M
Mark Thompson
Guest
SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
come with their ten speed chains resuable?
come with their ten speed chains resuable?
T
Tony Raven
Guest
Mark Thompson wrote on 20/05/2007 20:28 +0100:
> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
> come with their ten speed chains resuable?
Up to a point as the pins wear on the powerlink as well as on the chain.
I generally find a powerlink will last for two chains before I feel it
has gone too far. The advantage is you can actually take it out and
inspect the wear on the pin which you can't do on the rest of the chain
(well not non-destructively anyway)
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
> come with their ten speed chains resuable?
Up to a point as the pins wear on the powerlink as well as on the chain.
I generally find a powerlink will last for two chains before I feel it
has gone too far. The advantage is you can actually take it out and
inspect the wear on the pin which you can't do on the rest of the chain
(well not non-destructively anyway)
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
T
Tony Raven
Guest
Tony Raven wrote on 20/05/2007 20:38 +0100:
> Mark Thompson wrote on 20/05/2007 20:28 +0100:
>> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks
>> that come with their ten speed chains resuable?
>
> Up to a point as the pins wear on the powerlink as well as on the chain.
> I generally find a powerlink will last for two chains before I feel it
> has gone too far. The advantage is you can actually take it out and
> inspect the wear on the pin which you can't do on the rest of the chain
> (well not non-destructively anyway)
>
Whoops sorry, the Powerlocks are not reusable and SRAM actually
recommend you should break the chain at a different place than the
Powerlock although you can use another Powerlock to rejoin it
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
> Mark Thompson wrote on 20/05/2007 20:28 +0100:
>> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks
>> that come with their ten speed chains resuable?
>
> Up to a point as the pins wear on the powerlink as well as on the chain.
> I generally find a powerlink will last for two chains before I feel it
> has gone too far. The advantage is you can actually take it out and
> inspect the wear on the pin which you can't do on the rest of the chain
> (well not non-destructively anyway)
>
Whoops sorry, the Powerlocks are not reusable and SRAM actually
recommend you should break the chain at a different place than the
Powerlock although you can use another Powerlock to rejoin it
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
M
mb
Guest
On Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:45 +0000, Mark Thompson wrote:
> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
> come with their ten speed chains resuable?
I don't think they are meant to be.
--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel
> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
> come with their ten speed chains resuable?
I don't think they are meant to be.
--
Mike
Van Tuyl titanium Dura Ace 10
Fausto Coppi aluminium Ultegra 10
Raleigh Record Sprint mongrel
T
Tony Raven
Guest
mb wrote on 20/05/2007 21:03 +0100:
> On Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:45 +0000, Mark Thompson wrote:
>
>> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
>> come with their ten speed chains resuable?
>
> I don't think they are meant to be.
>
KMC do a ten speed reusuable link though. At £2.99 for two they are a
lot cheaper than the non-reusable £9.99 for four of the Powerlink.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3a7kpr
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
> On Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:45 +0000, Mark Thompson wrote:
>
>> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the powerlocks that
>> come with their ten speed chains resuable?
>
> I don't think they are meant to be.
>
KMC do a ten speed reusuable link though. At £2.99 for two they are a
lot cheaper than the non-reusable £9.99 for four of the Powerlink.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/3a7kpr
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
D
Daniel Barlow
Guest
Tony Raven wrote:
> mb wrote on 20/05/2007 21:03 +0100:
>> On Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:45 +0000, Mark Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the
>>> powerlocks that come with their ten speed chains resuable?
>>
>> I don't think they are meant to be.
>>
>
> KMC do a ten speed reusuable link though. At £2.99 for two they are a
> lot cheaper than the non-reusable £9.99 for four of the Powerlink.
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3a7kpr
Ah, SWK. Maybe you can answer my question too, which is "are 10 speed
chains all pretty much compatible, or is running 10 speed shimano HG
chain on campag mech/sprockets a dumb idea?" Paying over £20 for a
chain seems like, I dunno, lots of money. But trashing the mech or
sprockets is probably even more expensive ...
-dan
> mb wrote on 20/05/2007 21:03 +0100:
>> On Sun, 20 May 2007 19:28:45 +0000, Mark Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> SRAM powerlinks are fantastically reusable things. Are the
>>> powerlocks that come with their ten speed chains resuable?
>>
>> I don't think they are meant to be.
>>
>
> KMC do a ten speed reusuable link though. At £2.99 for two they are a
> lot cheaper than the non-reusable £9.99 for four of the Powerlink.
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/3a7kpr
Ah, SWK. Maybe you can answer my question too, which is "are 10 speed
chains all pretty much compatible, or is running 10 speed shimano HG
chain on campag mech/sprockets a dumb idea?" Paying over £20 for a
chain seems like, I dunno, lots of money. But trashing the mech or
sprockets is probably even more expensive ...
-dan
T
Tony Raven
Guest
Daniel Barlow wrote on 20/05/2007 22:00 +0100:
>
> Ah, SWK. Maybe you can answer my question too, which is "are 10 speed
> chains all pretty much compatible, or is running 10 speed shimano HG
> chain on campag mech/sprockets a dumb idea?" Paying over £20 for a
> chain seems like, I dunno, lots of money. But trashing the mech or
> sprockets is probably even more expensive ...
>
They are all interchangeable within one speed. I would get the cheapest
Shimano or KMC and a couple of the KMC joining links. The joining pin
is usually the weakest point on the chain unless done properly and the
link removes that problem.
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
>
> Ah, SWK. Maybe you can answer my question too, which is "are 10 speed
> chains all pretty much compatible, or is running 10 speed shimano HG
> chain on campag mech/sprockets a dumb idea?" Paying over £20 for a
> chain seems like, I dunno, lots of money. But trashing the mech or
> sprockets is probably even more expensive ...
>
They are all interchangeable within one speed. I would get the cheapest
Shimano or KMC and a couple of the KMC joining links. The joining pin
is usually the weakest point on the chain unless done properly and the
link removes that problem.
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
D
Daniel Barlow
Guest
Tony Raven wrote:
> They are all interchangeable within one speed. I would get the cheapest
> Shimano or KMC and a couple of the KMC joining links. The joining pin
> is usually the weakest point on the chain unless done properly and the
> link removes that problem.
Ah, thank you. And thank you also to Pete Biggs for his comment (some
years ago, found with Google Groups) that "Buying Campag from Wiggle is
the same as shoving fivers down the drain" and pointer to Parker.
Suddenly 10 speed looks a lot more affordable
-dan
> They are all interchangeable within one speed. I would get the cheapest
> Shimano or KMC and a couple of the KMC joining links. The joining pin
> is usually the weakest point on the chain unless done properly and the
> link removes that problem.
Ah, thank you. And thank you also to Pete Biggs for his comment (some
years ago, found with Google Groups) that "Buying Campag from Wiggle is
the same as shoving fivers down the drain" and pointer to Parker.
Suddenly 10 speed looks a lot more affordable
-dan
P
Pete Biggs
Guest
Daniel Barlow wrote:
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> They are all interchangeable within one speed. I would get the
>> cheapest Shimano or KMC and a couple of the KMC joining links. The
>> joining pin is usually the weakest point on the chain unless done
>> properly and the link removes that problem.
>
> Ah, thank you. And thank you also to Pete Biggs for his comment (some
> years ago, found with Google Groups) that "Buying Campag from Wiggle
> is the same as shoving fivers down the drain" and pointer to Parker.
> Suddenly 10 speed looks a lot more affordable
And I'm still here these years later
You're welcome Dan. http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsC18.aspx is a good
source as well now, especially if just ordering one item as they do "free
post".
For Campag 10-speed, I like the idea of sticking with chains as narrow as
the Campag Ultra Narrow to minimise noise. (That is what they were
invented for. The 5.9mm Ultra Narrow replaced the previous 6.1mm 10-speed
chain). This can be joined with a Wipperman Conex link ("Shimano" version).
I don't remember how wide KMC chains are. /Internal/ width of all 10-speed
chains will be very similar, so they'll all drive OK, but the wider the
chain is altogether, the more likely it is to rub against adjacent
sprockets. Shifters aren't perfectly precise; it helps to have some leeway.
~PB
> Tony Raven wrote:
>> They are all interchangeable within one speed. I would get the
>> cheapest Shimano or KMC and a couple of the KMC joining links. The
>> joining pin is usually the weakest point on the chain unless done
>> properly and the link removes that problem.
>
> Ah, thank you. And thank you also to Pete Biggs for his comment (some
> years ago, found with Google Groups) that "Buying Campag from Wiggle
> is the same as shoving fivers down the drain" and pointer to Parker.
> Suddenly 10 speed looks a lot more affordable
And I'm still here these years later
You're welcome Dan. http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsC18.aspx is a good
source as well now, especially if just ordering one item as they do "free
post".
For Campag 10-speed, I like the idea of sticking with chains as narrow as
the Campag Ultra Narrow to minimise noise. (That is what they were
invented for. The 5.9mm Ultra Narrow replaced the previous 6.1mm 10-speed
chain). This can be joined with a Wipperman Conex link ("Shimano" version).
I don't remember how wide KMC chains are. /Internal/ width of all 10-speed
chains will be very similar, so they'll all drive OK, but the wider the
chain is altogether, the more likely it is to rub against adjacent
sprockets. Shifters aren't perfectly precise; it helps to have some leeway.
~PB
P
Pete Biggs
Guest
R
Rob Morley
Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
[email protected]lid says...
<snip>
> I generally find a powerlink will last for two chains before I feel it
> has gone too far. The advantage is you can actually take it out and
> inspect the wear on the pin
You can also clean and lube it more thoroughly, so it should last a
little longer anyway.
[email protected]lid says...
<snip>
> I generally find a powerlink will last for two chains before I feel it
> has gone too far. The advantage is you can actually take it out and
> inspect the wear on the pin
You can also clean and lube it more thoroughly, so it should last a
little longer anyway.
T
TerryJ
Guest
> KMC 10-speed chain is 6.2mm according to Dotbike.
I have a 9 speed kmc chain that is supposed to be strong and I have
not snapped it. Previously I snapped a nine speed twice and another
once, so i do not trust light, thin chains.
TerryJ
P
Pete Biggs
Guest
TerryJ wrote:
>> KMC 10-speed chain is 6.2mm according to Dotbike.
>
> I have a 9 speed kmc chain that is supposed to be strong and I have
> not snapped it. Previously I snapped a nine speed twice and another
> once, so i do not trust light, thin chains.
Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I reckon is
down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern narrow chains are
strong enough for the world's most powerful road sprinters, they're strong
enough for you!
Campag have tested the strength of their 5.9mm chain and find it just as
strong as the previous 6.2mm version.
~PB
>> KMC 10-speed chain is 6.2mm according to Dotbike.
>
> I have a 9 speed kmc chain that is supposed to be strong and I have
> not snapped it. Previously I snapped a nine speed twice and another
> once, so i do not trust light, thin chains.
Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I reckon is
down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern narrow chains are
strong enough for the world's most powerful road sprinters, they're strong
enough for you!
Campag have tested the strength of their 5.9mm chain and find it just as
strong as the previous 6.2mm version.
~PB
T
Tony Raven
Guest
Pete Biggs wrote on 21/05/2007 14:46 +0100:
>
> Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I reckon is
> down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern narrow chains are
> strong enough for the world's most powerful road sprinters, they're strong
> enough for you!
>
Except they aren't:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html
(Article by Lennard Zinn on 10 speed chain breakages and how to minimise
them)
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
>
> Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I reckon is
> down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern narrow chains are
> strong enough for the world's most powerful road sprinters, they're strong
> enough for you!
>
Except they aren't:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html
(Article by Lennard Zinn on 10 speed chain breakages and how to minimise
them)
--
Tony
"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell
P
Pete Biggs
Guest
Tony Raven wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote on 21/05/2007 14:46 +0100:
>>
>> Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I
>> reckon is down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern
>> narrow chains are strong enough for the world's most powerful road
>> sprinters, they're strong enough for you!
>>
>
> Except they aren't:
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html
> (Article by Lennard Zinn on 10 speed chain breakages and how to
> minimise them)
Zinn says:
"While you rarely see a broken chain in the professional peloton, you
certainly do see it among everyday enthusiasts nowadays with 10-speed chains
far more frequently than you used to with 9-speed chains, and especially
more so than in the old days when riders used 5-, 6-, 7-, and 8-speed
chains. Back then breakage on a road bike was practically unheard of."
Not sure I believe that. I've heard of loads of breakages with old 5 to
8-speed chains and experienced trouble with them myself as well. The links
weren't so firmly rivetted as those of today's high-end 9 and 10-speed
chains, and the use of Powerlink type links was less common, so the chain
was more likely to be bodged.
"If the connector pin, which everyone would agree is the weakest point
in the chain, happens to be on the link that is simultaneously engaging two
cogs, you are asking for trouble if your connector pin was installed
improperly."
Well, people should install it properly then, or preferably use a special
connecting link instead.
~PB
> Pete Biggs wrote on 21/05/2007 14:46 +0100:
>>
>> Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I
>> reckon is down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern
>> narrow chains are strong enough for the world's most powerful road
>> sprinters, they're strong enough for you!
>>
>
> Except they aren't:
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html
> (Article by Lennard Zinn on 10 speed chain breakages and how to
> minimise them)
Zinn says:
"While you rarely see a broken chain in the professional peloton, you
certainly do see it among everyday enthusiasts nowadays with 10-speed chains
far more frequently than you used to with 9-speed chains, and especially
more so than in the old days when riders used 5-, 6-, 7-, and 8-speed
chains. Back then breakage on a road bike was practically unheard of."
Not sure I believe that. I've heard of loads of breakages with old 5 to
8-speed chains and experienced trouble with them myself as well. The links
weren't so firmly rivetted as those of today's high-end 9 and 10-speed
chains, and the use of Powerlink type links was less common, so the chain
was more likely to be bodged.
"If the connector pin, which everyone would agree is the weakest point
in the chain, happens to be on the link that is simultaneously engaging two
cogs, you are asking for trouble if your connector pin was installed
improperly."
Well, people should install it properly then, or preferably use a special
connecting link instead.
~PB
S
Simon Brooke
Guest
in message <[email protected]>, TerryJ
('[email protected]') wrote:
>> KMC 10-speed chain is 6.2mm according to Dotbike.
>
> I have a 9 speed kmc chain that is supposed to be strong and I have
> not snapped it. Previously I snapped a nine speed twice and another
> once, so i do not trust light, thin chains.
As Pete Biggs says, you need to look at how you join chains. But I think
you also need to look at your cadence - if you're breaking chains you're
almost certainly knackering your knees.
--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.
('[email protected]') wrote:
>> KMC 10-speed chain is 6.2mm according to Dotbike.
>
> I have a 9 speed kmc chain that is supposed to be strong and I have
> not snapped it. Previously I snapped a nine speed twice and another
> once, so i do not trust light, thin chains.
As Pete Biggs says, you need to look at how you join chains. But I think
you also need to look at your cadence - if you're breaking chains you're
almost certainly knackering your knees.
--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; making jokes about dyslexia isn't big, it isn't clever and
;; it isn't furry.
S
Simon Brooke
Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Tony Raven
('[email protected]') wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote on 21/05/2007 14:46 +0100:
>>
>> Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I reckon
>> is
>> down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern narrow chains are
>> strong enough for the world's most powerful road sprinters, they're
>> strong enough for you!
>
> Except they aren't:
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html
> (Article by Lennard Zinn on 10 speed chain breakages and how to minimise
> them)
Brief summary: one pro rider broke one nine speed chain once, while an
amateur broke a number of ten speed chains. I'm not saying pro riders
never break ten speed chains - I saw Bettini break a chain in one of the
Belgian classics this year, and he's scarcely a heavy guy - but chain
breakage is still exceedingly rare in the pro peloton, and they're all on
ten speed these days. And they climb and sprint with more power than you
or I ever will.
You don't see big Magnus Backstedt (racing weight: 94Kg, almost 15 stone)
having problems with broken chains. He has reputedly broken a lot of
frames this year, but not chains. You don't see Tom Boonen (82Kg) or Thor
Hushovd (81Kg) having problems with broken chains, and they don't mess
about when it comes to sprinting.
Part of this, of course, is that professionals' bikes are very well
maintained by the best mechanics available, and I suspect they replace
chains much more frequently than you or I do. They certainly inspect and
clean chains much more frequently than some people do.
Big Magnus is riding a Campag Record 10 speed Ultra chain, just like mine.
If he can't break it, I don't expect to.
--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"
('[email protected]') wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote on 21/05/2007 14:46 +0100:
>>
>> Unless it's a really dodgy cheap and nasty brand, chain failure I reckon
>> is
>> down to poor joining or some other abuse. If modern narrow chains are
>> strong enough for the world's most powerful road sprinters, they're
>> strong enough for you!
>
> Except they aren't:
> http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/tech/articles/8534.0.html
> (Article by Lennard Zinn on 10 speed chain breakages and how to minimise
> them)
Brief summary: one pro rider broke one nine speed chain once, while an
amateur broke a number of ten speed chains. I'm not saying pro riders
never break ten speed chains - I saw Bettini break a chain in one of the
Belgian classics this year, and he's scarcely a heavy guy - but chain
breakage is still exceedingly rare in the pro peloton, and they're all on
ten speed these days. And they climb and sprint with more power than you
or I ever will.
You don't see big Magnus Backstedt (racing weight: 94Kg, almost 15 stone)
having problems with broken chains. He has reputedly broken a lot of
frames this year, but not chains. You don't see Tom Boonen (82Kg) or Thor
Hushovd (81Kg) having problems with broken chains, and they don't mess
about when it comes to sprinting.
Part of this, of course, is that professionals' bikes are very well
maintained by the best mechanics available, and I suspect they replace
chains much more frequently than you or I do. They certainly inspect and
clean chains much more frequently than some people do.
Big Magnus is riding a Campag Record 10 speed Ultra chain, just like mine.
If he can't break it, I don't expect to.
--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Human history becomes more and more a race between
;; education and catastrophe.
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"
T
TerryJ
Guest
'''A chain breaks when a link plate gets pried off of the end of a
chain rivet. On a road bike, this is most likely to happen when the
rider is shifting under load, particularly in the rear.'''
the chain that broke twice came with a brand new dahon jetstream xp
and was a fancy lightweight with little holes in it .It snapped
through mid shaft of the side plates, nowhere near the pins, when in a
lowish but not bottom gear , once when I arrived at the bottom of a
1in 8 and once as I set off enthusiastically at traffic lights.I weigh
95 kg..''
TerryJ
chain rivet. On a road bike, this is most likely to happen when the
rider is shifting under load, particularly in the rear.'''
the chain that broke twice came with a brand new dahon jetstream xp
and was a fancy lightweight with little holes in it .It snapped
through mid shaft of the side plates, nowhere near the pins, when in a
lowish but not bottom gear , once when I arrived at the bottom of a
1in 8 and once as I set off enthusiastically at traffic lights.I weigh
95 kg..''
TerryJ
T
TerryJ
Guest
O
>
> Part of this, of course, is that professionals' bikes are very well
> maintained by the best mechanics available, and I suspect they replace
> chains much more frequently than you or I do. They certainly inspect and
> clean chains much more frequently than some people do.
If you have a chain that needs extremely careful fitting to avoid
failure, must be kept always clean and chucked after a thousand miles
then you are welcome to keep it.
As I have said I never had a chain snap before that I can recall.
TerryJ
>
> Part of this, of course, is that professionals' bikes are very well
> maintained by the best mechanics available, and I suspect they replace
> chains much more frequently than you or I do. They certainly inspect and
> clean chains much more frequently than some people do.
If you have a chain that needs extremely careful fitting to avoid
failure, must be kept always clean and chucked after a thousand miles
then you are welcome to keep it.
As I have said I never had a chain snap before that I can recall.
TerryJ
T
TerryJ
Guest
H.G. Wells, "The Outline of History"
O
>
> Part of this, of course, is that professionals' bikes are very well
> maintained by the best mechanics available, and I suspect they replace
> chains much more frequently than you or I do. They certainly inspect and
> clean chains much more frequently than some people do.
If you have a chain that needs extremely careful fitting to avoid
failure, must be kept always clean and chucked after a thousand miles
then you are welcome to keep it.
As I have said I never had a chain snap before that I can recall.
TerryJ
O
>
> Part of this, of course, is that professionals' bikes are very well
> maintained by the best mechanics available, and I suspect they replace
> chains much more frequently than you or I do. They certainly inspect and
> clean chains much more frequently than some people do.
If you have a chain that needs extremely careful fitting to avoid
failure, must be kept always clean and chucked after a thousand miles
then you are welcome to keep it.
As I have said I never had a chain snap before that I can recall.
TerryJ