1st time Marathon training advice

The conventional wisdom is due a long run every other weekend
and increase its distance a little bit each time until you reach about
35-40
km. There are 21 weeks left until your marathon, or about ten long
runs. Since you've done 19 km, run 21, 23, 25, etc. Last long run
should be
no later than 16/9 (two weeks) for your marathon so you recover.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Hi

I've looked at a few posts and pages on the above, but thought I would
ask some more personalized advice:

Im looking to run Berlin 30/9. Goals A) finish in working order, B) If
possible in <4 hours

Generally I expect to keep bulk training in ~10 Km fractions.

My request is on advice on how often I should try longer distances,
and how ong they should be. And is shorter distances/intervals etc. a
priority?

My present training status is given below:

I am running approximately 30 Km/week, generally in 3 fractions ,
which works fine albeit I feel I should keep it at that for some weeks
due to an occasional soreness in a knee (only slight and during the
last Km's or cold - nothing serious but a signal nevertheless)

I ran 19 km hilly trail friday without any trouble and without being
pushed to limit - Heart rate 140-150 except last 5 Km, which was
higher since I could. Time was 1:47.

If you're feeling stress (the knee's complaints) at 30 km/week,
you'll feel even more as you go to 50-80 km/week and 4-5 runs
each week. Try to find a doctor, coach, or running club, to
take a look at your running form, to suggest exercises for your
knee, and to compare notes with on what exactly might be going on.

But, probably the first thing to do is check that your shoes are
not old. Old = much over about 6 months, or you've run more than
500-800 km in them. These are rough approximations, not precision
numbers.

How long have you been running 30 km/week?

In terms of time guesses, a rule of thumb is for a first marathon
to be about 5 times your 10k race time. For your thoughts of a
4:00 marathon, you'd want -- already -- to be comfortable with running
a 48 minute 10k. For a better prepared and experienced, marathoner,
you might need only about a 51:30 10k (also give or take).

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

(Robert Grumbine) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Hi

Quoted message said:

I've looked at a few posts and pages on the above, but thought I would
ask some more personalized advice:

Quoted message said:

Im looking to run Berlin 30/9. Goals A) finish in working order, B) If
possible in <4 hours

Quoted message said:

Generally I expect to keep bulk training in ~10 Km fractions.

Quoted message said:

My request is on advice on how often I should try longer distances,
and how ong they should be. And is shorter distances/intervals etc. a
priority?

Quoted message said:

My present training status is given below:

Quoted message said:

I am running approximately 30 Km/week, generally in 3 fractions ,
which works fine albeit I feel I should keep it at that for some weeks
due to an occasional soreness in a knee (only slight and during the
last Km's or cold - nothing serious but a signal nevertheless)

Quoted message said:

I ran 19 km hilly trail friday without any trouble and without being
pushed to limit - Heart rate 140-150 except last 5 Km, which was
higher since I could. Time was 1:47.

If you're feeling stress (the knee's complaints) at 30 km/week,
you'll feel even more as you go to 50-80 km/week and 4-5 runs
each week. Try to find a doctor, coach, or running club, to
take a look at your running form, to suggest exercises for your
knee, and to compare notes with on what exactly might be going on.

But, probably the first thing to do is check that your shoes are
not old. Old = much over about 6 months, or you've run more than
500-800 km in them. These are rough approximations, not precision
numbers.

How long have you been running 30 km/week?

In terms of time guesses, a rule of thumb is for a first marathon
to be about 5 times your 10k race time. For your thoughts of a
4:00 marathon, you'd want -- already -- to be comfortable with running
a 48 minute 10k. For a better prepared and experienced, marathoner,
you might need only about a 51:30 10k (also give or take).

--
Robert Grumbinehttp://www.radix.net/~bobg/Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you for your opinions.
I have run 30km/week 4-5 weeks, up from 10-20 for 8 month approx.
Yes, my shoes should and will be changed - I previously noticed the
'suspension' has collapsed ~2 mm judging from the fold on the side.
I don't feel nearly enough pain in the knee to be worried otherwise -
just tried to avoid a hard training increase proposal, since this is
not the time. Theres no sign of pain except cold (<1km) and >15km and
even then its just the 'careful' sign.
(I was a regular runner some years ago on the 10-12 km orienteering
distances - its been a while, but I feel fairly confident its not a
signals of overtraining - but it may become so if I increase training,
hence I plan to maintain at this level for four more weeks or so)

I am ok running 10 km in 48 min, so that part is fulfilled :-)

Two questions more:
35-40 km seems to me like a long distance, especially 2 weeks before
event. My (10yo orienteering based) intuition would say max 30km min.
1 month before with more, but shorter runs up to 1 week before
followed by rest. How do the rest of you feel?

And intervals? will it be worth it? (Its so **** hard training
intervals :-)

Best regards
Ivan

In article <[email hidden]>,

joe said:

(Robert Grumbine) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

<[email hidden]> wrote:

[trimming]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In terms of time guesses, a rule of thumb is for a first marathon
to be about 5 times your 10k race time. For your thoughts of a
4:00 marathon, you'd want -- already -- to be comfortable with running
a 48 minute 10k. For a better prepared and experienced, marathoner,
you might need only about a 51:30 10k (also give or take).

Thank you for your opinions.

Keep in mind that they are opinion. Reality ... I don't know.

Quoted message said:

I have run 30km/week 4-5 weeks, up from 10-20 for 8 month approx.

That looks like a fairly rapid increase from the 20-30. Another
rule of thumb is to not increase your distance by more than 10% in
a week, and more typically 5% as a figure. A rapid increase
could also contribute to what you're feeling. If you level out
for a bit, and this is the reason, then it should resolve fairly
soon (days-couple weeks).

Quoted message said:

Yes, my shoes should and will be changed - I previously noticed the
'suspension' has collapsed ~2 mm judging from the fold on the side.
I don't feel nearly enough pain in the knee to be worried otherwise -
just tried to avoid a hard training increase proposal, since this is
not the time. Theres no sign of pain except cold (<1km) and >15km and
even then its just the 'careful' sign.
(I was a regular runner some years ago on the 10-12 km orienteering
distances - its been a while, but I feel fairly confident its not a
signals of overtraining - but it may become so if I increase training,
hence I plan to maintain at this level for four more weeks or so)

Ok, I'm just reminding you to carry out your plan.

Quoted message said:

I am ok running 10 km in 48 min, so that part is fulfilled :-)

Two questions more:
35-40 km seems to me like a long distance, especially 2 weeks before
event. My (10yo orienteering based) intuition would say max 30km min.
1 month before with more, but shorter runs up to 1 week before
followed by rest. How do the rest of you feel?

There are many thoughts on this, but in general, the bulk seem
to come in favor of your last truly long run (whether that's 30 km
or 40 is a point of debate) being 3 weeks before the event. Some
people favor 2 weeks. I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting a
run of that class only a week before.

Then 2 weeks before, you cut both longest run and total weekly
distance by a good 30-50%, and in the last week before the race,
cut by another 50%.

In other words, your intuition is pretty much in line with
common marathoning wisdom.

Quoted message said:

And intervals? will it be worth it? (Its so **** hard training
intervals :-)

:-) I rather enjoy them. But that's me, and I'm more a miler
than a marathoner.

'worth it' is hard to say, but since your prime goal is to finish,
rather than time, and you don't like the intervals in the first place,
probably not. Intervals don't get you to the finish line; your
regular weekly mileage and the long runs do that. Speedwork
only improves the speed at which you reach the finish line -- and
even then, intervals aren't a high priority for marathoning.

For marathons, your speed work focuses more on things like
tempo runs, hill running, runs in which you finish the last
20% of a 10-20 km run at your marathon pace, and the like.

If you liked intervals, and they helped you get out training
more regularly, _then_ they'd be things to pay attention to.

But it's the regular training that'll get you all or most of
what you have said you want, not the intervals.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences