hey guys was just browsing this thread as i have a raleigh bike with this 18-23 tubing an with a good set of mavic wheels and a decent light crank this frame is just as light as my ellis briggs 531 and lighter than my aluminium bike that i have although all my bike have been upgraded to 16 speed which obviously adds weight when you have got your saddle back with all the x s in and your water and yourself this 18-23 is just as light as a 531 anyday i find the 18-23 better to ride than my 531 mo enjoyable smoother and better on the bendy bits a bit of strength isnt a bad thing and if all that cyclists these days are concened with is lighter bikes then your in the wrong sport all you need guys is a bit more stamina after all these bike 531 18-23 and the like all took part in big races years gone by and they still set the times and records that modern bikes have so maybe a bit more stamina is what ya really need not a lighter bike in a bit guys