11/24/03 OPEN LETTER TO ROBERT STEIN: SEAT DAMAGE UNRESOLVED SINCE 8/18/03

[talleytrans]

Robert,

I am including jpegs of the seat failure, & paint defect. Jpeg #11 shows only the most serious paint
problem. There are more that are tiny in comparison. Jpegs #9 & 10 show the collapse of the left
side bolt-hole area.

I'd appreciate the fastest possible response to this, since even with oversized washers & patching I
shortly won't be able to ride.

Dear Michael,

This never happened before (seat failure) and I'm waiting for the composite expert (subcontractor)
to come back from vacation to get a satisfactory explanation what is wrong with the seat you
received. The carbon seat is supposed to be lighter and stronger at the same time. My best guess is
that they tried to cheat out a layer of carbon hoping that nothing will go wrong. Please find a way
to make a snapshot of the damage and I'll do my best to provide you with a replacement seat.

The idea sounds reasonably, however, the carbon seat never should have failed. The only possible
damage one would expect is if the seat is smashed by a heavy stroke of a car or such vehicle, but
otherwise it should remain intact.

About the paint: Looks I really a have a serious problem with the subcontractor. He claims he did
everything as usual and agreed. I have no reason not to believe you and now I'm not sure how to
compensate you for the problem. As you might have seen, I already removed the Schwalbe City Marathon
tires from the offer list on my site, even though I received no other complaint. I fear I'll have to
remove the carbon seat and custom paint as well from the offer or look for new subcontractors. Lack
of images to document the damages makes it harder for me because it's my word against theirs, I
claim there is some damage that never should have occurred, they say it's not true, and that I'm
only trying to get something out of them...

PS. Sorry for my delayed response, family problems.

Sincerely, Robert Stein mailto:[email protected] web: http://www.steintrikes.com

11/24/03 After repeated requests, Mr. Stein claims to be broke, & seeking a buyer. I have repeatedly
requested Mr. Stein to do his utmost to have his INDEPENDENT SUBCONTRACTING SEAT MFG. REPLACE
A CLEARLY DEFECTIVE SEAT.

This has been met with absolutely no response, and (I trust) is unacceptable to all of us who
appreciate honorable work & responsible customer service.

Michael Talley Talley Trans, Inc.

 

[Risto Varanka]

[email protected] wrote:
: Robert,

: I am including jpegs of the seat failure, & paint defect. Jpeg #11 shows only the most serious
: paint problem. There are more that are tiny in comparison.

The paint is not perfect on Steintrikes, small patches can come off easily etc. This is known to
most Stein users I think...

: Jpegs #9 & 10 show the collapse of the left side bolt-hole area.

Can you send those jpegs to incoming at ihpva.org?

: 11/24/03 After repeated requests, Mr. Stein claims to be broke, & seeking a buyer.

Hmm, bad news. Hopefully the business will continue in some form - the Stein concept is valuable for
the tadpole world.

If one could buy plans then one could improve on them and build them in the Western World (or Taiwan
or some nice part of Eastern Europe). Could increase the price but also solve some quality issues.

: I have repeatedly requested Mr. Stein to do his utmost to have his INDEPENDENT SUBCONTRACTING SEAT
: MFG. REPLACE A CLEARLY DEFECTIVE SEAT.

Can you communicate with the subcontractor directly?

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Hellbent Rick]

First, I empathize your situation with your seat and paint. However, I also have a lot of respect
for Robert Stein, as he has persevered through more hardships than we can ever imagine. As for your
open letter, it seals Robert's fate. Therefore, I can only hope that you have been fair in posting
your claims. BTW- I tried his website at www.steintrikes.com and it appears to be down. Too bad, as
Robert had pioneered the value priced tadpole in Europe. He will be missed. :-(((

Regretfully,

Rick Horwitz

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Robert,
>
> I am including jpegs of the seat failure, & paint defect. Jpeg #11 shows only the most serious
> paint problem. There are more that are tiny in comparison. Jpegs #9 & 10 show the collapse of the
> left side bolt-hole area.
>
> I'd appreciate the fastest possible response to this, since even with oversized washers & patching
> I shortly won't be able to ride.
>
>
> Dear Michael,
>
> This never happened before (seat failure) and I'm waiting for the composite expert (subcontractor)
> to come back from vacation to get a satisfactory explanation what is wrong with the seat you
> received. The carbon seat is supposed to be lighter and stronger at the same time. My best guess
> is that they tried to cheat out a layer of carbon hoping that nothing will go wrong. Please find a
> way to make a snapshot of the damage and I'll do my best to provide you with a replacement seat.
>
> The idea sounds reasonably, however, the carbon seat never should have failed. The only possible
> damage one would expect is if the seat is smashed by a heavy stroke of a car or such vehicle, but
> otherwise it should remain intact.
>
> About the paint: Looks I really a have a serious problem with the subcontractor. He claims he did
> everything as usual and agreed. I have no reason not to believe you and now I'm not sure how to
> compensate you for the problem. As you might have seen, I already removed the Schwalbe City
> Marathon tires from the offer list on my site, even though I received no other complaint. I fear
> I'll have to remove the carbon seat and custom paint as well from the offer or look for new
> subcontractors. Lack of images to document the damages makes it harder for me because it's my word
> against theirs, I claim there is some damage that never should have occurred, they say it's not
> true, and that I'm only trying to get something out of them...
>
> PS. Sorry for my delayed response, family problems.
>
> Sincerely, Robert Stein mailto:[email protected] web: http://www.steintrikes.com
>
> 11/24/03 After repeated requests, Mr. Stein claims to be broke, & seeking a buyer. I have
> repeatedly requested Mr. Stein to do his utmost to have his INDEPENDENT SUBCONTRACTING SEAT
> MFG. REPLACE A CLEARLY DEFECTIVE SEAT.
>
> This has been met with absolutely no response, and (I trust) is unacceptable to all of us who
> appreciate honorable work & responsible customer service.
>
> Michael Talley Talley Trans, Inc.

 

[talleytrans]

With the greatest wishes for Robert & his future, the RoadShark is the finest HPV I've ever owned in
speed, design, fun & comfort. In unapologetic fairness, it is also the shoddiest in finish: paint
that's peeling off within 2 weeks of purchase, bolts that you could practically bend bare-handed,
tires that seemed to literally shred within two weeks (appeared to be 'retread' Schwalbes if you
could even call them that), & the defective excuse for a fiberglass M5 knock-off seat.
Never-the-less I'm still glad I made the buy. I want his seat sub-contractor to stand up for his
work, show good conscience and integrity and replace his defective seat. Yours, MIchael Talley
Talley Trans, Inc.

 

[Risto Varanka]

[email protected] wrote:
: that's peeling off within 2 weeks of purchase, bolts that you could practically bend bare-handed,
: tires that seemed to literally shred within two weeks (appeared to be 'retread' Schwalbes if you
: could even

Maybe they have improved: I didn't notice anything wrong with the bolts and the tires are quite ok
too (Schwalbe Stelvios, obviously the same stuff you could get from any shop... and the price was
quite a bit cheaper than from ICE if I recall). Some people have complained about a steering
geometry that is a bit screwed up and about the seat mounting brackets being too weak, but I have
had no problems with either of these.

: call them that), & the defective excuse for a fiberglass M5 knock-off seat.

Defective how? IMO the seat could be much stiffer and stronger, but mine isn't defective, not
yet at least.

About the info on Steintrikes going bankrupt: we'd need to confirm that from a 2nd source, of
course. Somehow people seem to be a bit drawn to jump to rumours about bent makers going bankrupt
and cry wolf. Even bankrupcy doesn't mean the end of production, as somebody could step up and
continue the business. A small company like Steintrikes could be a good starting point for somebody
who has ambitions about making tadpoles.

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Evsolutions]

IF Robert Stein has truly faded to black tis a sad day for all bent riders with a 3rd wheel.

Joshua
*****

"Hellbent Rick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> First, I empathize your situation with your seat and paint. However, I also have a lot of respect
> for Robert Stein, as he has persevered through more hardships than we can ever imagine. As for
> your open letter, it seals Robert's fate. Therefore, I can only hope that you have been fair
in
> posting your claims. BTW- I tried his website at www.steintrikes.com and it appears to be down.
> Too bad, as Robert had pioneered the value priced tadpole in Europe. He will be missed. :-(((
>
> Regretfully,
>
> Rick Horwitz
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Robert,
> >
> > I am including jpegs of the seat failure, & paint defect. Jpeg #11 shows only the most serious
> > paint problem. There are more that are tiny in comparison. Jpegs #9 & 10 show the collapse of
> > the left side bolt-hole area.
> >
> > I'd appreciate the fastest possible response to this, since even with oversized washers &
> > patching I shortly won't be able to ride.
> >
> >
> > Dear Michael,
> >
> > This never happened before (seat failure) and I'm waiting for the composite expert
> > (subcontractor) to come back from vacation to get a satisfactory explanation what is wrong with
> > the seat you received. The carbon seat is supposed to be lighter and stronger at the same time.
> > My best guess is that they tried to cheat out a layer of carbon hoping that nothing will go
> > wrong. Please find a way to make a snapshot of the damage and I'll do my best to provide you
> > with a replacement seat.
> >
> > The idea sounds reasonably, however, the carbon seat never should have failed. The only possible
> > damage one would expect is if the seat is smashed by a heavy stroke of a car or such vehicle,
> > but otherwise it should remain intact.
> >
> > About the paint: Looks I really a have a serious problem with the subcontractor. He claims he
> > did everything as usual and agreed. I have no reason not to believe you and now I'm not sure how
> > to compensate you for the problem. As you might have seen, I already removed the Schwalbe City
> > Marathon tires from the offer list on my site, even though I received no other complaint. I fear
> > I'll have to remove the carbon seat and custom paint as well from the offer or look for new
> > subcontractors. Lack of images to document the damages makes it harder for me because it's my
> > word against theirs, I claim there is some damage that never should have occurred, they say it's
> > not true, and that I'm only trying to get something out of them...
> >
> > PS. Sorry for my delayed response, family problems.
> >
> > Sincerely, Robert Stein mailto:[email protected] web: http://www.steintrikes.com
> >
> > 11/24/03 After repeated requests, Mr. Stein claims to be broke, & seeking a buyer. I have
> > repeatedly requested Mr. Stein to do his utmost to have his INDEPENDENT SUBCONTRACTING
> > SEAT MFG. REPLACE A CLEARLY DEFECTIVE SEAT.
> >
> > This has been met with absolutely no response, and (I trust) is unacceptable to all of us who
> > appreciate honorable work & responsible customer service.
> >
> > Michael Talley Talley Trans, Inc.

 

[Risto Varanka]

EVSolutions <[email protected]> wrote:
: IF Robert Stein has truly faded to black tis a sad day for all bent riders with a 3rd wheel.

At least the website was up yesterday. If having the website down means bankrupty then Steintrikes
is not bankrupt ;-p

--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Hellbent Rick]

Risto,

Yes, I tried it today and it was up and running. I wish Robert all the best, and hope he can get
these small problems sorted out.

Rick Horwitz <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> EVSolutions <[email protected]> wrote:
> : IF Robert Stein has truly faded to black tis a sad day for all bent
riders
> : with a 3rd wheel.
>
> At least the website was up yesterday. If having the website down means bankrupty then Steintrikes
> is not bankrupt ;-p
>
> --
> Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html varis at no spam please iki fi

 

[Hellbent Rick]

Robert has posted a reply concerning the so-called demise of his company and denies all rumors as
such. End of story. I hope Mike gets everything straightened out with his seat problem.

Rick Horwitz

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Robert,
>
> I am including jpegs of the seat failure, & paint defect. Jpeg #11 shows only the most serious
> paint problem. There are more that are tiny in comparison. Jpegs #9 & 10 show the collapse of the
> left side bolt-hole area.
>
> I'd appreciate the fastest possible response to this, since even with oversized washers & patching
> I shortly won't be able to ride.
>
>
> Dear Michael,
>
> This never happened before (seat failure) and I'm waiting for the composite expert (subcontractor)
> to come back from vacation to get a satisfactory explanation what is wrong with the seat you
> received. The carbon seat is supposed to be lighter and stronger at the same time. My best guess
> is that they tried to cheat out a layer of carbon hoping that nothing will go wrong. Please find a
> way to make a snapshot of the damage and I'll do my best to provide you with a replacement seat.
>
> The idea sounds reasonably, however, the carbon seat never should have failed. The only possible
> damage one would expect is if the seat is smashed by a heavy stroke of a car or such vehicle, but
> otherwise it should remain intact.
>
> About the paint: Looks I really a have a serious problem with the subcontractor. He claims he did
> everything as usual and agreed. I have no reason not to believe you and now I'm not sure how to
> compensate you for the problem. As you might have seen, I already removed the Schwalbe City
> Marathon tires from the offer list on my site, even though I received no other complaint. I fear
> I'll have to remove the carbon seat and custom paint as well from the offer or look for new
> subcontractors. Lack of images to document the damages makes it harder for me because it's my word
> against theirs, I claim there is some damage that never should have occurred, they say it's not
> true, and that I'm only trying to get something out of them...
>
> PS. Sorry for my delayed response, family problems.
>
> Sincerely, Robert Stein mailto:[email protected] web: http://www.steintrikes.com
>
> 11/24/03 After repeated requests, Mr. Stein claims to be broke, & seeking a buyer. I have
> repeatedly requested Mr. Stein to do his utmost to have his INDEPENDENT SUBCONTRACTING SEAT
> MFG. REPLACE A CLEARLY DEFECTIVE SEAT.
>
> This has been met with absolutely no response, and (I trust) is unacceptable to all of us who
> appreciate honorable work & responsible customer service.
>
> Michael Talley Talley Trans, Inc.

 

[Carol Hague]

Hellbent Rick <[email protected]> wrote:

> Risto,
>
> Yes, I tried it today and it was up and running. I wish Robert all the best, and hope he can get
> these small problems sorted out.

Robert posted to the trikes list today to say that he has not "left the building".

--
Carol Hague Westcountry Recumbents http://www.trikescdrom.com Feet first on three wheels.

 

[Hellbent Rick]

Carol,

Too read his remark on the trike list. Since not all people engage on the Usenet, I gave Robert a
copy of Mike's open letter.

Rick Horwitz "Carol Hague" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1g54vb8.7oet13esbtmoN%[email protected]...
> Hellbent Rick <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Risto,
> >
> > Yes, I tried it today and it was up and running. I wish Robert all the best, and hope he can get
> > these small problems sorted out.
>
> Robert posted to the trikes list today to say that he has not "left the building".
>
> --
> Carol Hague Westcountry Recumbents http://www.trikescdrom.com Feet first on three wheels.