10sp shimano cassette on 9sp alloy (Bontrager) hub

[[email protected]]

Hello,

I've got a Trek Madone 5.2 "project one" with Ultegra 10sp (2005), and
it shipped with some unusual wheels - the stickers on the wheels say
Race-lite but they're 16 spoke, so I think they may be race-lite aeros
or some other mutant. Anyway, nice wheels, fast, light and plenty
stiff, I've put 7,000km on them and they're solid and true and roll as
nicely as anything I've ever ridden on ...

But!

The freehub body is alloy, and it's 9sp, not 10sp - when I pulled the
12-25 off to whack on a 12-27 for some big hills around here we (I work
p/t at my LBS) found that there was the 1mm spacer used for fitting
10sp cassettes on 9sp hubs. The cassette was very difficult to remove
as it had dug into the hub and we had to make up a tool to unwind it
out of the hub. Not good! There's 1mm or so deep gouges in the hub
where the sprockets have dug into it.

Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel. Presumably the 10sp
hub has a better fit to the cassette so it doesn't have such high
pressure points?

I'd expect that the same should apply to the Bontrager hub? Ie: Trek
should not have supplied that hub with that cassette? We're getting in
touch with Trek Australia to confirm that this is a mistake, but can
anyone here confirm that Trek should not have shipped that hub with
this bike? I'm 90% sure it's a mistake on their (Trek) part, but would
appreciate any confirmation from anyone here with a bit more experience
with this kind of thing.

 

[Gemma_k]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Hello,
>
> I've got a Trek Madone 5.2 "project one" with Ultegra 10sp (2005), and
> it shipped with some unusual wheels - the stickers on the wheels say
> Race-lite but they're 16 spoke, so I think they may be race-lite aeros
> or some other mutant. Anyway, nice wheels, fast, light and plenty
> stiff, I've put 7,000km on them and they're solid and true and roll as
> nicely as anything I've ever ridden on ...
>
> But!
>
> The freehub body is alloy, and it's 9sp, not 10sp - when I pulled the
> 12-25 off to whack on a 12-27 for some big hills around here we (I work
> p/t at my LBS) found that there was the 1mm spacer used for fitting
> 10sp cassettes on 9sp hubs. The cassette was very difficult to remove
> as it had dug into the hub and we had to make up a tool to unwind it
> out of the hub. Not good! There's 1mm or so deep gouges in the hub
> where the sprockets have dug into it.
>
> Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
> not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
> body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
> the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel. Presumably the 10sp
> hub has a better fit to the cassette so it doesn't have such high
> pressure points?
>
> I'd expect that the same should apply to the Bontrager hub? Ie: Trek
> should not have supplied that hub with that cassette? We're getting in
> touch with Trek Australia to confirm that this is a mistake, but can
> anyone here confirm that Trek should not have shipped that hub with
> this bike? I'm 90% sure it's a mistake on their (Trek) part, but would
> appreciate any confirmation from anyone here with a bit more experience
> with this kind of thing.

I don't think you'll get far IMHO. Lots of 'boutique' wheels for years have
come with aluminium casette splines to be able to produce fancy lightweight
hoops. (My Zipps included). Both 9 and 10sp casettes gouge into them with
heavy use, especially casettes with individual cogs (ie ultegra and
dura-ace). Shimano, in their attempt to keep up the weight battle, made
their first Al freehub with the 10spd hubs, and in an effort to reduce the
gouging made the splines taller... so a 8spd or 9 spd hub will take a 8, 9,
or 10spd cassette, but a 10 spd casette (with its high splines) will not
accept a 8 or 9 spd casette.
So why would a boutique wheelbuilder (ie bontrager) make a 10spd wheel, when
a 9spd one will suit anyone......
I woudn't worry about the gouges, they seem to reach a point and never get
any worse - does make it tricky to get cassettes off though.

just my $0.02 worth.

Gemma

 

[[email protected]]

sorry about the dupe ... google groups was playing up and I didn't know
that this had actually made it. Please don't bother replying to this
thread!

 

[TimC]

On 2006-01-09, [email protected] (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> sorry about the dupe ... google groups was playing up and I didn't know
> that this had actually made it. Please don't bother replying to this
> thread!

I don't think you other thread did make it through...

--
TimC
It's funny, isn't it? All this antiterrorist legislation makes ordinary
law-abiding citizens want to blow up politicians. -- Mark South on ARK

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

[email protected] wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've got a Trek Madone 5.2 "project one" with Ultegra 10sp (2005), and
> it shipped with some unusual wheels - the stickers on the wheels say
> Race-lite but they're 16 spoke, so I think they may be race-lite aeros
> or some other mutant. Anyway, nice wheels, fast, light and plenty
> stiff, I've put 7,000km on them and they're solid and true and roll as
> nicely as anything I've ever ridden on ...
>
> But!
>
> The freehub body is alloy, and it's 9sp, not 10sp - when I pulled the
> 12-25 off to whack on a 12-27 for some big hills around here we (I work
> p/t at my LBS) found that there was the 1mm spacer used for fitting
> 10sp cassettes on 9sp hubs. The cassette was very difficult to remove
> as it had dug into the hub and we had to make up a tool to unwind it
> out of the hub. Not good! There's 1mm or so deep gouges in the hub
> where the sprockets have dug into it.
>
> Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
> not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
> body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
> the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel. Presumably the 10sp
> hub has a better fit to the cassette so it doesn't have such high
> pressure points?
>
Not the case at all. a DA '9s' or 7700 freehub body is titanium, no
problem puttting a 10s cogset onto that, just gotta have the thin 1mm
spacer on first.

NOT Possible to put a DA 9s cogset onto a DA 10s rear hub(thanks
shimano), it is aluminum but that's not the issue. They made the
splines deeper so that a 9s won't fit.

> I'd expect that the same should apply to the Bontrager hub? Ie: Trek
> should not have supplied that hub with that cassette? We're getting in
> touch with Trek Australia to confirm that this is a mistake, but can
> anyone here confirm that Trek should not have shipped that hub with
> this bike? I'm 90% sure it's a mistake on their (Trek) part, but would
> appreciate any confirmation from anyone here with a bit more experience
> with this kind of thing.

Bottom line is that the 10s cogset will fit onto any shimano
compatible 8/9/10s freehub, just gotta use the 1mm spacer is all.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

carl.I.brewer wrote:
>
> Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
> not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
> body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
> the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel.

I don't believe I ever said that. So-called "9-speed" Dura-Ace hubs
have steel Freehub bodies, only off-brand "9-speed" hubs have
alumin(i)um ("alloy") bodies.

If you really did find this error on one of my 2,000+ pages, please
email me with the URL so I can correct it.

The _10-speed_ Dura-Ace hub does have a titanium body, which has extra
tall splines to make it stronger (and also to preclude you from
installing steel sprockets that could damage it.)

http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace

Sheldon "9? Nein!" Brown
+------------------------------------------+
| Athletic scholarships are a corrupting |
| cancer on the U.S. educational system. |
+------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Bleve]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> carl.I.brewer wrote:
> >
> > Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
> > not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
> > body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
> > the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel.
>
> I don't believe I ever said that. So-called "9-speed" Dura-Ace hubs
> have steel Freehub bodies, only off-brand "9-speed" hubs have
> alumin(i)um ("alloy") bodies.

This is what is on your site
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html):

The Dura-Ace 7800 rear hub has an aluminum Freehub body to save weight.
Other manufacturers have used aluminum Freehub bodies, and it has been
a problem because the steel sprockets can cut notches into the splines
of such a soft material.

To avoid this problem, Shimano has made the first change in their
spline pattern since the introduction of Hyperglide in the late '80s.
Dura-Ace 10 freehubs have taller splines than other Shimano models. As
a result, it is not possible to install cassettes other than 10-speed
models on Dura-Ace 7800 hubs. It is not, however necessary to use
Dura-Ace 10 speed cassettes. The Ultegra 10 speed cassettes also
accommodate the taller splines of the 7800 hubs.



Did the 9sp D-A hubs have Al alloy freehubs and they learnt from the
mistake for 10sp? It's academic anyway, but my apologies for
mis-interpreting your article.


> If you really did find this error on one of my 2,000+ pages, please
> email me with the URL so I can correct it.
>
> The _10-speed_ Dura-Ace hub does have a titanium body, which has extra
> tall splines to make it stronger (and also to preclude you from
> installing steel sprockets that could damage it.)

Titanium or Al Alloy? They're both soft

 

[Sheldon Brown]

carl.I.brewer wrote:
>>
>>>Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
>>>not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
>>>body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
>>>the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel.

I replied:

>>I don't believe I ever said that. So-called "9-speed" Dura-Ace hubs
>>have steel Freehub bodies,

Actually that was not correct. The _Dura-Ace_ 9-speed had a titanium
Freehub body.

>> only off-brand "9-speed" hubs have alumin(i)um ("alloy") bodies.
>
Bleve wrote:
>
> This is what is on your site
> (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html):
>
> The Dura-Ace 7800 rear hub has an aluminum Freehub body to save weight.
> Other manufacturers have used aluminum Freehub bodies, and it has been
> a problem because the steel sprockets can cut notches into the splines
> of such a soft material.

Right. The 7800 is the "10-speed" model.

> To avoid this problem, Shimano has made the first change in their
> spline pattern since the introduction of Hyperglide in the late '80s.
> Dura-Ace 10 freehubs have taller splines than other Shimano models. As
> a result, it is not possible to install cassettes other than 10-speed
> models on Dura-Ace 7800 hubs. It is not, however necessary to use
> Dura-Ace 10 speed cassettes. The Ultegra 10 speed cassettes also
> accommodate the taller splines of the 7800 hubs.
>
>
> Did the 9sp D-A hubs have Al alloy freehubs and they learnt from the
> mistake for 10sp? It's academic anyway, but my apologies for
> mis-interpreting your article.

No, Shimano never did an aluminum Freehub body before, but a number of
off brand "boutique" hubs did try this. I remember having this problem
with some horrible, very overpriced Ringlé hubs a while back.
>
>>If you really did find this error on one of my 2,000+ pages, please
>>email me with the URL so I can correct it.
>>
>>The _10-speed_ Dura-Ace hub does have a titanium body, which has extra
>>tall splines to make it stronger (and also to preclude you from
>>installing steel sprockets that could damage it.)
>
> Titanium or Al Alloy? They're both soft
>
"9-speed" (7700) is titanium; "10-speed" (7800) is alumin(i)um.

Titanium is MUCH harder than alumin(i)um.


Sheldon "Wouldn't Buy A Hub With An Al Freehub Body" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| You will hear people say, “Our country, right or wrong,” |
| but that is a false patriotism and bad Americanism. |
| When our country is wrong she is worse than other countries |
| when they are wrong, for she has more light than other |
| countries, and we somehow ought to make her feel that we |
| are sorry and ashamed for her. --William Dean Howells, 1912 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[[email protected]]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> carl.I.brewer wrote:
> >>
> >>>Looking through Sheldon's pages, I note that he says that one should
> >>>not fit a 10sp cassette on a 9sp dura-ace hub as it's alloy (the hub
> >>>body) but that it's ok with Ultegra 9sp hubs. I assume this is because
> >>>the Ultegra hub body (proper name is?) is steel.
>
> I replied:
>
> >>I don't believe I ever said that. So-called "9-speed" Dura-Ace hubs
> >>have steel Freehub bodies,
>
> Actually that was not correct. The _Dura-Ace_ 9-speed had a titanium
> Freehub body.

No worries

> >> only off-brand "9-speed" hubs have alumin(i)um ("alloy") bodies.
> >
> Bleve wrote:
> >
> > This is what is on your site
> > (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html):
> >
> > The Dura-Ace 7800 rear hub has an aluminum Freehub body to save weight.
> > Other manufacturers have used aluminum Freehub bodies, and it has been
> > a problem because the steel sprockets can cut notches into the splines
> > of such a soft material.
>
> Right. The 7800 is the "10-speed" model.


Yep. Noted.

> > To avoid this problem, Shimano has made the first change in their
> > spline pattern since the introduction of Hyperglide in the late '80s.
> > Dura-Ace 10 freehubs have taller splines than other Shimano models. As
> > a result, it is not possible to install cassettes other than 10-speed
> > models on Dura-Ace 7800 hubs. It is not, however necessary to use
> > Dura-Ace 10 speed cassettes. The Ultegra 10 speed cassettes also
> > accommodate the taller splines of the 7800 hubs.
> >
> >
> > Did the 9sp D-A hubs have Al alloy freehubs and they learnt from the
> > mistake for 10sp? It's academic anyway, but my apologies for
> > mis-interpreting your article.
>
> No, Shimano never did an aluminum Freehub body before, but a number of
> off brand "boutique" hubs did try this. I remember having this problem
> with some horrible, very overpriced Ringlé hubs a while back.

So it's fair to say then, that AL Alloy is not really suitable for
"standard" 9 speed applications, and is only suitable for 10sp if and
only if it's the new 10sp pattern? Would that be a pretty good
summary?

> >>If you really did find this error on one of my 2,000+ pages, please
> >>email me with the URL so I can correct it.
> >>
> >>The _10-speed_ Dura-Ace hub does have a titanium body, which has extra
> >>tall splines to make it stronger (and also to preclude you from
> >>installing steel sprockets that could damage it.)
> >
> > Titanium or Al Alloy? They're both soft
> >
> "9-speed" (7700) is titanium; "10-speed" (7800) is alumin(i)um.
>
> Titanium is MUCH harder than alumin(i)um.
>
>
> Sheldon "Wouldn't Buy A Hub With An Al Freehub Body" Brown

Neither would I, given hindsight Any reports on how the 10sp Al
D-A freehub is holding up? I was talking to a friend tonight who has
also just jumped from 9sp to 10sp, and he has an American Classic
wheelset, also Al Alloy freehub, and he reported the same problem -
very difficult to remove the 10sp cassette after significant digin.
His had done some 1,000km (not many). He's a big lad and is doing a
lot of sprint training, thus putting a lot of pressure on the 12,13,14
and 15 tooth sprockets (all single, not on carriers, so all
high-pressure) Perhaps current 10sp Shimano Ultegra cassettes are just
not suitable on 9sp pattern Al alloy hubs at all? If that's the case,
and now I have two examples of this, then I'd say it's fair to suggest
that Trek has shipped a part with my bike that is not suitable for it.
What's your opinion Sheldon?

Also, he (my friend) noticed that the 10sp sprockets don't line up with
all the splines on the 9sp freehub, but that his 9sp cassette sprockets
did.I'm not refering to the depth of the spline holes, which we know
are different to allow the cassette to fit on the deeper 10sp specific
dura-ace freehub. This would also add to the pressure on the remaining
splines. I don't have one of each 9sp and 10sp sprocket handy to
compare, but it's consistant with my memory of fitting my 12-27 Ultegra
cassette, but, that's from memory, it was late and we were in a hurry
after a 5 min job (swapping cassettes) had already taken an hour, so my
memory may be misleading.

 

[adam85]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>Neither would I, given hindsight Any reports on how the 10sp Al
>D-A freehub is holding up? I was talking to a friend tonight who has
>also just jumped from 9sp to 10sp, and he has an American Classic
>wheelset, also Al Alloy freehub, and he reported the same problem -
>very difficult to remove the 10sp cassette after significant digin.
>His had done some 1,000km (not many). He's a big lad and is doing a
>lot of sprint training, thus putting a lot of pressure on the 12,13,14
>and 15 tooth sprockets (all single, not on carriers, so all
>high-pressure) Perhaps current 10sp Shimano Ultegra cassettes are just
>not suitable on 9sp pattern Al alloy hubs at all? If that's the case,
>and now I have two examples of this, then I'd say it's fair to suggest
>that Trek has shipped a part with my bike that is not suitable for it.
>What's your opinion Sheldon?
>
>Also, he (my friend) noticed that the 10sp sprockets don't line up with
>all the splines on the 9sp freehub, but that his 9sp cassette sprockets
>did.I'm not refering to the depth of the spline holes, which we know
>are different to allow the cassette to fit on the deeper 10sp specific
>dura-ace freehub. This would also add to the pressure on the remaining
>splines. I don't have one of each 9sp and 10sp sprocket handy to
>compare, but it's consistant with my memory of fitting my 12-27 Ultegra
>cassette, but, that's from memory, it was late and we were in a hurry
>after a 5 min job (swapping cassettes) had already taken an hour, so my
>memory may be misleading.

Carl,
I've noted the same wear on an american classic freehub using an ultegra
9spd cassette after about 8 thousand km. I swapped cassettes a few
times so I just lightly filed the burrs on the splines each time to ease
fitment
and it's never been a big problem. It must just be those big guns of yours
giving it hell

I then went to 10 speed but Campag, not Shimano so I can't check the
spline alignment for you with a 10sp shimano cassette sorry.

I was curious about the wear so I pulled the cassette and the campag freehub
has next to no wear after a similar amount of kilometres but it has a
coarser
spline with only 4 large "slots". I can post a photo if you like.

So I guess I'm saying that 9sp ultegra cassette on a 9sp aluminium freehub
was
ok, but not great.

Adam
(not starting a campag/shimano war)

 

[[email protected]]

adam85 wrote:

> Carl,
> I've noted the same wear on an american classic freehub using an ultegra
> 9spd cassette after about 8 thousand km. I swapped cassettes a few
> times so I just lightly filed the burrs on the splines each time to ease
> fitment
> and it's never been a big problem. It must just be those big guns of yours
> giving it hell

Heh! Wayne (friend with the American Classic) didn't have major issues
with 9sp cassettes, it was the 10sp, same as my problem - but my hub's
a Bontrager - but the freehub is maybe from the same manufacturer? How
many "Swiss made" hubs come from the same Swiss hub factory?

> I then went to 10 speed but Campag, not Shimano so I can't check the
> spline alignment for you with a 10sp shimano cassette sorry.
>
> I was curious about the wear so I pulled the cassette and the campag freehub
> has next to no wear after a similar amount of kilometres but it has a
> coarser
> spline with only 4 large "slots". I can post a photo if you like.

Interesting, but not useful in this case. I'm more concerned about the
suitability of supplying a component which in two cases that I'm now
aware of, is under-engineered. As you point out, your 9sp cassette on
9sp alloy freehub was ok but not right (having to file the hub is a
failure!), which is consistant with Wayne's experience also, but my
(and now his also) experience with 10sp on the same freehub is that
it's far worse. In both cases we had to resort to methods most ...
agricultural .. to extract the cassette. It simply should not be this
bad.

> So I guess I'm saying that 9sp ultegra cassette on a 9sp aluminium freehub
> was
> ok, but not great.

Noted, thankyou for the data point

I'm working in at the shop tomorrow, will see if I can have a look at a
9sp and 10sp cassette to compare the spline spacings.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

I wrote:

>>No, Shimano never did an aluminum Freehub body before, but a number of
>>off brand "boutique" hubs did try this. I remember having this problem
>>with some horrible, very overpriced Ringlé hubs a while back.
>
carl.I.brewer asked:

> So it's fair to say then, that AL Alloy is not really suitable for
> "standard" 9 speed applications, and is only suitable for 10sp if and
> only if it's the new 10sp pattern? Would that be a pretty good
> summary?
>
No, that's a bit of an oversimplification. Al freehub bodies are OK as
long as there are no high-torque flat steel sprockets involved. If
you're stuck with a hub with an Al body, select cassettes with "spider"
modules for the larger sprockets.

An anonymous poster wrote:

> So I guess I'm saying that 9sp ultegra cassette on a 9sp aluminium
> freehub was ok, but not great.

If you have an Al body, Ultegra or Dura-Ace or XTR cassettes are the
_best_ choice, because the larger (highest torque) sprockets are on
spider modules, so they don't have sharp edges to dig into the soft Al
splines.

Sheldon "Arachnophilia" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| It is amazing how much "mature wisdom" resembles being too tired. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Sheldon Brown]

carl.I.brewer worried:

> Perhaps current 10sp Shimano Ultegra cassettes are just
> not suitable on 9sp pattern Al alloy hubs at all? If that's the case,
> and now I have two examples of this, then I'd say it's fair to suggest
> that Trek has shipped a part with my bike that is not suitable for it.
> What's your opinion Sheldon?

I wouldn't expect there to be a serious problem with _Ultegra_ cassettes
on such a hub, since they use spiders for the larger sprockets, but
would expect a problem if you substituted one of the cheaper cassettes,
such as 105 or LX, on the alumin(i)um body.

Sheldon "It Should Be Ok" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| No state has an inherent right to survive through |
| conscript troops and, in the long run, no state ever has. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[dave]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> I wrote:
snip
> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>
Wow you are real
It like meeting Santa clause
I,d like some pedals that are platform on one side and spd on the other
please, I have been a good boy (for some values of 'good')

Dave

 

[Johnny Sunset]

dave ? wrote:
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > I wrote:
> snip
> > http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
> >
> Wow you are real
> It like meeting Santa clause
> I,d like some pedals that are platform on one side and spd on the other
> please, I have been a good boy (for some values of 'good')

Sheldon Brown will sell you some pedals like this for $75.95:
<http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=PD6432>.

--
Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley Pedant

 

[Marty]

dave wrote:
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
>
>> I wrote:
>
> snip
>
>> http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
>>
> Wow you are real
> It like meeting Santa clause
> I,d like some pedals that are platform on one side and spd on the other
> please, I have been a good boy (for some values of 'good')
>
> Dave

The difference between Santa and Sheldon is that Santa is real.

Marty

 

[Dane Buson]

Marty <[email protected]> wrote:
>> dave wrote:
>>
>> Wow you are real
>> It like meeting Santa clause
>> I,d like some pedals that are platform on one side and spd on the other
>> please, I have been a good boy (for some values of 'good')
>>
>> Dave
>
> The difference between Santa and Sheldon is that Santa is real.

Are you sure they're not the same person? I mean, have you ever
seen Santa posting at the same time as Sheldon?

--
Dane Buson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"The lift is being fixed for the next day. During
that time we regret that you will be unbearable."
-In a Bucharest Hotel Lobby

 

[Resound]

"Dane Buson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Marty <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> dave wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow you are real
>>> It like meeting Santa clause
>>> I,d like some pedals that are platform on one side and spd on the other
>>> please, I have been a good boy (for some values of 'good')
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> The difference between Santa and Sheldon is that Santa is real.
>
> Are you sure they're not the same person? I mean, have you ever
> seen Santa posting at the same time as Sheldon?
>
> --
And he posts here sometimes! Please Santa...I've been good...

 

[Bleve]

Sheldon Brown wrote:
> carl.I.brewer worried:
>
> > Perhaps current 10sp Shimano Ultegra cassettes are just
> > not suitable on 9sp pattern Al alloy hubs at all? If that's the case,
> > and now I have two examples of this, then I'd say it's fair to suggest
> > that Trek has shipped a part with my bike that is not suitable for it.
> > What's your opinion Sheldon?
>
> I wouldn't expect there to be a serious problem with _Ultegra_ cassettes
> on such a hub, since they use spiders for the larger sprockets, but
> would expect a problem if you substituted one of the cheaper cassettes,
> such as 105 or LX, on the alumin(i)um body.

Ok, in 2 weeks I'll be pulling the 12:27 off and putting a 12:25 back
on, I'll take photos this time, and may even get the local Trek rep in
to observe the process.

> Sheldon "It Should Be Ok" Brown

The Titanic should not sink

 

[[email protected]]

> > Marty <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please Santa...I've been good...

I DON'T THINK SO

http://littlink.com/aj9b4

http://groups.google.com/group/aus....080962?q=bruce++marty&rnum=1#19881572c4080962

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....+++"sex+sounds"&rnum=5&hl=en#99928fdb86a725c9