2 Q's: touring & Surly

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by James McGregor, Feb 9, 2004.

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  1. 2 questions relating to touring bikes:

    (1) Why is it that touring bikes so often have cantilever brakes? Ease of repair? Allowing
    larger tires?

    (2) Does anyone know when Surly's Long Haul Trucker is going to be in stores?

    Thanks. - James
     
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  2. I spoke to Surly, they said April or May. My only complaints are as follows:
    (1) 54cm and down are 26" wheels (they said to reduce wheel interference), and (2) the Pea soup
    green color. Other than that they appear to be among the few true loaded touring frames
    available.
     
  3. Jonathan Kaplan wrote:

    > I spoke to Surly, they said April or May. My only complaints are as fol=
    lows:
    > (1) 54cm and down are 26" wheels (they said to reduce wheel interferenc=
    e),

    For my money, 26" (559 mm) is THE size for loaded touring, whatever the=20 frame size. 700C (622 mm)
    is better for credit-card touring.

    Suitably sturdy tires and rims are available everywhere in this size.

    > and (2) the Pea soup green color. Other than that they appear to be amo=
    ng
    > the few true loaded touring frames available.

    I gotta agree there. I don't like any of the Surly colors except black.

    Sheldon "559 Is Good!" Brown +------------------------------------------------------------+
    | Tour on popular routes like the Oregon Coast you will see | just about anything with two wheels
    | out there, with any | amount of luggage strapped on in any conceivable way. | Everyone seems to
    | be having a good time doing it. | However, certain choices will reduce breakdowns, and | make the
    | trip less a project of transporting equipment, | and more one of enjoying the scenery and
    | cultures. | --Eric Salath=BB |
    +------------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  4. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email protected]>, James McGregor
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >2 questions relating to touring bikes:
    >
    >(1) Why is it that touring bikes so often have cantilever brakes? Ease of repair? Allowing larger
    > tires?

    _ Large tires, fenders, tradition, much greater braking power with standard road levers.

    _ Booker C. Bense

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  5. Phil Brown

    Phil Brown Guest

    >I spoke to Surly, they said April or May. My only complaints are as follows:
    >(1) 54cm and down are 26" wheels (they said to reduce wheel interference), and (2) the Pea soup
    > green color.

    What's wrong with 26"-I assume you mean 559mm-wheels? They have many advantages for touring bikes,
    starting with strength.. And a nice medium green is a most soothing color. Phil Brown
     
  6. Phil Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    : What's wrong with 26"-I assume you mean 559mm-wheels? They have many advantages for touring bikes,
    : starting with strength..

    not that much stronger -- unless you're talking real expedition, going to the amazon or off-road
    touring i wouldn't worry about it .. but i'd never buy a touring bike with 26" wheels for the simple
    reason that all my bikes are 700C and i like to swap wheels and share tires and tubes between all my
    bikes. when i'm not using my bike for touring i throw 23 or 25mm slicks on light road wheels and go
    on club ride type stuff. keeps it more versatile, imho.

    : And a nice medium green is a most soothing color.

    oooof. clearly they're a bit nuts over at surly.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  7. ] Phil Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : What's wrong with 26"-I assume you mean 559mm-wheels? They have many advantages for touring
    > : bikes, starting with strength..

    David Reuteler wrote:

    > not that much stronger -- unless you're talking real expedition, going to the amazon or off-road
    > touring i wouldn't worry about it .. but i'd never buy a touring bike with 26" wheels for the
    > simple reason that all my bikes are 700C

    I used to have the same attitude toward 700c when all of my bikes used 27 inch wheels. Turns out
    it's not really such a great reason.

    > and i like to swap wheels and share tires and tubes between all my bikes. when i'm not using my
    > bike for touring i throw 23 or 25mm slicks on light road wheels and go on club ride type stuff.
    > keeps it more versatile, imho.

    That's not what _loaaded_ touring bikes are about, but 25 mm slicks are readily available
    for 559 rims.

    If you have nice fast 700c bikes, why would you want to take your loaded tourer on a club ride?

    Sheldon "Lots Of Bikes, 305, 349, 406, 451, 559, 590, 622, 630 & 635 Wheels" Brown +--------------------------------------------
    +
    | All great truths begin as blasphemies. | --G. B. Shaw |
    +--------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
    9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  8. James McGregor asked:
    >
    >>2 questions relating to touring bikes:
    >>
    >>(1) Why is it that touring bikes so often have cantilever brakes? Ease of repair? Allowing larger
    >> tires?
    >
    Booker C. Bense added a whole bunch of cryptographic garbage while replying:
    >
    > _ Large tires,

    Yep.

    > fenders,

    Yup.

    > tradition,

    Uh-huh.

    > much greater braking power with standard road levers.

    Oops, shoulda quit while you were ahead!

    There's no inherent difference in the braking power, though this is a widely-held misapprehension.

    Sheldon "Three Out Of Four Ain't Bad" Brown +--------------------------------------+
    | Any event, once it has occurred, | can be made to appear inevitable | by a competent historian.
    | | --Lee Simonson |
    +--------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
    9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  9. Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    : That's not what _loaaded_ touring bikes are about, but 25 mm slicks are readily available for
    : 559 rims.

    speak for yourself. ;-)

    : If you have nice fast 700c bikes, why would you want to take your loaded tourer on a club ride?

    i don't, anymore. now i only have two, a track bike and a touring bike. but for various reasons i
    still have all the wheels and tires and cassettes and all of that is campag 130mm road. actually
    even when i had a road bike i preferred to use this bike for club rides. why? it's a lot more comfy
    than my road bike was on longer century-length rides. i basically sold the road bike because the
    touring bike did its job almost as well if not better. oh, and i'm an apartment dweller and move a
    lot. 3 bikes was really beginning to push it.

    that one single bike is a fantastic all-rounder. i've ridden it across the USA with a full load of
    panniers, off-road as a cyclocross bike, to work as a commuter and on club rides.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  10. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    [email protected] wrote:

    > _ ...... tradition,

    Er,no. my tourer has been around longer than cantilever brakes have ! it has Weinman centre pull
    brakes and mudguards.
     
  11. james-<< 2 questions relating to touring bikes:

    (1) Why is it that touring bikes so often have cantilever brakes? Ease of repair? Allowing larger
    tires? >><BR><BR>

    Clearance for tires and fenders.

    james-<< (2) Does anyone know when Surly's Long Haul Trucker is going to be in stores? >><BR><BR>

    No...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (2)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  12. Robert Canon

    Robert Canon Guest

    "David Reuteler" wrote
    > that one single bike is a fantastic all-rounder. i've ridden it across [France and Texas] with a
    > full load of panniers, off-road as a cyclocross bike, to work as a commuter and on club rides.

    That describes my touring bike with 559 wheels! Although, when I built up a fixed gear bike
    recently I was tempted to go 135 spacing and 559 rims for compatibility. The more I thought about
    it the more I wanted the fixie to be somewhat track bike based rather than SS MTB based so I went
    with 120 spacing and 700c rims, so far with no regrets. That might change if the first time I taco
    a rim is before I have a spare set of 700c wheels and I can't just swap in a spare 559 to get back
    on the road!
     
  13. >>_ ...... tradition,
    >
    MSeries wrote
    >
    > Er,no. my tourer has been around longer than cantilever brakes have ! it has Weinman centre pull
    > brakes and mudguards.

    Er, yes. Cantilever brakes go back to Oskar Barnack's screw-mount lens era. They were around long
    before Weinmann started making center-pull brakes.

    Now that I've cleared that up, let me address the more important "centre/center" issue:

    Generally, I'm bilingual in English, no problem with tyres/tires, mudguards/fenders,
    spanners/wrenches and the like.

    However, I do feel that, when writing in the English language, the English spelling "center" is more
    correct than the French spelling "centre."

    "Centre" is correct and phonetic in French, but not in English, in my not at all humble opinion.

    Just try pronouncing the latter syllable by itself: "er" or "re."

    I think the only reason the French spelling has survived in the U.K. is because most Brits will drop
    the "r" anyway, and pronounce it "cent-uh."

    If both the "r" and the "e" are silent, it doesn't much matter which sequence they're in.

    On this side of the Pond, however, we _do_ pronounce the "r" and having it before the "e"
    makes no sense.

    However, I must admit that my own city contains a village called "Newton Centre." I surmise that the
    namers of Newton's villages aspired to an air of gentility by using what they though of as a
    "British" spelling (though it's actually French.)

    Sheldno "Language Kvetching Is Fun!" Bronw +---------------------------------------------+
    | Whatever you say, say it with conviction. | --Mark Twain |
    +---------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
    9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  14. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    >>> _ ...... tradition,
    >>
    > MSeries wrote
    >>
    >> Er,no. my tourer has been around longer than cantilever brakes have
    >> ! it has Weinman centre pull brakes and mudguards.

    I stand corrected on the brakes front. I only started to notice them on tourers in the midy 1980s
    when mountain bikes came into being in the UK. Tourers of the day had cenre pulls.

    Regarding the language thing, I will never agree with you. Here in the UK 'centre' survives because
    thats what everyone was/is taught and what everyone reads in print and on road signs everyday. I
    have no problems with alternative names for things though. As for pronounciation it really depends
    on ones which English accent one has.

    FYI fenders over here are the big ropey/plastic things that are used to prevent ships from hitting
    the quayside, wrenches served the mead to men in medieval times - or are those wenches ;-)
     
  15. Dvt

    Dvt Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:
    > I don't like any of the Surly colors except black.

    The green and brown are not so hot, but I like my red/maroon/whatever-you-call-it Surly.

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu
     
  16. Chalo

    Chalo Guest

    Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Jonathan Kaplan wrote:
    > >
    > > (1) 54cm and down are 26" wheels (they said to reduce wheel interferenc
    > e),
    >
    > For my money, 26" (559 mm) is THE size for loaded touring, whatever the frame size. 700C (622 mm)
    > is better for credit-card touring.
    >
    > Suitably sturdy tires and rims are available everywhere in this size.

    I have done all my multi-day rides on 26" wheels. Given the choice however, I would choose 700c
    every time now that there are some real fat tire options available. (Schwalbe's 700x50 and 700x60
    Big Apples have changed my life.)

    Comparing tires in identical widths, 700c wheels ride _much_ nicer than 26". The worse the surface
    conditions, the more pronounced the difference becomes. And while there are beaucoups of stupid, anti-
    functional treads for 26" tires (like, all the ones at the Wallymart in Pissenschitt, MO), almost
    all 700c tires make some kind of sense for their purposes.

    Rim availability is not really an issue, because 48 hole rims are uncommon everywhere, and that is
    the smart spoke count for loaded touring.

    > > (2) the Pea soup green color.
    >
    > I gotta agree there. I don't like any of the Surly colors except black.

    My sweetheart doesn't like any of them except the green. And she's more stylish than we are.

    Chalo Colina
     
  17. Peter Storey

    Peter Storey Guest

    Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > However, I do feel that, when writing in the English language, the English spelling "center" is
    > more correct than the French spelling "centre."

    But it was always "centre" (Middle English, Old French) until us brash Americans decided otherwise.
    >
    > "Centre" is correct and phonetic in French, but not in English, in my not at all humble opinion.
    >
    > Just try pronouncing the latter syllable by itself: "er" or "re."

    Right. Same with "battle" and "bottle", but I haven't heard any votes to adopt "battel"
    and "bottel".
    >
    > I think the only reason the French spelling has survived in the U.K. is because most Brits will
    > drop the "r" anyway, and pronounce it "cent-uh."

    Until everyone started to sound like news-anchors from California, so did most New Englanders. But
    why am I telling YOU this.

    > If both the "r" and the "e" are silent, it doesn't much matter which sequence they're in.

    If both are silent, it's simply "cent".
    >
    > On this side of the Pond, however, we _do_ pronounce the "r" and having it before the "e" makes
    > no sense.

    Frankly, there's a lot to be said for the Slavic custom of dropping the silent (or barely
    pronounced) "e" and using the "r" by itself to represent the syllable. But if we were to do that,
    I'd have to learn to sign my name

    Petr Storey
     
  18. Frkrygow

    Frkrygow Guest

    Sheldon Brown wrote:

    > If you have nice fast 700c bikes, why would you want to take your loaded tourer on a club ride?

    ?? Why not?

    I see no disadvantage in riding my Cannondale loaded tourer (my "best bike") on a club ride, or any
    other ride.

    Sure, it's a couple pounds heavier than others' road bikes. But what the heck, I can still outclimb
    almost all of the club, and the weight makes no significant distance on the flat.

    Aside from that, what am I losing? No significant difference in rolling resistance or air
    resistance. (In fact, I regularly outcoast others.) I'm comfortable on long rides, probably more
    than on a road bike. I don't need super-quick criterium handling - in fact, I don't prefer it.

    All I'm giving up, IMO, is micro-adjust gear ratios, since my gear spread is greater and my old bike
    has fewer speeds. But that's never made a difference to me.

    --
    Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

    ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ---------------------- For a quality mail server, try
    SurgeMail, easy to install, fast, efficient and reliable. Run a million users on a standard PC
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  19. I wrote:
    >
    >> If you have nice fast 700c bikes, why would you want to take your loaded tourer on a club ride?
    >
    Frank Krygowski asked:
    >
    > ?? Why not?
    >
    > I see no disadvantage in riding my Cannondale loaded tourer (my "best bike") on a club ride, or
    > any other ride.
    >
    > Sure, it's a couple pounds heavier than others' road bikes. But what the heck, I can still
    > outclimb almost all of the club, and the weight makes no significant distance on the flat.
    >
    > Aside from that, what am I losing? No significant difference in rolling resistance or air
    > resistance. (In fact, I regularly outcoast others.) I'm comfortable on long rides, probably more
    > than on a road bike. I don't need super-quick criterium handling - in fact, I don't prefer it.
    >
    > All I'm giving up, IMO, is micro-adjust gear ratios, since my gear spread is greater and my old
    > bike has fewer speeds. But that's never made a difference to me.

    Then why do you own "nice fast 700c bikes?" When would you ride them if not on club rides?

    I certainly never meant to say that a good touring bike isn't suitable for club rides, but assuming
    one also owns sportier bikes, it doesn't make sense to me to make such use a major criterion in
    selecting a bike for _loaded_ touring.

    Sheldon "Often Late For Work 'Cause It Takes Me Too Long To Decide Which Bike To Ride" Brown
    +---------------------------------------------------------+
    | In skating over thin ice, our safety is in our speed. | --R.W. Emerson |
    +---------------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton,
    Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts
    shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  20. Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Sheldon "Often Late For Work 'Cause It Takes Me Too Long To Decide Which Bike To Ride" Brown

    some day, sheldon, i hope to know that feeling myself.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
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