100IM in...

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Micheal Artindale, Feb 1, 2006.

  1. 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.

    It is my fly that is slowing me down.

    I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m. That
    likely is my problem.

    I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.

    Micheal.
     
    Tags:


  2. Mark P

    Mark P Guest

    Micheal Artindale wrote:
    > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >
    > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >
    > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m. That
    > likely is my problem.
    >
    > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    >
    > Micheal.
    >
    >


    Hey that's 1.6 Art.

    It's a stArt...
     
  3. Martin Smith

    Martin Smith Guest

    "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >
    >It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >
    >I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m. That
    >likely is my problem.


    What is your pulse rate immediately after swimming a 100IM @ 2:30?

    Swim 100 crawl at the same level of effort. What is your time?
     
  4. Micheal Artindale wrote:
    > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >
    > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >
    > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m. That
    > likely is my problem.
    >
    > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    >
    > Micheal.


    Hi, Micheal.

    Have you ever seen a good swimmer swimming 100 IM? Sometimes it helps
    to have some images in mind to know how it looks like.

    Try to download the following clips (it could take about half an hour
    each, be patient)

    (Lucas Salata) http://www.swim.ee/brazil/Lucas/sideunder09-01.mpg

    (Caio ?) http://www.swim.ee/brazil/Caio/sideunder_II06-01.mpg

    (Joanna Maranho)
    http://www.swim.ee/brazil/Joanna/sideunder_II15-01.mpg

    [There are more clips of these swimmers at
    http://www.swim.ee/brazil/brazil_index.html.]

    (Sorry for my English)
     
  5. "Mark P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Micheal Artindale wrote:
    > > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    > >
    > > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    > >
    > > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m.

    That
    > > likely is my problem.
    > >
    > > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    > >
    > > Micheal.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Hey that's 1.6 Art.


    What do you mean?

    Micheal
    >
    > It's a stArt...
     
  6. "Martin Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    > >
    > >It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    > >
    > >I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m.

    That
    > >likely is my problem.

    >
    > What is your pulse rate immediately after swimming a 100IM @ 2:30?


    Dont know. after 100 mixed strokes a month ago, i was up around 180+
    >
    > Swim 100 crawl at the same level of effort. What is your time?


    around 1:45 ish. i will find out both, and report on them

    Micheal
     
  7. jtaylor

    jtaylor Guest

    "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Mark P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Micheal Artindale wrote:
    > > > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    > > >
    > > > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    > > >
    > > > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per

    25m.
    > That
    > > > likely is my problem.
    > > >
    > > > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    > > >
    > > > Micheal.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > Hey that's 1.6 Art.

    >
    > What do you mean?
    >


    Martin has decided to start using your name as a unit of swimming speed. It
    is unlikely this is meant as anything other than derision; and is is
    regrettable that others on the newsgroup are starting to join him.

    Bullies pick on the weak.
     
  8. diablo

    diablo Guest

    "jtaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
    >
    > "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> "Mark P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> > Micheal Artindale wrote:
    >> > > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >> > >
    >> > > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >> > >
    >> > > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per

    > 25m.
    >> That
    >> > > likely is my problem.
    >> > >
    >> > > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    >> > >
    >> > > Micheal.
    >> > >
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > Hey that's 1.6 Art.

    >>
    >> What do you mean?
    >>

    >
    > Martin has decided to start using your name as a unit of swimming speed.
    > It
    > is unlikely this is meant as anything other than derision; and is is
    > regrettable that others on the newsgroup are starting to join him.
    >
    > Bullies pick on the weak.
    >
    >


    by that rationale are they also the only ones with a sense of humour?
     
  9. diablo

    diablo Guest

    "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >
    > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >
    > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m.
    > That
    > likely is my problem.
    >
    > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    >
    > Micheal.
    >
    >


    Why not try drilling your fly, rather than trying to swim full stroke? That
    will allow you work on your other strokes without being too knackered and
    can help you work on your timing.

    the usual drill for fly is 3-3-3:

    -push off in a streamlined position
    -pulling with only your right arm, keep your left arm extended out in front.
    -now switch to pulling only with your left arm, right arm extended out in
    front.
    -final '3' is both arms pulling at the same time...repeat...3 right, 3 left,
    3 together.

    Some tips for timing:

    only breathe when pulling with a single arm, when you do your stroke
    together, keep your head in...this will keep the hips high at all times, and
    allow you to breathe 60% of the drill cycle.

    The leg kick is dolphin legs at all times and is the same whether you're
    drilling single arm or double.

    Ensure you are 'kicking your hands in, and kicking them out'. As the hand
    enters the water, 'pop your hips' (push them up, and your chest down). At
    the same time, ensure yoru second kick is coinciding with the hand fnishing
    the pull.

    As the hand recovers in single arm, do not do it like freestyle (high elbow,
    leading the hand)...make it more like a backstroke recovery, and watch the
    hand over the top and into the water, which will help you witht he 'popping
    hips' on entry.

    If you have access to fins, you can and should practice this drill
    seperately if its too hard for you to do on the front of an IM.
     
  10. jtaylor

    jtaylor Guest

    "diablo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > Martin has decided to start using your name as a unit of swimming speed.
    > > It
    > > is unlikely this is meant as anything other than derision; and is is
    > > regrettable that others on the newsgroup are starting to join him.
    > >
    > > Bullies pick on the weak.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > by that rationale are they also the only ones with a sense of humour?
    >
    >


    If you think that bullying is funny.
     
  11. diablo

    diablo Guest

    "jtaylor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...
    >
    > "diablo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> >
    >> > Martin has decided to start using your name as a unit of swimming
    >> > speed.
    >> > It
    >> > is unlikely this is meant as anything other than derision; and is is
    >> > regrettable that others on the newsgroup are starting to join him.
    >> >
    >> > Bullies pick on the weak.
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> by that rationale are they also the only ones with a sense of humour?
    >>
    >>

    >
    > If you think that bullying is funny.


    If all derision is bullying, then yeah, sometimes its funny. Hell, if
    there's no lunch money to be had, there *has* to something to get out of it.

    Check the classefieds in your local rag...someone might have found your
    sense of humour.
     
  12. Martin Smith

    Martin Smith Guest

    Micheal Artindale wrote:

    > "Mark P" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Micheal Artindale wrote:
    >>
    >>>2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >>>
    >>>It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >>>
    >>>I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m.

    >
    > That
    >
    >>>likely is my problem.
    >>>
    >>>I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    >>>
    >>>Micheal.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>Hey that's 1.6 Art.

    >
    >
    > What do you mean?


    1.6 times your standard speed.
     
  13. "diablo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    > >
    > > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    > >
    > > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m.
    > > That
    > > likely is my problem.
    > >
    > > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    > >
    > > Micheal.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Why not try drilling your fly, rather than trying to swim full stroke?

    That
    > will allow you work on your other strokes without being too knackered and
    > can help you work on your timing.


    I actually do, that's how i got it this good...

    The drill(s) I do are:
    25m arms with proper breathing
    25m dolphin kick, breathing every 4th kick
    25m one arm, and 25m the other arm.

    I do not do this all, typically it would be
    the first 2 and then 50m of the stroke, or the last one then 50m the stroke.

    As sad as it may sound, that is how i got it somewhat like what it is
    supposed to be.

    I have seen a few swimmers localy do it, so, I do know how it is supposed to
    look like. I may ask them for assistance.

    >
    > the usual drill for fly is 3-3-3:
    >
    > -push off in a streamlined position
    > -pulling with only your right arm, keep your left arm extended out in

    front.
    > -now switch to pulling only with your left arm, right arm extended out in
    > front.
    > -final '3' is both arms pulling at the same time...repeat...3 right, 3

    left,
    > 3 together.


    Is this in 25m? or 3x25m?

    >
    > Some tips for timing:
    >
    > only breathe when pulling with a single arm, when you do your stroke
    > together, keep your head in...this will keep the hips high at all times,

    and
    > allow you to breathe 60% of the drill cycle.
    >
    > The leg kick is dolphin legs at all times and is the same whether you're
    > drilling single arm or double.
    >
    > Ensure you are 'kicking your hands in, and kicking them out'. As the hand
    > enters the water, 'pop your hips' (push them up, and your chest down). At
    > the same time, ensure yoru second kick is coinciding with the hand

    fnishing
    > the pull.
    >
    > As the hand recovers in single arm, do not do it like freestyle (high

    elbow,
    > leading the hand)...make it more like a backstroke recovery, and watch the
    > hand over the top and into the water, which will help you witht he

    'popping
    > hips' on entry.
    >
    > If you have access to fins, you can and should practice this drill
    > seperately if its too hard for you to do on the front of an IM.


    If I do more than 50m, I have to stop. I am wiped out at that time.

    If you know anything about life saving/first aid you would have heard of a
    maximum heart rate. Basically, it is, i think, 220 - your age. So, for me,
    that would be 195. After 50m of fly i am close to that, and, that is not a
    good thing. I think once you go above that, it is concidered a heart attack.
    I do not want that. If you know nothing about first aid/life saving, you
    wont believe it.

    Micheal
     
  14. rtk

    rtk Guest

    If you're doing these, Micheal, there's
    only 3 weeks after this one before
    you're able to swim a straight mile.
    Remember, you go after that many breaths
    regardless of how you feel. That's the
    whole point.


    WEEK three:
    400 yards...rest for 12 breaths
    100 yards...rest for 8 breaths...repeat
    3 times
    50 yards...rest for 4 breaths...repeat 5
    times
    25 yards...rest for 4 breaths...repeat 5
    times
    total: 1250 yards

    rtk
    >
     
  15. diablo

    diablo Guest

    "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "diablo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> > 2:30mins. I know, it is not good. In fact, it is quite slow.
    >> >
    >> > It is my fly that is slowing me down.
    >> >
    >> > I am slow, but my strokes are not. I am doing about 28 strokes per 25m.
    >> > That
    >> > likely is my problem.
    >> >
    >> > I am the slow guy who keeps going for no apparent reason.
    >> >
    >> > Micheal.
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >> Why not try drilling your fly, rather than trying to swim full stroke?

    > That
    >> will allow you work on your other strokes without being too knackered and
    >> can help you work on your timing.

    >
    > I actually do, that's how i got it this good...
    >
    > The drill(s) I do are:
    > 25m arms with proper breathing
    > 25m dolphin kick, breathing every 4th kick
    > 25m one arm, and 25m the other arm.
    >
    > I do not do this all, typically it would be
    > the first 2 and then 50m of the stroke, or the last one then 50m the
    > stroke.
    >
    > As sad as it may sound, that is how i got it somewhat like what it is
    > supposed to be.
    >
    > I have seen a few swimmers localy do it, so, I do know how it is supposed
    > to
    > look like. I may ask them for assistance.
    >
    >>
    >> the usual drill for fly is 3-3-3:
    >>
    >> -push off in a streamlined position
    >> -pulling with only your right arm, keep your left arm extended out in

    > front.
    >> -now switch to pulling only with your left arm, right arm extended out in
    >> front.
    >> -final '3' is both arms pulling at the same time...repeat...3 right, 3

    > left,
    >> 3 together.

    >
    > Is this in 25m? or 3x25m?


    start the length with 3 to the right, then 3 to the left, then 3
    together...continue this pattern every 25...if it takes you 18 strokes to
    make a 25, you'll go through the pattern twice, for example.


    >
    >>
    >> Some tips for timing:
    >>
    >> only breathe when pulling with a single arm, when you do your stroke
    >> together, keep your head in...this will keep the hips high at all times,

    > and
    >> allow you to breathe 60% of the drill cycle.
    >>
    >> The leg kick is dolphin legs at all times and is the same whether you're
    >> drilling single arm or double.
    >>
    >> Ensure you are 'kicking your hands in, and kicking them out'. As the hand
    >> enters the water, 'pop your hips' (push them up, and your chest down). At
    >> the same time, ensure yoru second kick is coinciding with the hand

    > fnishing
    >> the pull.
    >>
    >> As the hand recovers in single arm, do not do it like freestyle (high

    > elbow,
    >> leading the hand)...make it more like a backstroke recovery, and watch
    >> the
    >> hand over the top and into the water, which will help you witht he

    > 'popping
    >> hips' on entry.
    >>
    >> If you have access to fins, you can and should practice this drill
    >> seperately if its too hard for you to do on the front of an IM.

    >
    > If I do more than 50m, I have to stop. I am wiped out at that time.
    >
    > If you know anything about life saving/first aid you would have heard of a
    > maximum heart rate.


    yes, i know a little about it ;)

    Basically, it is, i think, 220 - your age. So, for me,
    > that would be 195. After 50m of fly i am close to that, and, that is not a
    > good thing.


    drilling shouldn't elicit a heart rate this high.

    >I think once you go above that, it is concidered a heart attack.


    no, its not.
     
  16. Martin Smith

    Martin Smith Guest

    Micheal Artindale wrote:

    > If I do more than 50m, I have to stop. I am wiped out at that time.
    >
    > If you know anything about life saving/first aid you would have heard of a
    > maximum heart rate. Basically, it is, i think, 220 - your age. So, for me,
    > that would be 195. After 50m of fly i am close to that, and, that is not a
    > good thing. I think once you go above that, it is concidered a heart attack.
    > I do not want that. If you know nothing about first aid/life saving, you
    > wont believe it.


    I replied to this once, but the CIA rejected it. I'll try again.

    A heart rate of 195 is almost impossible to reach. First, the formula is
    80% of (22 - age). Your maximum heart rate is about 156. That doesn't
    mean it isn't posdsible to get it up higher than that, I guess, but your
    heart rate shouldn't be anywhere near 195, especially after a 50 meter swim.

    Then what i said is correct. Your problem is lack of fitness. You
    described the fly work you actually are doing: 1 x 25 pull, 1 x 25 kick,
    and 1 50 swim. That's it?

    The suggestion was drills. Do something like this: 2 x 25 swim and 1 x
    25 kick with a board. Rest 15 seconds between 25s. Repeat the whole
    thing 10 times. Or at least 5 times. Repeat it several times. That's why
    they call them drills.

    You are supposed to get tired. You won't improve your fitness doing two
    25s and one 50 once.

    Get your actual pulse for 10 seconds after the 50 fly. I don't believe
    you are anywhere near 195. If you are, go to the doctor and find out
    what is wrong. You are 25 years old.
     
  17. jtaylor

    jtaylor Guest

    "Martin Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > I replied to this once, but the CIA rejected it. I'll try again.
    >
    > A heart rate of 195 is almost impossible to reach.


    This is completely false

    > First, the formula is 80% of (22 - age).


    (We should assume Martin meant "220 - age", not "22 - age", as that would,
    in this case, give a negative value for MHR.)

    Formulas such as these are useful only as an indication. One opf the
    original studies used an N of 10, and the varience of the samples was high.
    Many factors were not controlled, and the authors temselves stated "The
    formula was never supposed to be a guide to rule people's training."

    Many other formulas, such as the following:

    206 - (.711 x A),
    217 - (.85 x A),
    205 - (A/2)
    214 - (.8 x A)

    have also been suggested. These will not all give the same vaules for the
    same age. Nor do they take into account the level of fitness, length of
    time spent training, type of exercise, and so on.


    > Your maximum heart rate is about 156.


    Utterly wrong.

    Many 25-year olds would be astonished to find that by your figure, they are
    exceeding their maximum heart rate half-way through warmup. Even ignoring
    the imprecision of the formulaic methods for determining max HR, it is one
    of 195 or 188 or 196 or 192.5 or 194.

    Where did you get such a (bad) formula?
     
  18. Martin Smith

    Martin Smith Guest

    Martin Smith wrote:

    > Micheal Artindale wrote:
    >
    >> If I do more than 50m, I have to stop. I am wiped out at that time.
    >>
    >> If you know anything about life saving/first aid you would have heard
    >> of a
    >> maximum heart rate. Basically, it is, i think, 220 - your age. So, for
    >> me, that would be 195. After 50m of fly i am close to that, and, that is
    >> not a good thing. I think once you go above that, it is concidered a heart
    >> attack. I do not want that. If you know nothing about first aid/life saving,
    >> you wont believe it.

    >
    >
    > I replied to this once, but the CIA rejected it. I'll try again.
    >
    > A heart rate of 195 is almost impossible to reach. First, the formula is
    > 80% of (22 - age). Your maximum heart rate is about 156. That doesn't


    Sorry, that should be 80% of (220 - age)

    > mean it isn't possible to get it up higher than that, I guess, but your
    > heart rate shouldn't be anywhere near 195, especially after a 50 meter
    > swim.
    >
    > Then what i said is correct. Your problem is lack of fitness. You
    > described the fly work you actually are doing: 1 x 25 pull, 1 x 25 kick,
    > and 1 50 swim. That's it?
    >
    > The suggestion was drills. Do something like this: 2 x 25 swim and 1 x
    > 25 kick with a board. Rest 15 seconds between 25s. Repeat the whole
    > thing 10 times. Or at least 5 times. Repeat it several times. That's why
    > they call them drills.
    >
    > You are supposed to get tired. You won't improve your fitness doing two
    > 25s and one 50 once.
    >
    > Get your actual pulse for 10 seconds after the 50 fly. I don't believe
    > you are anywhere near 195. If you are, go to the doctor and find out
    > what is wrong. You are 25 years old.
     
  19. Lev Borisov

    Lev Borisov Guest


    >> Get your actual pulse for 10 seconds after the 50 fly. I don't believe you
    >> are anywhere near 195. If you are, go to the doctor and find out what is
    >> wrong. You are 25 years old.


    This is nonsense. A lot of people (me included) can get their heart rate
    to 195 for a little bit, even though it is not a happy feeling, nor is
    it sustainable (and probably is not very healthy either).

    I think that in Micheal's case the fact that he is getting to 195 simply
    means that he is compensating for poor technique by a superhuman effort,
    which is sustainable only over short distances. Presumably, with more
    drills the technique will improve.

    By the way, 2:30 for 100m IM is not too bad, it would be faster than the
    cruising rate of at least half the people in the pool I swim in.

    Lev
     
  20. Martin Smith

    Martin Smith Guest

    Lev Borisov wrote:

    >
    >>> Get your actual pulse for 10 seconds after the 50 fly. I don't
    >>> believe you are anywhere near 195. If you are, go to the doctor and
    >>> find out what is wrong. You are 25 years old.

    >
    >
    > This is nonsense. A lot of people (me included) can get their heart rate
    > to 195 for a little bit, even though it is not a happy feeling, nor is
    > it sustainable (and probably is not very healthy either).


    He swims ten hours a week, Lev. I don't think a 25 year old guy who
    swims 10 hours a week can get his heart rate to 195 swimming a 50 drill
    during a workout, unless (a) he has a medical problem, or (b) he not
    only has not been swimming ten hours a week, but he hasn't done any
    exercise at all for most of his life.

    He says he loves swimming. He says he would never give it up. I
    understand that. I feel the same way. But swimming is painful for him,
    and he doesn't get fit from all his swimming. It stays painful. You
    don't love an exercise that is painful. You either pass a threshold of
    fitness where it is no longer painful to swim 50 repeats, or you give up
    the sport. Nobody loves a sport for long if the daily training remains
    painful. You don't love it *until* it is no longer painful.

    > I think that in Micheal's case the fact that he is getting to 195 simply
    > means that he is compensating for poor technique by a superhuman effort,
    > which is sustainable only over short distances. Presumably, with more
    > drills the technique will improve.


    Pushing learning butterfly technique misses the point here. You can't do
    butterfly properly if you aren't fit. It isn't like doing crawl at 1.5k
    per hour. You have to have a higher level of strength and cardiovascular
    fitness to swim butterfly at all.

    I wonder why that is. Butterfly is basically just crawl with both sides
    doing the same thing at the same time instead of 180 dgrees out of
    phase. A few butterfliers have done long swims, but not many. I suppose
    the reason it is harder is you have to rise higher to breath. But I digress.

    > By the way, 2:30 for 100m IM is not too bad, it would be faster than the
    > cruising rate of at least half the people in the pool I swim in.


    And I suppose they are all far north of 25.

    Nobody said 2:30 was a problem. What is a problem is a pulse rate of 195
    after a 50 fly drill. Not a race. Just a 50 fly as part of a drill.

    Even when I was 18, working as hard as I could, I couldn't get my pulse
    rate near 195. Theoretically I should have been able to get it that
    high, but I never could. It didn't matter how hard I tried. But I did
    have a resting heart rate of 31 in those days. Those days are gone, of
    course, but it's still about 45.
     
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