1982 DiaComp brakes very weak



J

John Forrest Tomlinson

Guest
On 20 Jul 2004 08:42:54 -0700, [email protected] (Bruce Jackson)
wrote:


[good info snipped]

>
>The real problem now is obselencence. In the 1980's it was conceivable
>to ride the same parts for a decade.


> Now with indexing and adding
>a new cog every few years everything gets obsolete long before it
>is worn out. When you have an orphaned drivetrain you may have to
>junk it as soon as one part breaks or is worn out since you may not
>be able to find a replacment.


It's certainly true that parts get obsolete more quickly nowadays,
assuming you want to use your parts at the top end of their
performance. But I think that even low-end stuff cobbled together
from different groups nowadays is better than old stuff. A modern
Shimano 8 speed derailler used with 8 speed Shimano friction shifters,
a modern (say 9 speed) cogset from another manufacturer (say SRAM or
even Campagnolo), 9 speed chain from any modern manufacture, with ,
modern housings and cables is going to perform better than a Super
Record/Regina set up ever did. And that's mixing and matching stuff
that is 'not compatible"

>Is cycling better or more fun than it was 20 years ago? Not that I can
>tell. Everything in the early 1980's worked well enough that it didn't
>detract from the enjoyment or sportingness of the ride. Brifters, and
>more cogs are only incremental improvements from the rider's point of
>view and detract from the simplicity and durability of the drivetrain.


In the US at least mountain bikes and hybrids are way more appealing
to beginner than stuff from the 1980s. Integrated shifting/braking is
also much more appealing to beginner. They certainly make it less
scary for such riders. Tires are better. Low gearing is easier to
achive with double chainrings w/o big gaps in shifting. For me at
least that's really nice -- I had a triple for awhile in the 1980s and
don't miss it. These all make cycling more fun. At the high-end,
racing equipment is better too -- less blown shifts and such.

I have to say I find phrase like "detract from the simplicity" funny.
A lot of the parts I used in the 1980s -- like Maillard freewheels
and Campanolog shifters and Modolo brakes -- sucked. They they didn't
wear out so fast -- they were bad from the beginning so we didn't
notice.

JT



>It is debatable if dual pivot brakes are actually an improvment, they
>have higher mechanical advantage so they don't require as much effort
>but they have to be adjusted closer to the rim and don't track a damaged
>wheel as well. Aero wheels may shave seconds off time trials but are of
>dubious value for training or recreational rides.
 
E

Evan Evans

Guest
[email protected] (Bruce Jackson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > It's simply not true that cycling is more expensive now than it was in
> > the 1980s. You can buy bikes for less money in real dollars that work
> > better than material back then. Even a "serious bike." And they'll
> > last just as long in terms of providing equal performance.

>
> Here are some prices best I can remember them from circa 1984
>
> Columbus SL bike with Campy SR parts: $1,500
> Clement Criterium Cotton sewups $30
> Vittoria CX sewups $45
> Several decent training sewups were ~$10
> Michelin Supercomp clinchers $10
> SunTour New Winner freewheel $35
> Sedisport chain $5 (when you buy by the box)
> Skinshorts most were $10 - $40 depending on quality
>
> Thinking in terms of adjusted dollars.
>
> You can get a pretty nice bike for $2,739.
>
> You can still get good hand made sewups for $55-$82 (I assuem anyway)
> but I don't know of any $18 sewups worth riding any more (I haven't
> been shoping for them though)
>
> Clinchers have gone up more than infation. Good clinchers are more
> than $18 and while they are pretty colors now they don't work as well
> as the old black ones and they wear more quickly.
>
> You can get gear clusters for $64 though today all you get are cogs
> since the freewheel is built into the hub. I'm pretty sure that
> individual cogs are more now though I don't remember what they cost
> back then.
>
> Chains have gone up a lot. Most people spend $20-$40 on chains now
> and they don't last as long now since they are narrower. Chains used
> to be cheap enough to throw away when they got dirty (and most of the
> racers I knew bought Sedis chains by the box and did this).
>
> $18-$73 is the range most shorts fall into today best I can tell.
>
> > Sure, maybe "the best" stuff is more expensive now, but that's not
> > comparing apples to apples as the best stuff now is way way way
> > better.

>
> While bikes are pretty similar in cost, consumables (tires, chains,
> cogs) have gone up more quickly than inflation.
>
> The real problem now is obselencence. In the 1980's it was conceivable
> to ride the same parts for a decade. Now with indexing and adding
> a new cog every few years everything gets obsolete long before it
> is worn out. When you have an orphaned drivetrain you may have to
> junk it as soon as one part breaks or is worn out since you may not
> be able to find a replacment.
>
> Is cycling better or more fun than it was 20 years ago? Not that I can
> tell. Everything in the early 1980's worked well enough that it didn't
> detract from the enjoyment or sportingness of the ride. Brifters, and
> more cogs are only incremental improvements from the rider's point of
> view and detract from the simplicity and durability of the drivetrain.
> It is debatable if dual pivot brakes are actually an improvment, they
> have higher mechanical advantage so they don't require as much effort
> but they have to be adjusted closer to the rim and don't track a damaged
> wheel as well. Aero wheels may shave seconds off time trials but are of
> dubious value for training or recreational rides.



How in the 80's could you ride the same stuff for decades?
 
A

Art Harris

Guest
StarryMan wrote:
> Definitely the best route for
> this original post writer is to swap out the brake pads. The caveat is
> the cost of some of the really good brake markets from 3rd parties.
> Have you seen the prices? And then there's the adjustment such as
> usual alignment and toe-in.


The salmon Kool Stop Continentals cost only $5.95/pair. They're easy
to install, stop great, last a long time, and won't pick up grip. What
more could you want?

Art Harris
 
B

Bruce Jackson

Guest
[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> How in the 80's could you ride the same stuff for decades?


Because I still ride most of the stuff I bought in the '80's including
stuff that was already over 10 years old. That is why it was such a good
era for cycling. Old stuff wasn't obsolete except perhaps 120mm rear
spacing which was easily fixed with steel frames and standard reach
brakes and arches though drop bolts allowed us to put short reach brakes
from the 80's on older frames. I don't think that many parts I buy today
will still be useful 20 or 30 years from now. Finding drivetrain parts
for a 5 year old road bike someone gave me requires me to go to Loose
Screws or ebay.
--
Bruce Jackson - Sr. Systems Programmer - DMSP, a M/A/R/C Group company
 
P

pinnah

Guest
[email protected] (Evan Evans) wrote:
>How in the 80's could you ride the same stuff for decades?


Well, it just wouldn't die.

I had an '82 or '83 600 series Trek. The only "modern" change to the
bike was a Phil Wood sealed bottom bracket that I added because I
didn't want to mess with that on my coast-coast ride in '86.
Everything else on that bike was early 80s technology. I rode that
bike until '96 and would be riding it today if it didn't get driven
under a car port (I wasn't driving but I was in the car!).

In contrast, I blew out the Shimano brifters on my replacement bike in
about 2 years only to find out that
a) they could not be repaired
b) replacement cost was over $150
c) my 7-speed drive train was already out of date

Pfft.

Actually, my biggest gripe about the 90s was the lack of choice in
road frames. You had your choice of 2: fat touring frames and race
frames. Nothing in between. Nice to see some club racers and sport
bikes making it back into the product line ups.

I admit, I do like index shifting in the rear and won't trade my spds
for old style cleats.


-- Dave
==============================================
"It is impossible, or not easy, to do noble acts
without the proper equipment."
Aristotle, <<Politics>>, 1323a-b, trans Jowett
==============================================
 
E

Evan Evans

Guest
Yes i hear what you guys are saying. I to have some 80's era bikes. i
got into cycling about 1980. I love those bikes. The quality &
workmanship of lugged steel frames & Sr/nr/c-record Campagnolo parts
will never be equilled!
 
H

Harris

Guest
Evan Evans <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes i hear what you guys are saying. I to have some 80's era bikes. i
> got into cycling about 1980. I love those bikes. The quality &
> workmanship of lugged steel frames & Sr/nr/c-record Campagnolo parts
> will never be equilled!


I like the '80s vintage frames, but equipped with modern drivetrains.

Art Harris