$1200 decision
- Thread starter Shane422
- Start date
I was kidding of course. gerardbjr, you are at least consistent...dead wrong.
For purpose of discussion, material matters more than frame geometry, because we are considering bikes with equally evolved frame geometry which of course is not the same geometry between materials but optimized relative to each material. Each material has a very distinct performance envelope and feel. There is also some variablility with the family of steels out there in terms of carbon content which affects their yield strength and companion wall thickness and hence ride characteristics and to a less degree Aluminum and Carbon Fiber. There is a reason why stereotypes exist...because they are true. You can dress them up a bit but not dramatically alter their native tendency. I may be giving you too much credit but my sense is you are either a cook or a gardener....you certainly aren't very mechanical. Now run along down to your LBS and get your brake cable adjusted...you can determine which one by squeezing either handle...lol.
George
For purpose of discussion, material matters more than frame geometry, because we are considering bikes with equally evolved frame geometry which of course is not the same geometry between materials but optimized relative to each material. Each material has a very distinct performance envelope and feel. There is also some variablility with the family of steels out there in terms of carbon content which affects their yield strength and companion wall thickness and hence ride characteristics and to a less degree Aluminum and Carbon Fiber. There is a reason why stereotypes exist...because they are true. You can dress them up a bit but not dramatically alter their native tendency. I may be giving you too much credit but my sense is you are either a cook or a gardener....you certainly aren't very mechanical. Now run along down to your LBS and get your brake cable adjusted...you can determine which one by squeezing either handle...lol.
George
I know this thread wasn't meant to be about frame materials, but I'm going to have to back you up on this one.biker7 said:
Right now I'm looking across the room at a Cannondale (6000 series Aluminum) and a TiSport (3/2.5 Titanium). The frames are nearly identical geometrically. The Cannondale is a bit smaller, with a slightly shorter top tube with a larger diameter, and steeper seat stays (It's a 3.0). The frames are about the same weight, and are on pretty much the same wheels stiffness wise. Both bikes feel about the same in terms of power transfer and response to crank input.
The frequency responses of the two bikes differ by an order of magnitude. To the point where the time lag on the TiSport was disorienting at first.
A great observation artmichalek...thanks for your input. Ti hasn't even been discussed and of course it is a formidable material. Some may wonder why the two bikes would weigh the same as Al and Ti materials are dramatically different in yield strength...Ti is much stronger so in theory one would think Ti wall thickness could be dramatically reduced to derive the same strength frame...but it is much more than that. Ti does not have as much advantage because wall thickness relative to its density has to be increased to compensate for lack of modulus (elasticity) which gives the frame its overall spine and hence your asute comparison to a similar Al geometry bike.
George
George
The Trek Pilot series of bikes has a more comfortable frame setup (mostly in the handles I believe). So if you like a more upright seated position for riding it would be a good choice. 105 versus ultegra if you are just out riding for excercise and not racing probably won't make a huge difference in your life. If you plan on keeping it until you are older and plan on taking care of it, then of course the most comfortable ride for you is the best way to go. This is of course my opinion and if it will make the others happy I will claim to be a NASA materials researcher.
I just picked up a 2004 Jamis Quest for $1200. Early days yet but so far so good. The whole steel v. alum thing got kind of confusing for a newbie but since I considered ride comfort an important factor felt I couldn't go too wrong with steel. The components on the Quest (mostly Ultegra) seemed unbeatable at this price point. Only possible negative so far is wheels seem a little flexy but that could be just that I'm new to road bikes or relatively heavy (215 lbs).
Going back to stereotypes I guess. Titanium has a reputation for being crazy expensive, which is generally true. In addition to being an expensive raw material, it's also very expensive to handle and fabricate. The reason my two frames are the same weight is because the TiSport has straight gauge tubes. You can knock off another pound by butting the tubes, but that ends up costing a few thousand dollars more.biker7 said:
On a side note before I get flamed for bringing titanium into a discussion of $1200 bikes, I was able to put my TiSport together for a little under $1500 with Veloce 9. I realize that I was in the right place at the right time to get most of the parts, but it can be done.
This is not the place to get into this argument, but I never said that the frame material has no effect on ride characteristics. What I am trying to say is that people tend to make broad statements such as "Al gives a harsh ride" or "Ti is soft and whippy" or "steel gives a smooth ride" but these are false generalizations. You might want to check out Sheldon Browns site (http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html) where he discusses it and agrees that "Frame stiffness (or the lack of it) doesn't have as much effect on ride quality as many people would lead you to believe." Carbon is a whole different story, and I agree it is superior in many ways, but not necesarily because it gives a better ride quality.
By the way. I have B.S. in Mech Engineering. I don't and never have practiced it, and I am sure you know more about M.E. than me, but M.E. and Materials Science are not the same thing. Also, you shouldn't knock other professions such as cooking and gardening.
By the way. I have B.S. in Mech Engineering. I don't and never have practiced it, and I am sure you know more about M.E. than me, but M.E. and Materials Science are not the same thing. Also, you shouldn't knock other professions such as cooking and gardening.
gerardbjr...a little friendly advice. You never want to make a blanket comment that all afore mentioned posts are BS without a substantive rebuttal which you never surmounted. That's about as low as you can get and I shouldn't even have to write this...a very basis courtesy on a public forum. If you want to participate on the board, please try to be more civil. You never want to say what you said anyway even with some good reasons to back up your disagreement. Simply state why you disagree without slamming anybody. It could be argued that material discussion should work its way into this thread as Shane is making a big decision and frame material is a pivot ingredient of the equation. Frame stiffness and energy attenuation which translates to feel are not the same thing and often confused.
Also I don't knock gardeners or cooks...reread my post. I try to respect all people but have struggled with that rule based upon what you have written.
George
Also I don't knock gardeners or cooks...reread my post. I try to respect all people but have struggled with that rule based upon what you have written.
George
I tired to look at the Jamis today, but I'm in central Iowa and the only LBS that carries them is so small that they only had a few Jamis bikes built up. None were remotely close to my size either. The Quest seems really nice, but I won't buy a bike without riding it. I may have to make a run to the Twin Cities to get on one though.rothar said:
Despite all the opinions floating around here, you're not gonna get a "crappy" bike in your price range. I would stay with a local shop, as long as you find one that has a bike you like. If they have to order it, so be it, but the convenience of having the shop you bought your bike at close by outweighs a lot of things.
They day I got my bike, I took it out for a ride, and found that the shifting was off a bit, so I turned around, took the 5 minute ride to the shop, which fixed the shifting on the spot as well as some other fine tuning.
Your order of priorities should look something like this:
1) good fit
2) good LBS
3) components
4) whatever else
Stay local, help out the hometown bike shops.
They day I got my bike, I took it out for a ride, and found that the shifting was off a bit, so I turned around, took the 5 minute ride to the shop, which fixed the shifting on the spot as well as some other fine tuning.
Your order of priorities should look something like this:
1) good fit
2) good LBS
3) components
4) whatever else
Stay local, help out the hometown bike shops.
Shane422 said:
As mentioned earlier the Jamis Quest is a great value and has a very nice road geometry...a great cruising bike and very comfortable with its steel construction...hard to beat for the money. I too am looking around for a road bike and have found a Giant OCR Composite 3 in Large I will try to ride within the next week. If you can squeeze another $3-400 or so...consider adding it to your list as it is carbon and it touted to have an excellent ride and generally considered a very good value and therefore in pretty high demand relative to short supply so far. They aren't easy to find in Michigan. The other bike I am looking at which is also hard to find...some say Trek is sitting on their supply to stir demand 
... is the new Trek Pilot 5.0 which comes in about $100 more than the Trek 5000 or around $2100 or so. There seems to be a growing consensus amoung many shops I have spoken with that the new comfort geometry will predominate and flat bar bikes with aggressive geometries will be more reserved for racers and competitive cyclists.
Good Luck,
George
... is the new Trek Pilot 5.0 which comes in about $100 more than the Trek 5000 or around $2100 or so. There seems to be a growing consensus amoung many shops I have spoken with that the new comfort geometry will predominate and flat bar bikes with aggressive geometries will be more reserved for racers and competitive cyclists.Good Luck,
George
Go for the Felt. Felt's are great bikes. (Value and Quality.) The new Ultegra 10 speed is also awesome. It's got great crisp shifting, and in my opion is as good, or better than DA 10. (Considering Value) Felt's are also pretty comfortable, and should last you six years.
M
M
Well I've ridden nearly everything in my price range and I will be ordering the Jamis Quest this week. I drove 3 hrs to minneapolis to try one. No one in my area carried more than 1 or 2 Jamis bikes. Once I tried steel, nothing else felt right. The fact that this bike comes with Ultegra 9 spd was an added bonus. Everything else I looked at was 105. A close second place was the Lemond Croix de Fer. Thanks again for all the advice. It helped lead me to a better choice.
Similar threads
