1996 TdF Winner - how does cycling keep its records?

[JRMDC]

So who won the 1996 TdF? And how do we think about cycling records now? Do we write them off? Do we leave them in place but put a huge asterisk by every name or on the title of the list?

Or are we dropping interest in this sport so the question matters about as much as some lost local language/dialect in some remote valley?

I'm reminded of the debate over home-run records in American baseball. Not just Bonds today, but McGwire, who legally took something (don't recall what, andrestinone, something like that) which was not against the rules (but should have been, baseball has not been strict on this stuff). It's not perfectly analogous, because EPO was against the rules, but in the sense that there were many athletes with access to PEDs, so in cycling the norm was use even if it was not allowed, it isn't clear who should be considered "best" at any point in time.

 

[helmutRoole2]

According to Jose Conseco, McGuire was also running a bevy of steroid cycles. And McGuire pleading the fifth in front of Congress says it all.

Perfect analogy, actually. Yeah, you've got to run the asterisk.

 

[Mtventoux]

Was EPO illegal in 1996 under UCI rues? Was there even a way to test for it? Is there some sort of statue of limitations? I don't think it would be fair to strip Riis when others were doped and just have not admitted to it.

 

[strummer_fan]

Was EPO illegal in 1996 under UCI rues? Was there even a way to test for it? Is there some sort of statue of limitations? I don't think it would be fair to strip Riis when others were doped and just have not admitted to it.

Pat McQuaid (UCI Chief) reported said that it is over 8 years and they won't strip Riis of the title. I don't know if anyone from the ASO has commented.

 

[kennf]

It would be kind of silly to strip Riis of the win and award it to someone else, since the finishing order was (1) Riis, (2) Ulrich, (3) Virenque (Festina), and (4) Dufeaux (Festina). Kind of like clash of the doping titans. I feel the same way about the 2006 Tour. Perero and Kloden clean? Riiiiight.

 

[DiabloScott]

It would be kind of silly to strip Riis of the win and award it to someone else, since the finishing order was (1) Riis, (2) Ulrich, (3) Virenque (Festina), and (4) Dufeaux (Festina). Kind of like clash of the doping titans. I feel the same way about the 2006 Tour. Perero and Kloden clean? Riiiiight.

I think all drug busts should be punished with license stripping and never title stripping... it's just too messy to get involved in and it's not necessary. Floyd keeps his TdF win but gets banned for 2/4. Bjarne and Jan get to keep their titles too. Everyone who ever doped can come clean without fear of having their palmares altered. Record books do not have to be re-written. If they can figure out how to get the test results back before the race is over then they can prevent a win, but otherwise the ban is punishment enough. The testing has to get a lot better though because the only thing that will stop doping is the certainty that you'll get caught.

 

[JRMDC]

???

career path:
work hard and dope
win TdF
experience financial and personal benefits afterwards
admit, two years later, stop racing and relax on beach

 

[ad9898]

It would be kind of silly to strip Riis of the win and award it to someone else, since the finishing order was (1) Riis, (2) Ulrich, (3) Virenque (Festina), and (4) Dufeaux (Festina). Kind of like clash of the doping titans. I feel the same way about the 2006 Tour. Perero and Kloden clean? Riiiiight.

Agreed, Riis should keep his title, purely for the fact that the best of rest were also juiced, although Ullrich was by far the strongest in that race.

 

[poulidor]

???

career path:
work hard and dope
win TdF
experience financial and personal benefits afterwards
admit, two years later, stop racing and relax on beach

Like Flo-Jo...
She "probably" doped for a short period, settled an unbeatable welt record and retired.

 

[Serafino]

Like Flo-Jo...
She "probably" doped for a short period, settled an unbeatable welt record and retired.

And died at 36 years of age. Not much of a "retirement".

There's the real sad story. Health destroyed especially for those who aren't multi-million dollar earning stars but only domestiques who think that no dope means being out on the street.

 

[meb]

According to Jose Conseco, McGuire was also running a bevy of steroid cycles. And McGuire pleading the fifth in front of Congress says it all.

Perfect analogy, actually. Yeah, you've got to run the asterisk.

Pleading the fifth???--When explicitly asked if he was asserting the fifth he flat out told Congress: " I'm not here to talk about the past. I'm here to be positive about this subject." He flagrantly refused to assert the fifth whilst refusing to answer the question.

 

[helmutRoole2]

I think it was something like, "On advice from my counsel I will not answer that question," when asked point blank if he had ever done steroids.

 

[sopas]

I think all drug busts should be punished with license stripping and never title stripping... it's just too messy to get involved in and it's not necessary. Floyd keeps his TdF win but gets banned for 2/4. Bjarne and Jan get to keep their titles too. Everyone who ever doped can come clean without fear of having their palmares altered. Record books do not have to be re-written. If they can figure out how to get the test results back before the race is over then they can prevent a win, but otherwise the ban is punishment enough. The testing has to get a lot better though because the only thing that will stop doping is the certainty that you'll get caught.

Tell that to Roberto Heras who lost his 4th Spanish Vuelta title!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

How about this? Get busted and loose your title under all scenarios. If the doper admits it, the title goes to the runner-up. If the doper doesn't admit it, then no title is awarded. I'm sure this would provide some peer pressure to come clean. Or, I could be wrong.

I think all drug busts should be punished with license stripping and never title stripping... it's just too messy to get involved in and it's not necessary. Floyd keeps his TdF win but gets banned for 2/4. Bjarne and Jan get to keep their titles too. Everyone who ever doped can come clean without fear of having their palmares altered. Record books do not have to be re-written. If they can figure out how to get the test results back before the race is over then they can prevent a win, but otherwise the ban is punishment enough. The testing has to get a lot better though because the only thing that will stop doping is the certainty that you'll get caught.

 

[meb]

I think it was something like, "On advice from my counsel I will not answer that question," when asked point blank if he had ever done steroids.

No, he said: "....My lawyers have advised me that I cannot answer these questions without jeopardizing my friends, my family, and myself."

When explicitly followed up with whether he was asserting his fifth amendment rights he said: "I'm not here to talk about the past. I'm here to be positive about this subject."