175mm Cranks on Track?

Discussion in 'Track Racing' started by Shabby, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    Does anyone have any experience using 175mm cranks in mass start races? (ie. Not pursuits and time trials).

    I don;t spend enough time on my track bike to get used to the 165's. Both my other bikes have 175's and my legs have got used to them. I know conventional wisdom suggests that you use smaller cranks fo the track, but I find them really hard to get going and they've always felt too small for me.

    And preempting the obvious answers, I can spin the 175's at 160rpm on the road, so I could easily spin 175mm track cranks at high candences once the season starts.

    I just want to make sure they're not going to clip the banks on the steeper tracks.
     
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  2. drewjc

    drewjc New Member

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    175mm cranks are awfully long for massed start track races, and u would be surprised how fast u may need to spin them (i know track riders who can spin small gears on the road at over 200rpm with 170mm cranks) so u may have to gear up to race with guys on smaller cranks and this could be difficult in longer races. In saying this you shouldnt clip ur pedals on the banks of steeper tracks unless u r going slow like in a madison or sprint type event when u r not travelling fast enough. Have you thought about 170mm cranks as this is a size that lots of track riders are opting for. Im not sure what the other options are but to me 175mm are just too long to ride in massed start events unless you are extremely strong and can push massive gears to make up for the slower cadences.
     
  3. rickt

    rickt New Member

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    Obviously there is no need to go into the biomechanics of the crank lengths (which happens to be my forte) I can quite honestly say that, if by steeper tracks you mean Vodafone Arena, you would be more likely to slide down the banks before you got slow enough to hit your pedals. However on tracks suck as Coburg, which is so rough that I believe even water won't slide down the banks, it is quite conceivable that you may travel slow enough to hit the pedal. Then there is the question of the frame build, ie the elevation of the bottom bracket. Your only option would be to have a play one day down near the duck boards and see how slow you can go before hitting.
     
  4. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    Thanks Rick, that's the kind of answer I was looking for (you obvoiusly read my post). My concerns were Vodafone and Echuca, particularly when you dive up the banks to avoid crashes.

    The thing is, I don't want to spend the couple of hundred bucks on cranks just to find out they will make me stack. The ideal answer is to spend lots of time on the track bike, but it's not feasible to fit it into my life, and I want to race crits as well. Hence, last summer I was probably on my track bike 2 days a week so spinning the 165's was too differnet to the other bikes.


    I'd still be interested to hear from anyone who has raced mass start stuff (not pursuits/handicaps) with 175's.
     
  5. Zac

    Zac New Member

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    You could use 170's or 172.5's and it would work too. I use 175 on the road and 171's on the track and have no problem switching between the two bikes.
     
  6. king_matt87

    king_matt87 New Member

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    I use 17.5 and i hit my peadle even in a eam pursuit depends what ur bike is built for so in scratch aces i ahev to use 165mm or i hit the peadle At the Dune Gray Superadrome i cliped my 172.5 in a warm up eal bad dident come off but oww scary
     
  7. Zac

    Zac New Member

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    How steep is that track, I ride on a 45 degree track and I never clip my pedal.
     
  8. rickt

    rickt New Member

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    I'd be interested to know where the 45 degree track is. The steepest trck in Australia is 43 degrees at Vodafone Arena in Melbourne. The track mentioned in the message by king_matt87, Dunc Gray Velodrome, is the Sydney Olympic Velodrome and is 42 degrees.
     
  9. king_matt87

    king_matt87 New Member

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    The Dune gray supadrome is on adelaide SA
     
  10. rickt

    rickt New Member

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    The Adelaide Superdrome is called exactly that, and is certainly in Adelaide. It doesn't, however carry the name of Dunc Gray. The Dunc Gray Velodrome is in "Carysfield Road Bass Hill NSW 2197. The website for proof is at http://www.duncgrayvelodrome.com
    The Adelaide Super-Drome can be found at http://www.recsport.sa.gov.au/superdrome.shtml

    Having been at the opening of the Adelaide track as a guest of the Australian Cycling Federation and having met the track designer, Mr Ron Webb, I THINK the facts are pretty right.
     
  11. Zac

    Zac New Member

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    The track I was talking about is the Superdrome in Texas USA. Go to www.Superdrome.com
     
  12. king_matt87

    king_matt87 New Member

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    yer the main reason for not runing 175 cranks is scaping on banks but if u have a good well made track frame teh b/b normaly has enough clearence for 175 and longer. pusuit bik u could run like 190mm cranks if u wanted provided u didn't go u the banks.
     
  13. Kylie-Anne

    Kylie-Anne New Member

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    Rickt,
    I'm a little slow at defending the coburg track, but I must say "saying Coburg is so rough that even water won't slide down it's banks" is just a little too much don't you think!! I'm not sure if your a member of LV or Warr at the moment, but in comparison to the so called track that LV has, I'm not sure that you should really be bagging out Coburg. At least Coburg has banks for water to run off!!
    By the way, I'm not sure if you have put two and two together yet, but you may remember me (almost sounds like a simpson's line) as the junior you coached many years ago....small world hey:)

     
  14. rickt

    rickt New Member

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    Hello Kylie
    Yes, knowing who Steve the administrator is, as soon as I saw your name and the "moderator" title I made the correct assumption as to your identity. Anyway while I commend your loyalty to your new club you must remember that to make comparisons, they must be relevant, ie concrete versus concrete, or road bitumen versus road bitumen (Moe's old surface). In my 34 years of track racing I have ridden on every CONCRETE velodrome in Victoria, and several interstate. After all is said and done, Coburg's surface is the most abrasive of the lot. It is even worse than the OLD Warragul track was before it was pulled down in the late 1980's. As to the question of track surface, I am a member of Warragul and am proud to say that the only track I know of in Victoria which rivals Warragul in texture and smoothness is Maryborough. However your comment about the Moe track being flat isn't exactly accurate. Like any track the angle of the banking should be appropriate to the size (tightness) of the corners. With the Moe track being 506m around obviously the banking only needs to be shallow. The Moe track has banking of approximately 10deg. Which is perfect even for high speeds in excess of 60km/h. As to the track surface, it has recently been resurfaced with hotmix and is now less abrasive than the Coburg surface. Unfortunately when concrete surfaces erode they become very abrasive and through the passage of time, without constant washing, the erosion WILL happen. As it has with the Coburg track. While there are some trackies (although only a few) who like the shape of Coburg's track, the vast majority of us don't like its shape at all. It is very much like the W.A. indoor track, which is too tight in the corners and the transitions into and out of the straights are too sharp. That is why, in the last 10 years or so, there hasn't been any support from other clubs for important racing to be held at Coburg. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings.
     
  15. luke1972

    luke1972 New Member

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    Hi,

    As a cycling legend with 30 odd years of racing you would be aware that the French,German,English, Russian and American junior world's teams trained at Coburg last year in preparation for the world junior titles and did not complain about it.

    I am not sure which world title you won, but some riders have won world titles using Coburg's track.

    It was also used as a training venue for the world master's games.

    The track may not be the best, but it is good enough for the best to use.
     
  16. fondy2004

    fondy2004 New Member

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    Hi,

    At least you can actually use Coburg's track!! Unlike Vodafone, where most of the time it is a tennis centre or concert arena and it is supposed to cost $17000 or something ridiculous to switch it.

    There is a new track being built in Northcote also but you will probably have to talk to your bank manager before you can ride on this one.

    Perhaps "rickt" if your arse is so tender that it is too rough for you, you could put some mountain bike tyres on your track bike and use them!!!
     
  17. rickt

    rickt New Member

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    OK

    To each of you neanderthals who seem to have taken my comments about Coburg's track surface personally. At no stage have I ever insinuated or stated outright that I, personally, have ever won a major championship. In fact I have always readily acknowledged to anyone in discussion that I have only ever been just one of the guys making up the numbers. So there was absolutely no need for disparaging personal comments. I merely stated the facts without prejudice or emotion.

    As to the track being used for training for major events, well gee wizz, how many tracks are there in Victoria with similar banking to Vodafone (thinking, thinking), oh yes, 1. Which track is that? Coburg. So where else are these teams going to train if they can't get onto Vodafone when it suits them, maybe they could fly to Sydney and train on Dunc Grey. Of course they'll use Coburg. The same applies to the people who have trained on it for the Worlds in years gone by. I never said it wasn't a good training venue. My comments have only been directed towards racing. Especially when event times count, unfortunately the track surface causes reletively slow times, which are not good for crowd enjoyment or qualification for seedings for national titles.

    At no stage have I said that the track surface was bumpy. When I said the track surface was rough I was referring to the texture (abrasiveness) of the surface, which is waht causes a track to be slow. I have never had, nor has anyone I have spoken to, any complaints about the "bumpyness" of the track, hence the reason for not saying it was bumpy. Therefore comments about a soft arse are so misplaced it is ridiculous.
    You (as you well know) are perfectly correct about the bull____ cost to use Vodafone, but it seems I need to remind you that access to the track was never part of the discussion so it is irrelevant to what was being discussed.

    All this blew up from what was originally a (very much) tongue in cheek comment to someone asking about 175mm cranks on steep tracks. This was followed up by a bit of friendly banter between two old friends (me being the old one). But the excessively parochial attitudes of you guys have blown it out of all proportion.

    Come on guys get past the emotion, be analytical and think a bit.
     
  18. luke1972

    luke1972 New Member

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    Hi Neanderthal 1 here,

    Guess you should have done a spell check when you highlighted "reletively".

    As a guest of Cycling Australia, and an expert on tracks, with a forte in biomechanics I assumed you must have been a cycling legend. Sorry my mistake.

    I'm relatively stupid for a neandeful.

    :)
     
  19. rickt

    rickt New Member

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    Merely an AIS "satellite" (yes maybe spaced out like a satellite) coach at the time (too much politics at that level for me to stay at it). I would dearly love to have been an elite athlete myself but unfortunately my biomechanics are actually more suited to weight lifting.
     
  20. Zac

    Zac New Member

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    To quote the great Mr. King "can't we all just (puase) get along?
     
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