and practices, but are not Hindus because they were not born
Hindus--there is literally no conversion process. There are a lot of
things I like about these beliefs and practices, but the faux-Hinduism
of it bothers me. I find it to be a sort of reverse-Imperialism. In
particular, I find the advice about love and mating to be very
entrenched in Indian beliefs and practices and therefore of little use
to Westerners.

I guess my motto is be what you are but do what you do.

It is a good motto since it is simultaneously obvious and ambiguous.
Madelaine
[email protected] (Larry Weisenthal) wrote:
>>>One flaw of this test is that some religions are not something you can
>
> choose, you have to be born into them.<<
>
> That's the purpose of the test. To match people with actual
> faiths/philosophies, as opposed to upbringing/indoctrination.
>
> The most interesting result I've found so far (in addition to my Dad's
> neo-paganism) is an Islamic friend (from Pakistan) who scored very high
> for orthodox and reform Judaism but in the bottom 1/3 of the list for
> Islam. Then there is another of my friends (a Republican Baptist) who
> scored 100% for Orthodox Quaker and considerably lower for mainline to
> conservative Protestant.
>
> By birth, I'm half Jewish/half Finnish (Protestant). For only about a
> year of my upbringing did my parents attend a weekly religious service
> and take me and my brother. This was a Unitarian/Universalist assembly,
> so, in my case anyway, I guess I ended up pretty close to my
> upbringing, and it's stuck. But I haven't set foot in a Unitarian
> church since I was about 9 years old. I guess I'll have to try it out
> again at least once before I die.
>

>From Maelaine:

>>I'm involved with people who practice meditation and some Hindu beliefs
and practices, but are not Hindus because they were not born
Hindus--there is literally no conversion process. <<

I was thinking, that, if I ever again feel drawn to a higher power, I
might well join a whole lot of others who explored Hinduism.

It's actually a religion which makes some sense to me, from the point
of view of "if I were God, then how would I do things?"

The really fatal flaw with Christianity (in my mind) is it's extreme
favoritism to circumstances of birth, over which no one has any
control. If one is born into a devoutly Christian home, it is very
easy to find one's way to Christianity. One doesn't really have to do
any work at all. It is pretty much home delivered. Compare/contrast
with Fareed Ahmad or whomever, born on the Gaza strip or any of
billions of similar people, for whom it would take a virtual miracle to
ever receive serious exposure to Christianity. I've talked at length
about this sort of thing with my Dad. Had he been born an Arab, he'd
be among the leaders of the fight against "Zionism." Had he been born
in Alabama, he'd thump Bibles with the most fervent of the Religious
Right. But he was born a Jew, and made his way to Israel to drive a big
supply truck while serving in the Israeli army in the 1973 Yom Kippur
war (still has his official Israeli army discharge papers framed on his
wall at home). So he considers himself to be a (fiercely loyal) Jew,
but with neo-pagan beliefs/philosophies. Go figure.

Hinduism is the world's most tolerant religion. The theme is basically
one of self-improvement. One strives to become less imperfect, less
sinful, more tolerant, more at peace with the world, and, in so doing,
to make the world a better place. It doesn't matter how this is done.
Hindus are perfectly happy for Christians to be Christian and Jews to
be Jews and Muslims to be Muslims and secularists to be secular, if
that is the path through which each person can achieve self improvement
and inner peace. For those who wish it, Hinduism provides methods of
facilitating these goals, but it is not required that one embrace
Hinduism itself or any of its practices. It's just there if it is
wanted and needed. But other ways are OK, as well. There is the
(optional) belief in reincarnation. The quest for self-improvement is
so daunting that it takes more than one or two lifetimes. It can take
many lifetimes. But, after a period of time and a number of lifetimes,
one has gradually reached such a state of self improvement that further
human, earthly existence is no longer required, and one is spiritually
ready for heaven.

I find this to be both intellectually and spiritually appealing. If I
were God, this is EXACTLY how I'd do it.

- Larry W