1 more Colnago question: dream B-Stay HP

[Derk]

Hi,

As I said yesterday, I have a frameset I want to get rid off.

My dealer also proposed a Dream HP B-Stay, but I have always been afraid of glued carbon inserts. I
can't believe it's as strong as a frame made of 1 material and I don't believe in a more comfortable
ride because of the B-Stay.

Am I wrong? Is the Dream such a great machine and far better than a 100% Aluminium frame? Do I just
pay a lot of money extra for the Colnago name or are these bikes really fantastic?

TIA! Derk

 

[Qui si parla Ca]

Derk-<< My dealer also proposed a Dream HP B-Stay, but I have always been afraid of glued carbon
inserts. I can't believe it's as strong as a frame made of 1 material and I don't believe in a more
comfortable ride because of the B-Stay. >><BR><BR>

Glued in carbon bits, along with stuff like compact and threadless and oversized hbars are the stuff
of the marketing department, not the racing department.

derk<< Do I just pay a lot of money extra for the Colnago name or are these bikes really fantastic?
>><BR><BR>

Lots for the name and no warranty to speak of. I would look for something else.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Derk]

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

> Glued in carbon bits, along with stuff like compact and threadless and oversized hbars are the
> stuff of the marketing department, not the racing department.
That's what I thought already......................

> Lots for the name and no warranty to speak of. I would look for something else.
Yes..but what? I'm looking for a bike that I leave in France, where I cycle 6 weeks a year. I'm
tired of taking my 12 years old SLX frame with me. Apart from that, I can't find any spare parts for
a 12 years old D-A group in France and the SLX frame is not the safest to descent at high speed
with. So I am basically looking for something looking nice, not too heavy (climbs), moderately
priced and comfortable to ride.

I was also offered a full carbon frame (http://www.janjanssen.nl/foto.php?Id=8), but I am olf-
fashioned and don't trust Carbon frames and don't believe in any advantages of traditionally shaped
carbon frames. Apart from that, I don't like sloping frames.

Another option would be the Scandium Merckx frame. But Scandium is so thin it could be easily
damaged during transport or after a fall or so.

What would you consider to be great value for money in frames? My dealer offers Pinarello, Colnago
(both too expensive to my taste), Merckx, Cannondale (find them ugly), Willier, Bianchi (nervous),
Jan Janssen and Duell.

Duell produce some very nice looking lightweight steel frames, but the madness also struck there:
they started gluing carbon inserts into some of their steel frames. (they have a nice 2 kg frameset
of Dedacciai Sat 14.5). http://www.duell.nl/ned/frames/fr_passion.htm

Greets, Derk

 

[Lou Holtman]

"Derk" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> > Glued in carbon bits, along with stuff like compact and threadless and oversized hbars are the
> > stuff of the marketing department, not the
racing
> > department.
> That's what I thought already......................
>
> > Lots for the name and no warranty to speak of. I would look for
something
> > else.
> Yes..but what? I'm looking for a bike that I leave in France, where I
cycle
> 6 weeks a year. I'm tired of taking my 12 years old SLX frame with me. Apart from that, I can't
> find any spare parts for a 12 years old D-A group in France and the SLX frame is not the safest to
> descent at high speed with. So I am basically looking for something looking nice, not too heavy
> (climbs), moderately priced and comfortable to ride.
>
> I was also offered a full carbon frame (http://www.janjanssen.nl/foto.php?Id=8), but I am olf-
> fashioned and don't trust Carbon frames and don't believe in any advantages of traditionally
> shaped carbon frames. Apart from that, I don't like sloping frames.
>
> Another option would be the Scandium Merckx frame. But Scandium is so thin it could be easily
> damaged during transport or after a fall or so.
>
> What would you consider to be great value for money in frames? My dealer offers Pinarello, Colnago
> (both too expensive to my taste), Merckx, Cannondale (find them ugly), Willier, Bianchi (nervous),
> Jan Janssen and Duell.
>
> Duell produce some very nice looking lightweight steel frames, but the madness also struck there:
> they started gluing carbon inserts into some of their steel frames. (they have a nice 2 kg
> frameset of Dedacciai Sat
14.5).
> http://www.duell.nl/ned/frames/fr_passion.htm
>
> Greets, Derk

What about a no nonsense Jan Jansen Paris-Nice or a Pinarello Prince (not the SL). Hiermee moet het
toch lukken 6 weken per jaar.

Lou, I thought I have problems ;-)

 

[Derk]

Hi Lou,

> What about a no nonsense Jan Jansen Paris-Nice
Ugly, ugly , ugly: oversized aluminium. I know they're Ok, but I really can't stand the sight of
such an ugly frame........

I once had an aluminium frame and I sold it, because I heard all the noices being amplified through
the oversized aluminium.

> or a Pinarello Prince (not the SL).
Are there several Prince's?

> Hiermee moet het toch lukken 6 weken per jaar.
het *kan* wel, maar ik wil graag iets leuks ;-)

> Lou, I thought I have problems ;-)
trust me: I have worse problems than this, but I must trade in this frame I have now and that I
don't use or I won't have a bike during my holiday.

So, Lou, what do you think of the Duell frames?

Greets, Derk

 

[Hugfly]

The mysterious "Derk" who dislikes spam and has chosen to shield his
identity from us wrote:

> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>> Lots for the name and no warranty to speak of. I would look for something else.
>
> Yes..but what? I'm looking for a bike that I leave in France, where I cycle 6 weeks a year. I'm
> tired of taking my 12 years old SLX frame with me.

I can understand wanting to leave a bike in France so you don't have to cart one with you every
year, but for 6 weeks of riding a year couldn't you get by with a mid-price offering like, say, a
Bianchi CDI or Veloce? Were I in your position, I would probably look for a used road bike, but
that's just
me.

Just out of curiosity, are you thinking of a 12 year old bike as being particularly aged
in some way?

> Apart from that, I can't find any spare parts for a 12 years old D-A group in France and the SLX
> frame is not the safest to descent at high speed with. So I am basically looking for something
> looking nice, not too heavy (climbs), moderately priced and comfortable to ride.

What part of SLX is not safe for descending?

While I understand the desire to lower the weight on a bike that will be used for climbing, don't
forget that saving 1 or 2 lbs off the bike makes a very small difference in the overall
bike+rider weight.

I'm also a little confused about your requirements. On the one hand you claim that SLX, which was
lauded for it's lower weight, is unsafe for descending, but at the same time you are looking for
another light weight bike for climbing. Would I be wrong to assume the concerns you have about your
SLX frame will likely be duplicated by any other wonder-material light weight bike you replace it
with? Sometimes a little extra weight on the frame can be a good thing.

On another note, do you need to stick with D-A level components? I'm sure you can find enough parts
to keep the bike going without the requirement to keep everything at the DA pricepoint. If this is
in fact a big concern for you, it would be a trivial task to simply update the components with an
whole new (9 or 10 speed) group. However, aside from the shifters and cassette/freewheel, just about
any modern Shimano component should integrate just fine with a 12 year old D-A group. Shifters and
cassettes for older systems are honestly not that tough to find though.

Hugh "likes steel bikes and can't get the point of non-sponsored riders using Dura Ace equipment"
Flynn Roslindale, MA

 

[Derk]

Hugfly wrote:

> The mysterious "Derk" who dislikes spam and has chosen to shield his identity from us wrote:
Derk is my real name and the last time I published my latest email adres, I got 30 offers a day to
make my penis larger, which I really don't want to do (extra weight!)

> I can understand wanting to leave a bike in France so you don't have to cart one with you every
> year, but for 6 weeks of riding a year couldn't you get by with a mid-price offering like, say, a
> Bianchi CDI or Veloce? Were I in your position, I would probably look for a used road bike, but
> that's just me.
The problem is that I have a bike that I never use. I built myself a cross bike, but I never feel
like crossing, so I figured I would be better off with a bike I would use and that I can leave in
France. The fact is that my dealer offers me the same amount I paid for it *IF* I buy a somewhat
more expensive bike back, so buying something cheap is not interesting now. I am looking for
something in the $2000 price range. In my opinion it's bette rto have a second bik eI do use, than
having a bike I don't use.

> Just out of curiosity, are you thinking of a 12 year old bike as being particularly aged in
> some way?
Well, it has 150.000 km's on the odometer. The paint is getting off and I use it nowadays as a
winter bike on roads that have salt.

> What part of SLX is not safe for descending?
The frame is far less stable than oversized frames. Whenever I ride with one hand on the steer the
frame shakes. The same happens when I descend fast.The frame "shivers".

> While I understand the desire to lower the weight on a bike that will be used for climbing, don't
> forget that saving 1 or 2 lbs off the bike makes a very small difference in the overall
> bike+rider weight.
That's true.

>Would I be wrong to assume the concerns you have about your SLX frame will likely be duplicated by
>any other wonder-material light weight bike you replace it with?
I think a modern steel frame that is oversized could be very interesting. Maybe you could have a
look at the Duell page? (www.duell.nl). They build lightweight steel frames that weigh around
2000 grams.

> On another note, do you need to stick with D-A level components? I'm sure you can find enough
> parts to keep the bike going without the requirement to keep everything at the DA pricepoint.
It's not really necessary, but I like the fact that the STI's don't make any noise, unlike teh
Ultegra's.

> integrate just fine with a 12 year old D-A group. Shifters and cassettes for older systems are
> honestly not that tough to find though.
In France, you don't find ANY sparepart for a 8S D-A group: no chain, no cassette. I do bring these
things with me every year. Last month my stem broke. I wouldn't find that in France for a 1" fork.

>can't get the point of non-sponsored riders using Dura Ace equipment"
The STi's don't rattle and the springs of the brakes are better. And it shines nicer, plus it's 300
grams lighter than ultegra (1gram=1$).

Greets, Derk (who hates SPAM!)

 

[Hugfly]

Derk who, like so many others, hates spam wrote:

>> I can understand wanting to leave a bike in France so you don't have to cart one with you every
>> year, but for 6 weeks of riding a year couldn't you get by with a mid-price offering like, say, a
>> Bianchi CDI or Veloce? Were I in your position, I would probably look for a used road bike, but
>> that's just me.
> The problem is that I have a bike that I never use. I built myself a cross bike, but I never feel
> like crossing, so I figured I would be better off with a bike I would use and that I can leave in
> France. The fact is that my dealer offers me the same amount I paid for it *IF* I buy a somewhat
> more expensive bike back, so buying something cheap is not interesting now. I am looking for
> something in the $2000 price range. In my opinion it's bette rto have a second bik eI do use, than
> having a bike I don't use.
>

WOW, that sounds like a great deal. That certainly changes things. If you can trade in your 'cross
bike, spend $300 and get a $2300 road bike, I'd say why not do it.

Then again, you could spend $50-$100 on new tires and ride the cross bike on the road. I love my
cross bike turned road bike.

>
>> What part of SLX is not safe for descending?
> The frame is far less stable than oversized frames. Whenever I ride with one hand on the steer the
> frame shakes. The same happens when I descend fast.The frame "shivers".

Well, this can be an artifact of the design as much as it is of the tubing itself. While the source
of frame shimmy can be a matter of significant debate... I am comfortable with the idea that bikes
with slacker angles and possibly thicker tubes tend to shimmy less.

For what it's worth, I've always avoided 'racing' and crit geometry bikes and I've never had any
problems with frame shimmy. Admittedly, this falls somewhat short of a rigorous scientific analysis.

>> Would I be wrong to assume the concerns you have about your SLX frame will likely be duplicated
>> by any other wonder-material light weight bike you replace it with?
> I think a modern steel frame that is oversized could be very interesting. Maybe you could have a
> look at the Duell page? (www.duell.nl). They build lightweight steel frames that weigh around
> 2000 grams.
>

Nice looking bikes! I didn't manage to find any geometry charts... so it's hard for me to try and
guess how they might behave on descents. They do seem to be pretty standard racing bikes, so my
suspicion is that they are designed:

1. for weight - the racing crowd seems excessively focused on bike weight

2. for quick handling - crit style geometry seems to be all anyone wants these days. Given that one
can design for stability or quick handling, I'd say a crit style bike is not your best bet as a
good descender.

3. for the marketing department - I'm sure these bikes are very well made, but the carbon rear end
business is pure foolishness. I guess one does have to give the people what they want in order to
stay in business though.

>> On another note, do you need to stick with D-A level components? I'm sure you can find enough
>> parts to keep the bike going without the requirement to keep everything at the DA pricepoint.
> It's not really necessary, but I like the fact that the STI's don't make any noise, unlike teh
> Ultegra's.
>

I could see that. Personally, I would be unlikely to pay much extra for the lack of noise, but
that's a personal preference, and I'm... somewhat thrifty.

>> integrate just fine with a 12 year old D-A group. Shifters and cassettes for older systems are
>> honestly not that tough to find though.
> In France, you don't find ANY sparepart for a 8S D-A group: no chain, no cassette. I do bring
> these things with me every year. Last month my stem broke. I wouldn't find that in France for a
> 1" fork.

Yow. That's disappointing.

>> can't get the point of non-sponsored riders using Dura Ace equipment"
> The STi's don't rattle and the springs of the brakes are better. And it shines nicer, plus it's
> 300 grams lighter than ultegra (1gram=1$).

I have to admit I'm a sucker for a nice shine.

Hugh "12 year old equipment is often too modern for my taste" Flynn Roslindale, MA

 

[Ronald]

> > What about a no nonsense Jan Jansen Paris-Nice
> Ugly, ugly , ugly: oversized aluminium. I know they're Ok, but I really can't stand the sight of
> such an ugly frame........

If you're considering Colnago and steel why not the Master X-Light?

"Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hi Lou,
>
> > What about a no nonsense Jan Jansen Paris-Nice
> Ugly, ugly , ugly: oversized aluminium. I know they're Ok, but I really can't stand the sight of
> such an ugly frame........
>
> I once had an aluminium frame and I sold it, because I heard all the
noices
> being amplified through the oversized aluminium.
>
> > or a Pinarello Prince (not the SL).
> Are there several Prince's?
>
>
> > Hiermee moet het toch lukken 6 weken per jaar.
> het *kan* wel, maar ik wil graag iets leuks ;-)
>
> > Lou, I thought I have problems ;-)
> trust me: I have worse problems than this, but I must trade in this frame
I
> have now and that I don't use or I won't have a bike during my holiday.
>
> So, Lou, what do you think of the Duell frames?
>
> Greets, Derk

 

[Ronald]

> > If you're considering Colnago and steel why not the Master X-Light?
> I spoke to a Colnago sales rep and he told me that one has to wait AL LEAST for 8 months before a
> MXlight is ready......

Wow, that's absurd, luckely i got mine second hand. If you don't mind the extra weight (i think mine
weights 1900 g frame only for 62cm) for a steel frame, it's a really nice ride. I got it as a "bad
weather bike" and found myself prefering it over my Specialized M4 which was twice as expensive and
gives a much harsher ride (with same tyres, wheels, handlebars and seat).

"Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Ronald wrote:
>
> > If you're considering Colnago and steel why not the Master X-Light?
> I spoke to a Colnago sales rep and he told me that one has to wait AL LEAST for 8 months before a
> MXlight is ready......
>
>
> Greets, Derk