1" to 1" 1/8 steering

[mrvlhs]

Well... threadless 1" forks are more expensive than the threaded one I have seen so I'll pass and I'll trust you ond the 1"1/8 fork so I'll pass that one too. I've been always looking for aluminum forks, nothing else, and that's what I'm gonna get.

That leaves me with the locknut issue. I still have the top of the sawed fork with the locknut in it, I'm just not sure if I can remove it as I don't have a lathe? to hold it neither the right wrench. It was sawed off at my LBS. I might talk to the guy and ask him for help or to just let me use his tools and try it for myself. I'm just concerned about not damaging it. I was thinking about maybe unscrewing it upward to leave room to file it down near the sawed part and then screwing it down hoping it will fall off.

Many stores are telling me that they either don't have locknuts or only sell the full headset. Few actually sell the locknut (I found a really inexpensive one) but all of them are iron. I think mine is aluminum and I'd like to keep it that way, it's easier than having to grease it not to galvanize - it would be a pain if I ever did some kind of maintenance and ever forgot it was two types of metal together, ending up with them sticking together. Also, I don't want it to rust. The guy where I did the job said he might have some aluminum one around, for me to pass by. Let's see how that goes, but I'd really prefer to recover my old one.

 

[alfeng]

Well... threadless 1" forks are more expensive than the threaded one I have seen so I'll pass and I'll trust you ond the 1"1/8 fork so I'll pass that one too. I've been always looking for aluminum forks, nothing else, and that's what I'm gonna get.

EWww!?!

I don't think that I am alone in suggesting that an aluminum fork is the worst option ...​

Aluminum has the worst fatigue characteristics of almost all materials available ...

And, while the first generation of aluminum forks were actually very expensive, they fell out of favor after only a few years due to the introduction of readily available carbon fiber forks which were as light-or-lighter while providing the ride characteristics of a good steel fork and certainly being capable of withstanding more miles of use without concern for material fatigue ...​

IMO, whatever aluminum fork you are looking at had better not cost more than $20(US) ...​

FWIW. I think that the fork is actually the most under appreciated (i.e., important!?!) part of the bicycle with regard to how a bike handles and consequently rider safety, too ... others may disagree ...

I think that while an aluminum fork may be "okay" in some situations, I would probably not be inclined to install one on a bike I planned to ride at speeds faster than a modest 10mph ...

AND/OR, I would probably limit the use to under 3000 miles (yes, that's a very arbitrary distance).​

That leaves me with the locknut issue. I still have the top of the sawed fork with the locknut in it, I'm just not sure if I can remove it as I don't have a lathe? to hold it neither the right wrench. It was sawed off at my LBS. I might talk to the guy and ask him for help or to just let me use his tools and try it for myself. I'm just concerned about not damaging it. I was thinking about maybe unscrewing it upward to leave room to file it down near the sawed part and then screwing it down hoping it will fall off.

You can probably use a plumber's PIPE WRENCH to hold the remnant of the assembly which appears to be stuck to the steerer above the locknut ...

And then, use a large crescent wrench to hold the locknut (there IS a dedicated headset wrench which you can buy ... two are better, but you really need at least one headset wrench + either a large crescent wrench or smooth jawed vice to lock the lockring against the upper cup ... THAT's an added cost which a threadless fork & headset do not incur) while you try to remove it from the pictured assembly ...​

IF you cannot find an aluminum locknut, then you can probably cut a washer from a milk jug cap or similar soft plastic to preclude the direct contact of two disparate metals ...

Periodic maintenance (i.e., removal to grease the bearings) will preclude the headset parts from welding to one another.​

 

[mrvlhs]

I don't get why suddently you're getting all dramatic. This is a BH road bike that had a Kinesis 6061 alu fork and was used in "Volta de Portugal" by a famous cyclist many years ago, so I'd imagine it drove in excess of 40mph many times as it did in my hands. The only reason I'm changing the fork is because I had an accident with it.

Thank you for the help on the lock nut, the pipe wrench is a good idea. I do not get what you mean by using the milk jug cap as a replacement for the lock nut. How could that be?

 

[alfeng]

I don't get why suddently you're getting all dramatic. This is a BH road bike that had a Kinesis 6061 alu fork and was used in "Volta de Portugal" by a famous cyclist many years ago, so I'd imagine it drove in excess of 40mph many times as it did in my hands. The only reason I'm changing the fork is because I had an accident with it.

HMmmm ...

What may-or-may-not have been a great option for a make-it-as-light-as-possible racing bicycle for in the 90s for a stage race which probably included about 1500 miles of racing isn't necessarily the best option 20 +/- years later ...

I would guess that no professional teams have had bikes which were equipped with an aluminum fork since 1999-at-the-latest ...

As I said, at one time an aluminum fork would have been very expensive.

You can consider my arbitrary "under 3000 miles" (it was an AND/OR qualification with the OR being if you used the bike at more than "jogging" speed) to be 2x the length of the Volta de Portugal ...
​

Of all the options which are available, I just know that it is one I would not choose unless the other options were not immediately available.

I actually bought a Kinesis fork to use (what was I thinking?) at one time which I never got around to installing on any of MY bikes (thank goodness for procrastination!?!) until someone I knew wanted me to cobble up a bike for him to use (I was pretty sure that he wouldn't be putting more than 2000 miles on the bike before either abandoning cycling or buying another bike ... he bought another bike ... I put the NOS Kinesis fork on the bike because he had a price point which I was trying to meet ... ) ... that was well over a decade ago.

The Kinesis fork had an acceptable ride because I built the bike with 700x25 Michelin tires ...

The "fast kids" have only recently re-discovered what less sporty riders have always known with regard to tire size and road vibration ...
​

The Kinesis aluminum fork is just the wrong "tool" for the present time ...

A stone axe can fell a tree ... in fact, I recall that it had once been demonstrated that it can be as efficient as a steel headed axe to cut down a modest sized tree ... but, the edge can only be knapped so-many-times before it is no longer viable due to diminished size of the stone axe head after X-number of knappings ...

Similarly, a bronze axe head can probably be almost as efficient; but, how long can it be used before it has to be melted down and re-cast?
​

The ride characteristics of an aluminum fork ALSO make it less desirable ...

Shortly after the turn-of-the-Century (around 2002), I changed out a Kinesis aluminum fork which was on a friend's GIANT CADEX (CF tubes joined with aluminum lugs) to a Kestrel carbon fiber fork, and he said that the difference in the quality of the ride was noticeable (in a good way) ...

So, I do know that you can safely log thousands of miles on an aluminum fork, but I just wouldn't bother.
​

Regardless, I definitely feel do NOT pay a lot for the fork you have in mind.
​

BTW. At one time, BIAS PLY tires were the only kind available for automobiles ...

Consequently, there can be little doubt that even Ferrari & Porsche raced-and-won with Bias Ply tires at one time ...
​

At one time, all automobile tires had inner tubes ...

Again, there can be little doubt that even Ferrari and Porsche raced-and-won with tires which used inner tubes!
​

Unless you are restoring the bike to look a certain way (there are hundreds of people for whom having a period perfect bike is important ... nothing wrong with that), I will continue to suggest that opting for an aluminum fork is not the ideal option in 2016 AND in the long run it will be worth the difference to buy a steel or CF fork ...
​

BTW. Unless you have one of the fore mentioned headset wrenches (you really should have two -- the size is pretty standard), then that is a cost (EITHER for your own tools OR what you pay a shop for the installation) which should probably be factored into your equation vs. a threadless fork whose installation only requires a 5mm Allen Wrench (some stems, as you may already know, have bolts which use a 4mm Allen Wrench; so, you may need two different Allen Wrenches for a threadless fork the installation) ...

The least expensive set of Metric Allen Wrenches can be bought for $2-or-less ...

You can pay more, of course.​

FYI. At one time, the Shimano headsets required a proprietary headset wrench (the outside edge of the respective nuts were fluted) ...

Undoubtedly, that is just ONE of the reasons that the particular headset was never embraced; and, Shimano reverted to headsets which used normal headset wrenches.

Although it IS necessary to protect some patents, Shimano's bean counters apparent desire to have proprietary (i.e., requiring a license to make compatible components) specs more-often-than-not is one of their poorly thought out, MBA-inspired business practices ...

I know that I appreciate components which can be worked on with common tools; so, I suspect that is the case with many others, too.
​

The off-topic point being that when Shimano abandoned their fluted headset nuts, I was all-in on their headsets.​

The long-winded-and-circuitously-attempted point is that if you were to install another Kinesis fork on your bike, it is more-than-likely a case of penny-wise-and-pound-foolish ...

So, as I tried to suggest, if I were on a tight budget then I would consider trying to remove the threads on the upper cup to allow me to continue to use the existing headset in a threadless fork installation ...

But, it is your time-and-money.​

Thank you for the help on the lock nut, the pipe wrench is a good idea. I do not get what you mean by using the milk jug cap as a replacement for the lock nut. How could that be?

Sorry for the confusion ...

This is apparently a nomenclature issue, again ...​

A washer fabricated from a milk jug or other soft plastic could be used as an intermediate barrier between the headset's upper cup & the lock nut if you cannot find an alloy lock nut and if you are concerned about the disparate metals.

 

[mrvlhs]

Thanks for the valuable information. I'm not getting aluminum because it's cheaper, in fact, it's more expensive than it's cromoli counterparts. I tried to find a steel fork today but there was none of the proper length for me so I bought the aluminum one for 50 bucks instead of 100 for the carbon fiber one.

I don't think I will be doing that much maintenance myself on the headset so i don't really care to spend money on changing it to threadless.

I managed to get the lock nut out and, apparently, I also have a lock ring

Now, in the new fork the crown race is wiggly. The old fork had a little metal washer with dimples that worked fine but the same washer doesn't work in this fork because the fork is a tiny bit thicker (I think the old one was filed down). I used your milk ring washer idea to fix this, I'm just unsure about safety and longevity, please let me know what you think (see photo). Also, should the crown race be able to rotate with pressure from my hands when sitting flush?

Thanks!

 

[mrvlhs]

This is how it looks. (note: doesn't go all around, just in the front)

 

[alfeng]

Now, in the new fork the crown race is wiggly. The old fork had a little metal washer with dimples that worked fine but the same washer doesn't work in this fork because the fork is a tiny bit thicker (I think the old one was filed down). I used your milk ring washer idea to fix this, I'm just unsure about safety and longevity, please let me know what you think (see photo). Also, should the crown race be able to rotate with pressure from my hands when sitting flush?

Thanks!

I believe that you have stacked the headset's components incorrectly ...

The blue plastic collar is probably damaged ... it should probably, fully encircle the steerer ...

Regardless, if the blue collar is original to the headset, then it is EITHER upside-down OR it possibly belongs with the upper assembly.

It is probably an expansion collar ... but, maybe not!?!​

The conical lower assembly is, AFAIK, typically used with needle/roller bearings ... it isn't clear from the picture with the headset components in the background, but it looks like you have a set of CAGED BALL BEARINGS which are typically a part of a cup-and-cone assembly ...

BTW. I presume that the 'silver' cone which is sleeved onto the fork's steerer is some sort of (roller) bearing assembly ...

Is that right?!?
​

In other words, if you have shown all of the components to your headset AND if the caged bearings in the background are BALL BEARINGS then there is something wrong with the headset which you have ...

If you have pictured ALL of the components, then some things are possibly missing!?!

AND/OR, your headset was a combination cobbled together from different headsets (other than a possible conflict in the headset's cosmetics, there is nothing wrong with THAT if the parts which are supposed to mate do).

BTW. MOST-if-not-All Shimano headsets had bearings held in cartridges; so, I may have been mistaken in thinking that you had a Shimano headset.
​

Hopefully, dabac is still reading this thread because he has certainly seen more headsets than I have ...

oldbobcat has undoubtedly worked with a greater variety of headsets than I have, too; and so, he may be able to give you relevant advice .
​

BTW. It should NOT be possible to rotate the crown race when it is installed on the fork (there were TWO different sizes ... with the more recent size having a 0.2mm smaller Inner Diameter). If you are going to shim it, you want something more substantial (e.g., brass stock or a strip cut from a tin can ... CLEAN-and-debur the edges of any metal you cut BEFORE wrapping it around the steerer).

 

[mrvlhs]

You are confused... the blue collar was taken from the yogurt bottle.

My headset isn't missing anything, thank you for the concern. The rest of it was on the bike.

In regards to the rotation, I used a shim that was used with the older fork and now it's locked wonderfuly. It had to be done with a specific metal tube to whack it in.

All of the material you see was taken from the bike, put in a box and in a backpack and went with me on about 150 miles of errands on my bike. When I returned to the shop today, the guy didn't even clean anything, he just greased the headset and stuck it in. I frowned a little. Don't you think it should've been cleaned before? I rather do it now while the the 1-1/8" adapter isn't in place than a few months from now.

My last concern is, should the spacers go above or below the locknut?

 

[alfeng]

You are confused... the blue collar was taken from the yogurt bottle.

Indeed!

Neither the first nor the last time a random object leaves me confused ...​

... When I returned to the shop today, the guy didn't even clean anything, he just greased the headset and stuck it in. I frowned a little. Don't you think it should've been cleaned before? I rather do it now while the the 1-1/8" adapter isn't in place than a few months from now.

YES ....

It would NOT occur to me to reassemble a headset without ensuring that the parts were clean ...​

BTW. I had an "editorial" comment, but ...

My last concern is, should the spacers go above or below the locknut?

FYI. In theory, the headset's locknut should have a LIP which would preclude allowing any of the steerer's threads to be exposed ABOVE THE NUT after the locknut is screwed-and-tightened on the fork ...

And so, typically the steerer necessarily has to be a bit shorter than the stack to allow the nut to be threaded on tightly ...

If the locknut does not have the fore mentioned "lip" which would prevent it from being screwed down further then you can

1. either TRIM the steerer to an appropriate length for the head tube & specific headset's stack height ...
2. or stack the spacers between the two threaded portions as you are suggesting (that's NOT what I would probably do just because I am used to trimming the steerer to the correct length AND because it never occurred to me to add spacers between below the locknut; BUT, spacers for 1" steerers really weren't readily available before threadless forks were introduced) ...
3. or merely stack a minimal amount (e.g., 5mm-or-less) to facilitate locking the lockring AND/OR allowing for a possible cable hanger in the future AND/OR to allow the use of a different headset which might have a taller stack height in the future.

THAT's my way of saying that it never occurred to me to stack the spacers below the locknut; but, that doesn't meant that it isn't a good idea ...

AND, I guess it never occurred to me not to simply slam an auxiliary quill adapter all the way down against the headset which would pretty much put the handlebar where a "regular" quill stem would locate it.
​

Someone else may want to chime in and explain which option you should lean toward and/or choose.

​